Which martial art is most similar to Tai Chi

[kubrick]

I would like to compliment my TC training with another martial art. Have previously trained in TKD and Shotokan but I am now looking for a softer form. Any ideas?
Thanks

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I guess Bagua or Hsing Yi could help.

 

[grydth]

I'd suggest exploring Kung Fu if instruction is available.

 

[Xue Sheng]

First question or two; How long have you trained Taijiquan? What style of taijiquan do you trin?

Xingyi, Bagua or another style of taijiquan

But to be honest I found some incredible similarities in Military Sanda

 

[arnisador]

I guess Bagua or Hsing Yi could help.

Makes sense to me!

 

[kubrick]

Thanks for the replies.
I am currently learning Yang Long Form TC (108 movement). Been doin TC for 6 months or so but only just found a good instructor. Did TKD to Red belt and Shotokan when I was a kid.
I'm interested in softer forms as I suffer from RSI (guitar playing!) and I always remembered when doing TKD i was always very tensed up. I realise I was probably too tense and actually doing things incorrectly but i find it much easier to stay loose with a softer style.
I used to play guitar very tensed up also, hence problem.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks for the replies.
I am currently learning Yang Long Form TC (108 movement). Been doin TC for 6 months or so but only just found a good instructor. Did TKD to Red belt and Shotokan when I was a kid.
I'm interested in softer forms as I suffer from RSI (guitar playing!) and I always remembered when doing TKD i was always very tensed up. I realise I was probably too tense and actually doing things incorrectly but i find it much easier to stay loose with a softer style.
I used to play guitar very tensed up also, hence problem.

If you have only been doing taiji for 6 months might I suggest sticking with taiji a while longer before you look for something else. That is unless you are done with taiji and want to move on.

The long for is just the beginning.

 

[kaizasosei]

As Master Yang Jwing Ming once explained, Tai Chi is actually not a martial art perse. It is a philosophy. All things in creation have come to be through the harmony of positve and negative. One also speaks of wuji or no polarity-a primordial state. However taichi is the philosophy of yin and yang. Taichichuan should be similar to conventional martial arts training and means 'the fist of taichi' - it should be noted, however, that there is much mystery about the subject of taichi everywhere and also that socalled conventional martial arts usually also aspire to incorporate philosophical aspects, health as well as wholistic approaches. So there is not that much difference after all, but in essence taichi is not merely a martial art and i believe that all activities and things in life definately can be directly related to the concept of taichi.

My opinion as to which martial arts most resemble taichichuan would be aikido for one, as it was intended and taught by UeshibaOsensei.
Aikido at first glance may seem more mechanical and less round than taichichuan, but i believe that the conepts are the same. Many aiki exercises can be seen as qigong, and ki is a central subject in the philosophy of taichi and the practice of taichichuan.

j

 

[kubrick]

If you have only been doing taiji for 6 months might I suggest sticking with taiji a while longer before you look for something else. That is unless you are done with taiji and want to move on.

The long for is just the beginning.

Thanks, I realise I am very much a beginner at TC, but I am just looking for some more practical self defence training and i would like to find a style that has some symbiosis (!) with my TC.

Thanks again for all replies!

 

[mograph]

Ah. The thing with Internal Chinese MA such as Taijiquan, Bagua and Xingyi is that it generally takes a long time to get to a point where you can use it in self-defence. From what I've experienced and read, anyway.

That said, I think the closest you could get for your needs would be Aikido (as kaisasosei wrote), which has its roots in Bagua as I understand it.

Or maybe you could find a school that does Chen style Taijiquan for self-defence, but that could be difficult.

Or maybe a Kung Fu school (as grydth suggested) that has a strong internal component to its curriculum would suit your needs.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

[QUOTE I realise I am very much a beginner at TC, but I am just looking for some more practical self defence training and i would like to find a style that has some symbiosis ][/QUOTE]

The practical self defense is all there!!

The thing is knowing how to apply it.

IMO if you are looking for similar style the best bet would be Bagua and Hsing yi and it is not uncommon for the masters of old to train in one of these as well as Tai chi chuan just look at Sun Lu T'ang. Also looking at the masters of old they were very accomplish fighters.

good luck

 

[hpulley]

Most who teach taiji at a martial arts school instead of a community center light fitness programme will also be able to teach you ba gua and wushu (kung fu), sanshou, et al. Taiji is an internal style of wushu (kung fu) so that would be the obvious step up into something of higher intensity. Sanshou is 'practical wushu' so it is more focused on self defense and fighting.

