White Crane Style Fajin Break Down

[Xue Sheng]

Not trying to brag about my Taiji generation here. I'm just lucky to have a teacher who had very high generation in the Taiji system.

The generation thing may not be important in US but in TCMA, you are not suppose to question anybody above your generation. If you are above or the same as someone's generation, it's OK to make comment on that person. That's "Wude".

Are you in my lineage.....no.... and questioning someone on a webpage in the US or anywhere is fine and how is it you come out before 4th generation Yang?

In the style of Taiji, I'm one generation above Chen Man Ching. I don't see the value of "push" in combat.

Are you saying you learned from Yang Jianhou or Yang Banhou or are you claiming your teacher learned from Yang Luchan. You are claiming 3rd generation here and I am just trying to figure out where that comes from. Or you are claiming or have learned from Yang Chengfu prior to Cheng Manching....care to explain that

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A friend of mine who had cross trained both white crane and Chinese wrestling. From what he told me, he only used his white crane Fajin in striking and not in throwing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

how is it you come out before 4th generation Yang?

This is my Taiji linkage:

Yang Jianhou/Yang Banhou -> General Li Jinglin -> GM Chang Tung Sheng -> Kung Fu Wang

The interest part is since General Li Jinglin was a warload in China, both Yang Jianhou and Yang Banhou called him as brother and won't dare to treat him as student. That made Yang Jianhou, Yang Banhou and general Li as the same generation.

Since my teacher had defeated General Li in Taiji push hand, General Li was very interest to integrate SC into his Taiji. My teacher taught general Li SC and general Li taught my teacher Taiji. It was an exchange. That made general Li and my teacher the same generation.

If Yang Jianhou, Yang Banhou, General Li Jinglin, and my teacher all belong to the same generation, that will make me the same generation as Yang Chen-Fu.

 

[mograph]

This is my Taiji linkage: Yang Jianhou/Yang Banhou -> General Li Jinglin -> GM Chang Tung Sheng -> Kung Fu Wang

If I click my right mouse button and something happens, do i have you to thank, sir?

 

[blindsage]

Not trying to brag about my Taiji generation here. I'm just lucky to have a teacher who had very high generation in the Taiji system.

The generation thing may not be important in US but in TCMA, you are not suppose to question anybody above your generation. If you are above or the same as someone's generation, it's OK to make comment on that person. That's "Wude".

So, you're subtle implication is that no one should question you, even though you're wrong, because you somehow must know more the CMC because your generation is higher? Yeah good luck with that.

 

[blindsage]

That's what I tried to say.

Faiji used in

- striking should be a force that go inside of your opponent's body without moving his physical body much.
- throwing should be a force that move your opponent's physical body.

Since most Faiji is demonstrated by pushing your opponent physical body, people may think that Fajin is for throwing. IMO, Fajin is for striking.


This was how this discussion started.

That's not how this discussion started. You posted a video of CMC not using fajin in order to make some unclear point about fajin, and then brought in your pet complaint about how you don't like pushing. What are you talking about?

 

[blindsage]

This is my Taiji linkage:

Yang Jianhou/Yang Banhou -> General Li Jinglin -> GM Chang Tung Sheng -> Kung Fu Wang

The interest part is since General Li Jinglin was a warload in China, both Yang Jianhou and Yang Banhou called him as brother and won't dare to treat him as student. That made Yang Jianhou, Yang Banhou and general Li as the same generation.

Since my teacher had defeated General Li in Taiji push hand, General Li was very interest to integrate SC into his Taiji. My teacher taught general Li SC and general Li taught my teacher Taiji. It was an exchange. That made general Li and my teacher the same generation.

If Yang Jianhou, Yang Banhou, General Li Jinglin, and my teacher all belong to the same generation, that will make me the same generation as Yang Chen-Fu.

