MaartenSFS
Blue Belt
I don't recall saying that. Don't put my name and Ninja together, please. Because, quite frankly, I'm not that cool.
Which is your preferred weapon?
- Thread starter xTNVx NirVana
- Start date
I don't recall saying that. Don't put my name and Ninja together, please. Because, quite frankly, I'm not that cool.
Adept
Master Black Belt
That doesn't stop criminals from carrying and using them on you. Choosing to carry and/or use is a personal choice you yourself make, because despite what any laws may dictate to you it is your life or your loved ones' lives that are at stake. I have made my decision - your turn.
If I were to use a knife on someone in a self defense situation, I would be going to jail.
How does that help anyone?
TrainHardFightEasy
Yellow Belt
Very true. Realistically you'd just have to be under some sort of extremely serious threat I guess. I guess anything counts in those sort of situations though.
qi-tah
Brown Belt
Unrealistic in a SD situation? My Deer Hook Knives. Love 'em... beautiful, balanced, reminds me to use both my hands for maximum coverage/distraction/effect.
A tad more realistic? My massive ball of keys on a chain. All you have to do is whirl it around really fast to make someone think twice. Or at closer quarters, my motorcycle helmet.
A tad more realistic? My massive ball of keys on a chain. All you have to do is whirl it around really fast to make someone think twice. Or at closer quarters, my motorcycle helmet.
Bill Sempf
Yellow Belt
Can't carry a knife or pepperspray, huh? Must be easy pickings for run-of-the mill crooks over there.
I remember last I was in Sydney, someone had been tomahawked to death about 6 blocks from my hotel. Wonder if they are illegal too.
S
MaartenSFS
Blue Belt
Like I said, you have control over when and if you use what you carry, but at least you've got it with you when you need it. If someone starts wildly slashing a knife at you or five people decide to kick your **** and you haven't got something, you're going to be in a world of hurt and, if you survive, you'll be unrecognisable.
There are three things you can do with a weapon.
1) Not use it, if you think that you can handle the situation. But it will make you more confident if you know that when the **** hits the fan you've still got a back-up plan.
2) Show it - intimidation. Any long shiny objects emerging into the night are sure to deter criminals.
3) Use it. Better them, than you.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
XS, this raises a question I hadn't thought about before. I know you're specifically a CMA guy, and mostly internal arts plus Sanda (hope I have this right?). Do you/have you spent time training weapons to any extent? Your last phrase in your post leads me to believe the empty hand techniques you've trained could easily be fatal, if used full out. Is that what you'd resort to? Just curious, since I've trained two primary arts, Kempo and Kung Fu San Soo. The former trained no weapons, the latter did (although it's not what you'd call a really 'traditional' art). However, even KFSS didn't really rely on the weapons for fighting (forms only)--more body movement, some CMA tradition, and to quicken the empty hand forms.
Just wondered about your experience and perspective.
MaartenSFS
Blue Belt
I think his meaning was that fighting is a last resort, to which I agree.
Your physical demeanor and psychology are an integral, oft-neglected, part of MA. I have only been in several fights since my school days, even though I was often in dangerous situations, because I go from point A to point B, eyes forward, chest straight, and anyone that is considering whether or not to try anything can see that I will destroy whatever comes in between me and point B. In developing countries people often try to harrass and haggle you. When I walk down the street I can see them start to aproach and open their mouth to speak, just before they bail out on that notion, press the abort button, and halt in their tracks. It's all about attitude.
BUT... If you and your loved one are taking a stroll and you are confronted by numerous armed assailants, hand to hand combat may not always work. It's better to comply and give them what they want, assuming that it's money or some other valuables. But what if they aren't in the game for money? What if they just want to torment a happy young couple? What are you going to do with your hands and feet against knives or other weapons? In CMA there were 19 disciplines of combat. Sanda (Unarmed combat) was dead last on that list for a reason.
Don't kid yourself into believing that on a dark, cold, rainy night, perhaps after you have just finished a long day of work, perhaps ill - because that is when you are most likely to be targeted - your unarmed combat skills will work in such a situation. Tournaments like UFC are hardly realistic. True, they offer a way to train fight psychology and improve condition, but your opponent isn't trying to kill your loved ones, both fighters are paired up fairly, and there is a complete absence of battlefield conditions. In a real situation the odds will be against you - always. Weapons are great equalisers. The longer the range, the better. I my rantings could be of some use.
Your physical demeanor and psychology are an integral, oft-neglected, part of MA. I have only been in several fights since my school days, even though I was often in dangerous situations, because I go from point A to point B, eyes forward, chest straight, and anyone that is considering whether or not to try anything can see that I will destroy whatever comes in between me and point B. In developing countries people often try to harrass and haggle you. When I walk down the street I can see them start to aproach and open their mouth to speak, just before they bail out on that notion, press the abort button, and halt in their tracks. It's all about attitude.
BUT... If you and your loved one are taking a stroll and you are confronted by numerous armed assailants, hand to hand combat may not always work. It's better to comply and give them what they want, assuming that it's money or some other valuables. But what if they aren't in the game for money? What if they just want to torment a happy young couple? What are you going to do with your hands and feet against knives or other weapons? In CMA there were 19 disciplines of combat. Sanda (Unarmed combat) was dead last on that list for a reason.
