why

[kungfu penguin]

during a demo i was a part of the instructor missed his block and proceeded to pound the crapola out of me to prove a point i threw the punch he missed and i paid for it i heard seagal does that to his stuntmen all the time i also knew a girl who would forget she was in a demo and think she was in a war! and litteraly eat you up you were limping for weeks after a demo with her! yikes!

 

[TigerCraneGuy]

I believe that some form of contact is essential during both demos and application practice (e.g. Kenpo technique line).

In my limited experience, contact:

1) Enables practitioners to test the effectiveness of techniques practiced in the air;

2) Ensures that when you actually hit something, your reverse punch, backfist, knife-hand etc. won't come apart like a cream puff;

3) Teaches the person on the receving end (the uke) to ride the shot and minimise injury (note: I don't mean stand there and take it, but 'roll' with the force of the blow);

4) Provides invaluable insight to the uke in that he or she can feel what it's like to be hit, and therefore, understand how to hit someone to achieve a similar effect.

Moreover, simulated attacks (the initial assault) should be as realistic as possible, otherwise you each other of the opportunity to test key attributes such as speed, power, timing and body mechanics. Instead of punching near the chest, really try to punch them IN the chest, but with deliberate control. This is how I learnt to execute the off-angling move in Leaping Crane; get hit a few times and you learn real fast, with only a bit of a sting and a bruised ego to show for it (shrug).

Lastly, I believe that injuries often occur when:

1) Either party (attacker, defender) loses control (in which case, they need to be read the riot act!);

2) Either party is not concentrating and does something completely unrehearsed (riot act again!); or

3) The uke does not dummy correctly (doesn't concave for a rib or stomach shot, doesn't leap back when kicked in the groin, doesn't move his or her leg out of the way of an incoming sidekick).

Just my two cents FWIW.

And oh yeah, imho, the girl who always forgets she's in a demo... she needs to be severely reprimanded. What we do is already dangerous enough; loss of control is therefore inexcusable.

TCG

 

[Danjo]

Hitting oneself and getting hit by others is different. Getting hit actually prepares you better.

You have to train to get past that "freeze" that occurs when you get hit unless you train to overcome it. This doesn't happen when you are conditioning yourself.

Also, the student needs to be confident that the technique you are showing him/her will work. Only way to do that is to let them feel it. Or at least enough of it to see it's effectiveness.

Plus, if my instructor didn't hit me when I was punching in, I'd think he was calling me a wimp or something. But then that's Kajukenbo,

"The workout isn't over till there's blood on the floor!"---Sijo Adriano D. Emperado (Founder of Kajukenbo).

It's in our DNA.

 

[LawDog]

Twin Fist,
Agreed.
I do believe that when you show a technique within a class room setting then using controlled contact is ok. Much like in the Jujitsu / Judo systems Kempo students must believe that the technique will do what it was intended to do. When showing a joint lock there must be some pain received or the student / student base will not confidence in that technique or even the Instructors ability.
However many an instructor will try to "impress" instead of instruct.
Many of highly experienced dojo "Martial Artists" have folded in street confrontation because they never have experienced the real pain of blunt force trauma.
:boxing:

 

[Twin Fist]

so very true

Twin Fist,
Agreed.
I do believe that when you show a technique within a class room setting then using controlled contact is ok. Much like in the Jujitsu / Judo systems Kempo students must believe that the technique will do what it was intended to do. When showing a joint lock there must be some pain received or the student / student base will not confidence in that technique or even the Instructors ability.
However many an instructor will try to "impress" instead of instruct.
Many of highly experienced dojo "Martial Artists" have folded in street confrontation because they never have experienced the real pain of blunt force trauma.
:boxing:

 

[just2kicku]

Hitting oneself and getting hit by others is different. Getting hit actually prepares you better.

You have to train to get past that "freeze" that occurs when you get hit unless you train to overcome it. This doesn't happen when you are conditioning yourself.

Also, the student needs to be confident that the technique you are showing him/her will work. Only way to do that is to let them feel it. Or at least enough of it to see it's effectiveness.

Plus, if my instructor didn't hit me when I was punching in, I'd think he was calling me a wimp or something. But then that's Kajukenbo,

"The workout isn't over till there's blood on the floor!"---Sijo Adriano D. Emperado (Founder of Kajukenbo).

It's in our DNA.

And that is why we used to pound on each other. In order to give a blow you have to be able to take a blow.

Haha, most of the time the workout still wasn't over Danjo, they just stopped long enough for everyone to go outside and rub dirt on their cuts. Lol

 

[Danjo]

And that is why we used to pound on each other. In order to give a blow you have to be able to take a blow.

Haha, most of the time the workout still wasn't over Danjo, they just stopped long enough for everyone to go outside and rub dirt on their cuts. Lol

Ain't that the truth! I remember the first time my nose got split wide open sparring from a ridgehand strike. I got the bleeding to stop and taped it, and Prof. Bishop said, "Is it still bleeding? No? Okay, you're sparring Mike now." and back out I went.

Good times.