In truth though, karatedo came from both okinawan and chinese systems and now Japanese wushu (karatedo) has been incorporated back into sanshou so you can find elements of taiji in Japanese systems as well. In fact my dojo teaches both Okinawan and Chinese systems and talks about the common origins of both. Both are about the best way to move your body and train your body for many reasons, only one of which is self defense.

 

[kaizasosei]

That said, I think the closest you could get for your needs would be Aikido (as kaisasosei wrote), which has its roots in Bagua as I understand it.

yes, i believe that is true in several ways. The precurser to aikido, Daitoryu aikijujutsu has basics that are built upon the 8 directions and are comprised of off balancing techniques towards all sides actually named after the 'eight pillar' trigrams.

Furthermore, aikido founder UeshibaOsensei would often talk about using the right hand or the left hand as in and yo (or ying and yang). Also, aikido is one of the arts that lays great emphasis on ki or energy as well as tanden. this can mean different things in different schools but there are similarities between the arts.

 

[bostonbomber]

I'm going to have to agree with Xue Sheng, I'd stick with taiji before attempting another system. I think it is important to supplement your taiji training with something more intensive (e.g., weight training, running, etc). But if you try learning a new system at this early stage it will be very difficult to separate the concepts of taiji from the other choice (even if the other choice is also a so called "internal" system as well).

Taiji is an extremely effective, complete system. As far as fighting goes, it doesn't have to be complemented with anything.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks, I realise I am very much a beginner at TC, but I am just looking for some more practical self defence training and i would like to find a style that has some symbiosis (!) with my TC.



Thanks again for all replies!

There is a rather large amount of practical self-defense training in Taiji but in order to understand it and use it as Taiji is meant to be used you need to have first s qualified Sifu that understands it and will teach it and be willing to take the time to learn it. And also there is a need to understand that a qualified Taijiquan Sifu does know better than you what you need to learn and what you are ready to understand and learn

If you are looking for Bagua of Xingyi or anything else in order to use taiji as a self-defense art you are not learning taiji you are learning another style such as Bagua and Xingyi and applying their views to taiji and you then do not have taiji. Xingyi and Bagua although internal are not the same as taiji when it comes to the martial arts at all.

Taijiquan yields and blends where Baguazhang circles and evades and Xingyi tends to not yield, blend, circle or evade it tends to smash straight through. And aikido, although a great martial art, is not taiji and it does not approach fighting the same and combining Taiji with aikido is again not taiji at all and it misses the point, as far as taiji is concerned, as it applies to application

I mean no offense but it sounds as if you are looking to reinvent the wheel or take a short cut to the martial arts of taiji and there is no need to reinvent it at all, find a teacher that is qualified and listen to what he/she says and take the time to learn it. And there are no shortcuts, particularly in any CMA art categorized as internal.

Bottom-line if you want the martial arts of taiji you have to understand it takes years. My Sifu agrees with his sifu in that it takes about 6 years just to understand the long form and basic push hands. And martial applications are part of that but you are still not done training and learning things taiji by far even after 6 years.

EDIT

Arbitrary numbers here because it is all based on how hard you train and how often you see your Sifu but I have been told that if you are going by taiji taking at least 6 years to understand the long form enough to use any of it as it was meant to be used as taiji you are talking 4 years to get to that in a Baguazhang form and 2 years in Xingyiquan. None of it comes easy or quickly and if your goal is taiji then I would stick with taiji adding another style with only 6 months in taiji will only cause confusion, beleive me I know I tried many years ago myself..

 

[kaizasosei]

The question was which martial art, of the many out there, is most similar to Tai Chi? No doubt taichi is an excellent as well as complete system and has deep philosophical roots. If you, Xue Sheng believe that there is no martial art that comes even close to taichi, then just say so. I feel the question does deserve some kind of appropriate answer...

but definately, it is true that there are a host of excellent kinds of chinese systems that would be great supplements to taichichuan training. Both grappling and striking....there are probably more than in any other culture. I first started with choy lay fu and qigong as a youngster....

who's to say, maybe aikido is just a form of taichi...it's just that i was trying to answer the question. I wasnt telling anyone what they should do because maybe they're not doing anything wrong in the first place.



j

 

[Xue Sheng]

The question was which martial art, of the many out there, is most similar to Tai Chi? No doubt taichi is an excellent as well as complete system and has deep philosophical roots. If you, Xue Sheng believe that there is no martial art that comes even close to taichi, then just say so. I feel the question does deserve some kind of appropriate answer...