Don't kid yourself into believing that on a dark, cold, rainy night, perhaps after you have just finished a long day of work, perhaps ill - because that is when you are most likely to be targeted - your unarmed combat skills will work in such a situation. Tournaments like UFC are hardly realistic. True, they offer a way to train fight psychology and improve condition, but your opponent isn't trying to kill your loved ones, both fighters are paired up fairly, and there is a complete absence of battlefield conditions. In a real situation the odds will be against you - always. Weapons are great equalisers. The longer the range, the better. I my rantings could be of some use.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
That is what I meant.
I have some weapons training, however it is mostly form, Jain and Dao Forms nothing I would want to use to defend myself with. The only weapons training I have that I could possibly use in self defense is staff, but I have not trained staff in years and it is kind of hard to walk around with a 5 or 6 foot or longer white wax staff and go unnoticed. It is a part of my training that I look to improve upon at some point. And the extendable Baton Maarten suggested in another post is a possibility.
Also I have some minor training from a friend of mine that was an LEO in using everyday objects as weapons if necessary. Keys are a great weapon by the way however I do not think I would like to go up against a machete with only keys. A tightly rolled up magazine works as well and the oft neglected HOT cup of coffee may be just enough to distract the attacker so you can gain advantage. But these of course are last resort things.
As to being deadly, any move anyone does can be deadly. Hit a guy right or when he is off balance, he falls down and hits his head and dies, it is deadly.
Sanda does not train with weapons but it does train to fight against weapons. Taiji has weapons forms but nothing I would want to depend on in a fight. Xingyi also has weapons forms and the staff form I learned from that (about 5 feet long) I would use if need be and I happened to come across a 5 foot long pole at the time. Shaolin Long fist, also a staff form that would likely work as well, but again there would need to be a 6 foot pole around.
I use to work in a hospital as security that had a very busy emergency room with a mental health and detox unit and I had WAY too many physical confrontations to want to get in anymore. And the only thing that could be called a weapon would be the stainless steel bucket someone threw at my head, the chair a guy was swinging and, in my opinion, the bloody mess of a heroin addict I had to takedown. I also worked security for the state in which I live and I have had way to many confrontations outside in the dark on the street to really want to get into that anymore either if I do not have to. Luckily all of these were handled by my attitude and size and no physical altercation occurred. Its just plain no fun to deal with.
I agree with this
Actually it is this is what is getting me interested in Systema. The use of weapons in training and the idea that a fight can occur just about anywhere on any terrain or in any weather and they do not always occur when you are physically prepared and can be multiple attackers.
CityChicken
Yellow Belt
1) my body: hands, feet, knees, elbows leveraged with tang soo do
2) Springfield XD subcompact 9mm
3) Colombia River 4'' folding tanto blade, m-16 model
4) Winchester 1300 12 gauge
2) Springfield XD subcompact 9mm
3) Colombia River 4'' folding tanto blade, m-16 model
4) Winchester 1300 12 gauge
<snip some excellent thought provoking comments>
In CMA there were 19 disciplines of combat. Sanda (Unarmed combat) was dead last on that list for a reason.
<snip other good insights>
In a real situation the odds will be against you - always. Weapons are great equalisers. The longer the range, the better. I my rantings could be of some use.
I have to say that this strikes to the core (yeah, MA pun attack!) of the question of whether your empty-handed arts are 'effective' or not.
Many thanks to Maarten for voicing it and I have to concur (from a Japanese perspective) that unarmed combat versus armed opponents was never viewed as anything other than a last resort ... unless that is that you are much superior to those that threaten you (and how do you tell that beforehand?).
I've faced improvised weapons (broken bottle) and survived to tell the tale but that was only because those who assaulted me underestimated their prey (this was long ago and not many had really absorbed the 'existence' of martial arts outside of films).
If I'd had any choice at all I would not have experienced that situation.
But I didn't have a choice, so, in the final analysis, as a bit of a counter-point, it is better to have your empty-hand training in such extremis than to be totally helpless. It's a roll of the dice but any chance is better than none.
MaartenSFS
Blue Belt
You're welcome and I agree with you. The warriors of olde strove to perfect every aspect of combat, including hand to hand, through trial and error on the battlefield. Nowadays, it is more difficult to simulate this - hence the stagnation of MA.
Em MacIntosh
3rd Black Belt
I gotta go with the chucks. They're cool. Kali sticks are my next favorite. I'm assuming light saber and plasma cannon don't count.
MaartenSFS
Blue Belt
I really hope that you are not serious...
Callandor
Green Belt
Escrima sticks, of course. The range is right without being overly bulky; Justifiable in the courts of justice; If you are trained in it but don't have it with you, lots of things could substitute like a halved(?) billiard stick (what do you call that?), a leg of a wooden chair, brooms, mops, whatever; and versatile - you could use it for joint locking.
If only I could do a Go Hadouken....
If only I could do a Go Hadouken....
A serrated tanto point knife.
Em MacIntosh
3rd Black Belt
Something wrong with the chucks?
MaartenSFS
Blue Belt
Besides the fact that they are absolutely useless for combat, no..