That's some pretty magical lineage math, and for TCMA unsurprisingly delusional.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is my Taiji linkage:

Yang Jianhou/Yang Banhou -> General Li Jinglin -> GM Chang Tung Sheng -> Kung Fu Wang

The interest part is since General Li Jinglin was a warload in China, both Yang Jianhou and Yang Banhou called him as brother and won't dare to treat him as student. That made Yang Jianhou, Yang Banhou and general Li as the same generation.

Since my teacher had defeated General Li in Taiji push hand, General Li was very interest to integrate SC into his Taiji. My teacher taught general Li SC and general Li taught my teacher Taiji. It was an exchange. That made general Li and my teacher the same generation.

If Yang Jianhou, Yang Banhou, General Li Jinglin, and my teacher all belong to the same generation, that will make me the same generation as Yang Chen-Fu.

Yeah that's a mighty interesting little history you got there and a rather interesting way of looking at it to...but no.... sorry your you're 5th generation Yang at bests. By your math my shifu could potentially be 4th... and he always says he's 5th.....also once you integrate and change style names (Li) your not Yang anymore.

To be honest as far as the current Yang family is concerned nothing after General Li's students are in the Yang family lineage. As far as the Yang family is concerned my shifu is in the lineage but I'm not. As far as they are concerned I am 3rd generation Tung. Now if I go back and pursue Chen I could end up 20th generation Chen but who knows about that. But then Chen came before Yang and I'm, by Yang family standards Tung style, even though my shifu says I'm Yang, so I will question you all I want. Add to that we do not train with the same Shifu nor do we even fall under the same Shigong or even his teacher

You have a nice day

 

[GaryR]

... you are not suppose to question anybody above your generation. If you are above or the same as someone's generation, it's OK to make comment on that person. That's "Wude".

Creative math on your lineage. Regardless, nothing worse than a "lineage queen" as I like to call them.

The above quote highlights all that is wrong with some people in TCMA. We should show everyone respect, but we can and should question everything--it's called critical thinking, and not being a sheep.

G

 

[dre2308]

That's what I tried to say.

Faiji used in

- striking should be a force that go inside of your opponent's body without moving his physical body much.
- throwing should be a force that move your opponent's physical body.

Since most Faiji is demonstrated by pushing your opponent physical body, people may think that Fajin is for throwing. IMO, Fajin is for striking.


This was how this discussion started.

發(fa) means discharge, and 勁(jin) means power. To me, 發勁fajin can be displayed in any forms of martial art movement, whether it is a push, strike or kick.

If you know White Crane, you must have heard of Fire Hand, it has a push-like gesture, which has the effect of throwing and striking at the same time, and of course you can use fajin with it.

This is why I answer you at the beginning, what the master was trying to achieve is both strike and throw.

Next you ask a different question: " Push is neither punch nor throw. What's the purpose of "push"?

So I then went on giving you some applications of "push" in our style, which has nothing to do with the previous fajin discussion.

You do realize that you were asking 2 different questions, right?? or did I misunderstand what you were asking??

A friend of mine who had cross trained both white crane and Chinese wrestling. From what he told me, he only used his white crane Fajin in striking and not in throwing.

really?? well, maybe you should go make more friends from White Crane cuz there are many different styles in White Crane. i can be your friend if you want.
ha ha, just kidding.

 

[dre2308]

If you push your opponent, the distance between you and him will be increased. This will be harder for you to hit him after that. Instead, you should pull your opponent into you and give him a "head on collision". That will fit the striking model:

Fair enough. however in our style, we will control how far the opponent is being pushed then chase him down immediately with the 2nd combo, and some foot works are also involved.

for example, consider 3:46 to 3:55 of the following video. the "push" in the combo is actually fire hand(火&#25484, which in real combat would also have the same effect of striking since you are hitting your opponent with the bone of your palm.

The throwing model will require 2 opposite directions force. One to push your opponent's upper body. One to pull his leg/legs.

true. how about the downward swirling motion/force? it is one point. if you consider dragging your opponent down to the ground as throw.
good discussion.