but definately, it is true that there are a host of excellent kinds of chinese systems that would be great supplements to taichichuan training. Both grappling and striking....there are probably more than in any other culture. I first started with choy lay fu and qigong as a youngster....

who's to say, maybe aikido is just a form of taichi...it's just that i was trying to answer the question. I wasnt telling anyone what they should do because maybe they're not doing anything wrong in the first place.



j

I was not responding to you I was responding to kubrick and not saying anything against you or your post or anyone elses specifically, It may be a good combination but it is not taiji if you combine aikido with taiji and it is not aikido if you combine taiji with aikido. It may be effective but it is neither taiji nor aikido. They have different philosophies, different strategies and different applications, different origins, etc.

But taiji is taiji, xingyi is xingyi, bagua is bagua and aikido is aikido they all have different approaches to martial arts and fighting

As to aikido being another form of taiji, not in my opinion or my sifu's. However I, like my Sifu, am rather impressed by aikido. But I doubt you would not find anyone of the taiji families that would call Aikido Taiji. And likely not find any of Morihei Ueshiba family or students calling aikido taiji either. As a matter of fact I was at a demo, at my old taiji school, of one of the students of a student of Ueshiba (sorry his name escapes me at the moment but he teachers of taught in NYC) where he did say this is not taiji. But without that I would still say it is not. There are similarities but they are not the same.

And what was said by kubrick is he was looking for "some more practical self defense training". Taiji is rather practical it just takes a long time to learn and at an early stage if you go off and start combining things you will miss the point.

Is aikido similar to taiji? Yes I believe it is.

Is Aikido another type of taiji? No I do not believe it is.

 

[kaizasosei]

Hi.

Thanks for getting back to me. I did not feel threatened or offended. It's alright for everyone to have their own approaches. I suppose that is what makes each style special. I suppose that i am extreme in my own way, always dabbling in so many different diciplines and systems...
sometimes i get a tad irritated and wonder why people choose to completely limit themselves to one martial art even to the point of becoming martial art vain. Then again sometimes i admire the dedication and the quest for perfection. Also, i think that it might be confusing to mix up too many different arts and it may be challenging to get it all under one hat, in itself.

One time, the question was asked in a caligraphy class if taichi is the most powerful martial art or what is the most powerful martial art....the caligraphy teacher remained silent though im quite sure he is a good martial artist and would have plenty of opinion. Then i casually interrupted and proclaimed with utter confidence that taichi is the most powerful martial art and it is almost silly just posing the question.
It was weird however the reaction i caused, people started to whisper some with a look in their eyes like 'ooh, he said it' others seemed pleased yet bewildered by the statement and the confidence i exuded, especially coming from the japanology institute, just visiting for caligraphy.

Thing is, it is not about what, who which is the strongest. It is about the subject matter. The essence of taichi is the essence of all martial arts. I personally equate taichi with alchemy, both eastern and western which is the highest art known to man above swordsmanship and even higher than wizardry.
so it is obvious that taichi being the essence all arts that if mastered
is the most powerful-that has nothing to do with names or cultures. after all, a taekwondo kick may have a certain style to it, but in the end it is not a taekwondo kick, it is a high kick or a fast kick or a beautiful kick.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Dabbled a bit myself (jma, kma, cma), spent the last several years in Yang Taiji and done some Chen (still do actually). But have decided to move on to (return to) Xingyiquan. But I still have a big connection to Taijiquan and I often think about returning. And I have absolutely no problem with combining arts, the only problem I do have is when someone trains something like Taiji and then tries to combine it with another style to get the martial arts of it and still call it Taiji when if they took the time and listened to thier sifu they would find the true martial arts of it. What they end up with is something that might be effective but it is not Taiji. And I do not feel it is superior to any other art it is just another wy that is all.

My Yang sifu has spent over 50 years in Taiji and only Taiji and to be honest I do not find him lacking anywhere as a martial artist. His patience and calm in the face of confrontation has always amazed me as well as the ease with which he is able to move someone. He is at a level I wish I could attain but I do not have the time as he did to dedicate to it. But who knows what the future holds, only time will tell

 

[oxy]

I pretty much agree that 6 months is not long enough to get a good understanding of Taiji to try and supplement it with other things.

I think at this point, a lot of mental effort should be spent on learning how to observe. I think there's too much emphasis on "what the teacher can teach" and not enough on "what the student can learn".

When you can observe people and understand their movements, you can incorporate many aspects of other martial arts without having trained in them and still retain, in this case, Taijiness.