Whoa...55 year sentence.

[Tgace]

YO-G!!! You dissin my dawg???

 

[Flatlander]

This gentleman's morality isn't really the issue though, guys. Whether or not 55 years in prison was an appropriate punishment for the crime he was convicted of is the issue here.

 

[michaeledward]

Tgace & MisterMike ...


you wanna bet the hunter in that just killed 5 people gets off with less time?

 

[michaeledward]

This gentleman's morality isn't really the issue though, guys. Whether or not 55 years in prison was an appropriate punishment for the crime he was convicted of is the issue here.

They know better .... Tgace is just tweekin' the bears as he puts it. (although I have a different name for his comments). And, MisterMike, is theoretically a Libertarian. A group that in general thinks drug laws should be repealed anyhow.

Revenge is Mine Sayth the Rightious.

Guns God & Gays. This is what we voted for. No compassion, regardless of what they claim.

 

[Tgace]

Your right Dan....it just seemed like there was an attempt to paint this guy as some sort of victim. I agree that the sentence seems harsh, but like I always say, we get what we ask for. People scream "Do Something!" and the gvt. responds (to get votes primarily).

you wanna bet the hunter in that just killed 5 people gets off with less time?

I dunno. Its getting huge press. Wanna bet that theres not going to be a massive outcry over this 55 year sentence. Right or wrong.

 

[MisterMike]

Tgace & MisterMike ...


you wanna bet the hunter in that just killed 5 people gets off with less time?

With the offenses takingplace in 2 different states, probably violating State/Federal laws, and the differencein counts, I don't think we canmake that comparison.

I bet parole comes a lot quicker for drug offenses though.

 

[michaeledward]

With the offenses takingplace in 2 different states, probably violating State/Federal laws, and the differencein counts, I don't think we canmake that comparison.

I bet parole comes a lot quicker for drug offenses though.

Quote ... taken directly from Judge Cassell's memo.

The federal system does not provide the possibility of parole, but instead provides only a modest "good behavior" credit of approximately 15 % of the sentence. Assuming good behavior, Mr. Angelos' sentence will be reducted to "only" 55 years, meaning he could be released when his is 78 years old.

There will be no parole in Mr. Angelos case.

I think we can make the comparison.

• Mr. Angelos ... sold 16 ounces of marijuana with a gun in his possession ... 55 years.
• Chai Vang ... killed 5 while hunting ... ? ? ? ?

 

[Tgace]

Will Chai Vang face federal charges??

 

[michaeledward]

Will Chai Vang face federal charges??

Unknown at this point. I would guess that the state will handle Mr. Vang's case, but that is just a guess.

Mr. Angelos was convicted under the Federal System.

 

[Tgace]

They know better .... Tgace is just tweekin' the bears as he puts it. (although I have a different name for his comments).

No. The mandatory sentencing policy may very well be wrong. Lets just say its not in the interest of justice. And not make some mushy appeal to his status as father, husband, businessman, cost of incarceration etc. Theres plenty of people in those categories that have done things that deserve more than 55 years.

 

[michaeledward]

No. The mandatory sentencing policy may very well be wrong. Lets just say its not in the interest of justice. And not make some mushy appeal to his status as father, husband, businessman, cost of incarceration etc. Theres plenty of people in those categories that have done things that deserve more than 55 years.

I refer you to my first post.

Of course, it's stupid.
I don't think the judge is trying to send any message. I think there are mandatory sentencing guidelines which legislators wrote to take enforcement of the laws away from 'judicial activists' (I think that's the term they use).
The gun supporting people say we should enforce the laws that are on the books. So, certainly, all of those folks in the Firing Range are applauding this situation.
It's bad .... but really, a 55 year sentence is so much better than allowing judges tell us all that when a contract is between two people, it can not not mean two people of the same gender. Thinkaboutit.
Mike

Each other argument I have put forth has been to refute statement from people who feel this punishment is acceptable.

Charge: Drain on society
Refutation: Costs for 55 years incarceration.

Charge: Drug Dealer
Refutation: Marijuana is legal is surrounding states and countries.

Charge: Threat to Society
Refutation: Businessman running a small business

Charge: Justice being served
Refutation: Injustice to his family.