 

[marlon]

during a demo i was a part of the instructor missed his block and proceeded to pound the crapola out of me to prove a point i threw the punch he missed and i paid for it i heard seagal does that to his stuntmen all the time i also knew a girl who would forget she was in a demo and think she was in a war! and litteraly eat you up you were limping for weeks after a demo with her! yikes!

I make it a point to let the students know that if they hit me in class that it is my fault not thiers. Sometimes I look away as I am explaining a technique and get hit sometimes hard, it is always anreminder to me to pat attention and never the student to blame oh and if I get hammered in the course of training techniques and or reaction drills most of the time I just compliment them on a good move and sometimes I will say that such contact is good on me but some others might find it too much

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Instructor insecurity.
During a demo there is no reason to kick the crap out of any student. Teaching a student how to take a hit is done in the class room only.

I dunno. Some students are tools, and deserve to get the crap knocked out of them. Keeps the uppity ones in place.

 

[Tez3]

Ain't that the truth! I remember the first time my nose got split wide open sparring from a ridgehand strike. I got the bleeding to stop and taped it, and Prof. Bishop said, "Is it still bleeding? No? Okay, you're sparring Mike now." and back out I went.

Good times.

sounds like us! My instructor knocked my tooth out, well it was a crown, my dentist had given up trying to repair the real one because of my sparring lol! I have to add this was going on over a few years lol, still gets knocked out now and again but hey thats what superglue is for.

 

[Xinglu]

sounds like us! My instructor knocked my tooth out, well it was a crown, my dentist had given up trying to repair the real one because of my sparring lol! I have to add this was going on over a few years lol, still gets knocked out now and again but hey thats what superglue is for.

LOL sounds like a great lesson as to why we don't block with our mouth!

 

[Kenpo17]

When I demonstrate on a student, I hit them no doubt, but I don't knock the crap out of them. I hit them hard enough they feel a sting or so they have told me they feel a sting. This doesn't mean I am going to beat that student up, rather I am teaching them how to take a hit without actually beating them up.

 

[Danjo]

I'd rather have the student get used to getting hit in a controlled environment so that they don't freeze from the shock and pain of it in a real situation. If they get hit in the school and have to fight through the pain, then hopefully they will be able to do so elsewhere. We're still training, and not fighting, but we train hard for a reason.

 

[MJS]

i'd rather have the student get used to getting hit in a controlled environment so that they don't freeze from the shock and pain of it in a real situation. If they get hit in the school and have to fight through the pain, then hopefully they will be able to do so elsewhere. We're still training, and not fighting, but we train hard for a reason.

qft!!!!

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

On Friday my sensei had a large mixed class of all levels, white through black belts. We spent some time on what he called "conditioning"...essentially standing there while your partner hit or kicked you, or you traded blocks, over and over again. The recipient had the option of turning the intensity up or down with a thumb signal. It was the first time I had ever participated in something like this. Strangely enough, even though it hurt, I really enjoyed it. I discovered that my body is harder and tougher than I imagined, and that with training it will become even more so.

 

[Danjo]

On Friday my sensei had a large mixed class of all levels, white through black belts. We spent some time on what he called "conditioning"...essentially standing there while your partner hit or kicked you, or you traded blocks, over and over again. The recipient had the option of turning the intensity up or down with a thumb signal. It was the first time I had ever participated in something like this. Strangely enough, even though it hurt, I really enjoyed it. I discovered that my body is harder and tougher than I imagined, and that with training it will become even more so.

It can get to be addicting for certain.

 

[Josh Oakley]

On Friday my sensei had a large mixed class of all levels, white through black belts. We spent some time on what he called "conditioning"...essentially standing there while your partner hit or kicked you, or you traded blocks, over and over again. The recipient had the option of turning the intensity up or down with a thumb signal. It was the first time I had ever participated in something like this. Strangely enough, even though it hurt, I really enjoyed it. I discovered that my body is harder and tougher than I imagined, and that with training it will become even more so.

I'm totally going to use this in a class!

 

[kaizasosei]

Five possibilities i can see:
1. They are demonstrating the power of the techniques.
2. They are demonstrating the skill and flow of the techniques and principles.
3. They're dicks that are just trying to demonstrate to themselves and force the students to believe they are good without using skill.
4. The volunteer is a dick and did something to warrant getting beaten.
5. The volunteer is challenging by skill level or threat level and the masters force becomes a little excessive.

 

[kaizasosei]

sorry for doubling and rereading my last post, sorry for the vulgar expressions...i can think of one more reason; the instructor want to make the pupil tougher- one of the quickest ways of teaching if the force is appropriate and the pupil able to handle it.

 

[just2kicku]

On Friday my sensei had a large mixed class of all levels, white through black belts. We spent some time on what he called "conditioning"...essentially standing there while your partner hit or kicked you, or you traded blocks, over and over again. The recipient had the option of turning the intensity up or down with a thumb signal. It was the first time I had ever participated in something like this. Strangely enough, even though it hurt, I really enjoyed it. I discovered that my body is harder and tougher than I imagined, and that with training it will become even more so.

We do the same thing! Its a buttload of fun. We meet inward block for inward block, outward for outward and reverse punches to the stomach simultaneously. We also add the inner and outer thigh leg kicks