Tgace,
I challenge you to count how many times in this thread I have used the word STUPID to describe this sentence. Each time, someone makes the argument that 55 years is deserved.

 

[Melissa426]

My humble opinion:

1. Fire the stupid lawyer who didn't tell him that federal guidelines would result in a 55 year sentence if he was convicted. Should have accepted a plea bargain.
2. 55 years is harsh and probably unjustified and I wouldn't be surprised if it is overturned on appeal. But ( and this is topical since the Robert Blake trial is
starting soon)... as the song says "don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

3. Small businessman, yeah right.
One reference from a medical journal about the consequences of marijuana use.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2003/01/21/national0117EST0427.DTL&nl=fix

Peace,
Melissa

 

[PeachMonkey]

One reference from a medical journal about the consequences of marijuana use.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2003/01/21/national0117EST0427.DTL&nl=fix

Melissa,

Would you be willing to provide comparable references for alcohol use? Tobacco?

Thanks.

 

[michaeledward]

1. Fire the stupid lawyer who didn't tell him that federal guidelines would result in a 55 year sentence if he was convicted. Should have accepted a plea bargain.

The offer by the government was 15 years in jail for selling two 8 ounce packets of marijuana and one count of having a gun in his possession. Mr. Angelos decided against the plea.

The government then decided it was going to seek prosecution on 5 weapons charges, for a total of 105 years imprisonment, Mr. Angelos attempted to re-open negotiations for the plea bargain. The government refused.

One of the 'issues' with mandatory sentencing, the prosecuting attorney's have great leeway in deciding what charges they are going to bring against an accused.

 

[Melissa426]

Melissa,

Would you be willing to provide comparable references for alcohol use? Tobacco?

Thanks.

:-offtopic
Yeah, but we're getting off topic. Are you interested in starting a new thread about the legalization of marijuana?

This is basically the entire abstract from the article I linked above. I added the highlights.


Peace,
Melissa

Escalation of Drug Use in Early-Onset Cannabis Users vs Co-twin Controls


[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Michael T. Lynskey, PhD; Andrew C. Heath, DPhil; Kathleen K. Bucholz, PhD; Wendy S. Slutske, PhD; Pamela A. F. Madden, PhD; Elliot C. Nelson, MD; Dixie J. Statham, MA; Nicholas G. Martin, PhD [/font]


[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]JAMA. 2003;289:427-433. [/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Context Previous studies have reported that early initiation of cannabis (marijuana) use is a significant risk factor for other drug use and drug-related problems.

Objective To examine whether the association between early cannabis use and subsequent progression to use of other drugs and drug abuse/dependence persists after controlling for genetic and shared environmental influences.

Design Cross-sectional survey conducted in 1996-2000 among an Australian national volunteer sample of 311 young adult (median age, 30 years) monozygotic and dizygotic same-sex twin pairs discordant for early cannabis use (before age 17 years).

Main Outcome Measures Self-reported subsequent nonmedical use of prescription sedatives, hallucinogens, cocaine/other stimulants, and opioids; abuse or dependence on these drugs (including cannabis abuse/dependence); and alcohol dependence.

Results Individuals who used cannabis by age 17 years had odds of other drug use, alcohol dependence, and drug abuse/dependence that were 2.1 to 5.2 times higher than those of their co-twin, who did not use cannabis before age 17 years. [/font]Controlling for known risk factors (early-onset alcohol or tobacco use, parental conflict/separation, childhood sexual abuse, conduct disorder, major depression, and social anxiety) had only negligible effects on [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]these results. These associations did not differ significantly between monozygotic and dizygotic twins.

Conclusions Associations between early cannabis use and later drug use and abuse/dependence cannot solely be explained by common predisposing genetic or shared environmental factors. The association may arise from the effects of the peer and social context within which cannabis is used and obtained. In particular, early access to and use of cannabis may reduce perceived barriers against the use of other illegal drugs and provide access to these drugs. [/font]

 

[Flatlander]

I do not see the relevance of this article to the discussion.

 

[michaeledward]

A one hour radio program about Mandatory Minimum and Sentencing Guidelines.

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2004/11/20041119_a_main.asp