Where do I go to spar?

[FluidSound]

Is there a possible place where I can go to spar with different types of opponents who learn different martial art styles? I don't want to join a gym I won't stay at or anything. I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring. Also, I wish to learn other martial arts as well. Are there any places or ways I can find people to spar with in order to improve my self defense and martial art capabilities? My gym doesn't include sparring in it. We all do pushing hands.

 

[Cyriacus]

Is there a possible place where I can go to spar with different types of opponents who learn different martial art styles? I don't want to join a gym I won't stay at or anything. I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring. Also, I wish to learn other martial arts as well. Are there any places or ways I can find people to spar with in order to improve my self defense and martial art capabilities? My gym doesn't include sparring in it. We all do pushing hands.

To the Plain Text:
Many MMA Gyms. But theres more to it than just "Apply Tai Chi Quan in Sparring", because it isnt designed for Sparring.

To The Italic:
Tai Chi Quan is not designed for Sparring, hence why You do different exercises.
Sparring is not Self Defense or Fighting, its exactly what the label says it is. Sparring. The same goes for all the things any given Boxer can do that They dont do in Sparring. Like Headlocks. And trying to apply what You know to a different format is good and all, but going to Gyms to fight people whove trained extra specially to hit You in a certain way is also a good way to get Your confidence shot down. Itd be like getting a Learner Wrestler to go to a Boxing Gym full of Competitors and expect to not get punched in the face. Again, its not a bad idea. But now:

To the Bold:
You dont want to join a Gym You wont stay at, but You wish to learn other Martial Arts?
The solution is this:

Scrap what You want to do now. Scrap it.
Train Tai Chi Quan as Tai Chi Quan is trained, and train whatever else, as it is meant to be trained.
You can start applying idealogies from one in the other after about 1-3 years.
Until then, keep Them as separate things.

 

[FluidSound]

Hm... Alright. I guess that makes sense. Still, I have no confidence to begin with and I'm not one to whine over a loss. I take a loss in a fight, in practice, sparring, or anything to be a learning experience rather than a way to shoot down my confidence. I want to be able to practice and apply what I know, against someone that's willing to fight.

I'm troubled at saying what I wish to say. When I say, I want to learn other martial arts, I mean, I wish to join other gyms for those martial arts. But, currently, I wish to stay at my gym and spar without having to join another martial art gym. I wish to learn other people's styles in order to know how to counter it and as a way to apply self defense in real life too. Because, honestly, I'm a small guy and I don't build muscle very well. But, I don't want to really hurt anyone either. I think that's why I like Tai Chi Quan. Because it focuses on taking the opponent's energy and throwing it back at them. Or I should say, throw them off balance, based on their momentum.

But, I guess I understand. Though, I wouldn't mind getting beat down if I know it's going to happen. If I never challenge anyone, then what experience will I gain?

 

[Cyriacus]

Hm... Alright. I guess that makes sense. Still, I have no confidence to begin with

Then maybe Tai Chi Quan isnt for You.

and I'm not one to whine over a loss. I take a loss in a fight, in practice, sparring, or anything to be a learning experience rather than a way to shoot down my confidence.

It isnt about being a good loser. I used a Wrestler Boxer analogy because the Wrestler has learnt to Grapple. The Boxer has spent hours upon thousands of hours practicing punching people really hard. If the Wrestler then proceeds to Box the Boxer, what do You THINK will happen. If the Boxer went to a Wrestling Gym and Wrestled a Wrestler, His sole defense would be physical strength.

I want to be able to practice and apply what I know, against someone that's willing to fight.

Obviously. But going to spar, say, an MMA Fighter under the Rules of MMA will not make You better at Tai Chi Quan.

I'm troubled at saying what I wish to say. When I say, I want to learn other martial arts, I mean, I wish to join other gyms for those martial arts. But, currently, I wish to stay at my gym and spar without having to join another martial art gym. I wish to learn other people's styles in order to know how to counter it and as a way to apply self defense in real life too.

It really wont amount to much. The only way You could even get close to what You want is to cross-train, keep both Systems seperate, and blend Them a bit where possible in a few years time. As for Self Defense, well trained Tai Chi Quan will serve You as well as anything else of its level. But if You need to SEE results sooner rather than later, learn something else.

Because, honestly, I'm a small guy and I don't build muscle very well.

Size is irrelevant. Force, Speed, Balance, Focus, Reflexes, and Timing are consistent regardless of how much muscle You do or do not have.

But, I don't want to really hurt anyone either.

I have bad news for You: If You are assaulted, the guy/s assaulting You? THEY want to hurt YOU.

I think that's why I like Tai Chi Quan. Because it focuses on taking the opponent's energy and throwing it back at them. Or I should say, throw them off balance, based on their momentum.

It isnt quite so easy to apply that outside of Tai Chi Quan however, at least not on the level that it can be within itself.
Were You to go and spar in a Gym, all Youd learn is that its harder to turn peoples energy back when those people are trained to put Their energy into Their fists, feet, elbows, knees, or whatever it is Theyre using.
Aikido is based on stopping a committed attack.

This gentleman gets by, but count how many times He is struck. And this is not full contact. Why? Because They have been trained to hit Him. He has been trained to try not to get hit. But when both idealogies are used against each other, They clash. It largely just becomes Person VS Person, with both employing a different tactic.

But, I guess I understand. Though, I wouldn't mind getting beat down if I know it's going to happen. If I never challenge anyone, then what experience will I gain?

Experience in Tai Chi Quan.
A System which is not based on Sparring.

And being beaten down wont be an enlightening experience, itll be a painful one that leaves marks and teaches You next to nothing about what You already know. All itll do is make You doubt most of what You think works.
If You never challenge anyone, Youll be staying within the boundaries of Tai Chi Quan. Sparring is a part of many systems - Hence why I suggested Cross Training.

 

[K-man]

How long have you been training Tai Chi Quan?

 

[FluidSound]

Then maybe Tai Chi Quan isnt for You.



It isnt about being a good loser. I used a Wrestler Boxer analogy because the Wrestler has learnt to Grapple. The Boxer has spent hours upon thousands of hours practicing punching people really hard. If the Wrestler then proceeds to Box the Boxer, what do You THINK will happen. If the Boxer went to a Wrestling Gym and Wrestled a Wrestler, His sole defense would be physical strength.



Obviously. But going to spar, say, an MMA Fighter under the Rules of MMA will not make You better at Tai Chi Quan.



It really wont amount to much. The only way You could even get close to what You want is to cross-train, keep both Systems seperate, and blend Them a bit where possible in a few years time. As for Self Defense, well trained Tai Chi Quan will serve You as well as anything else of its level. But if You need to SEE results sooner rather than later, learn something else.



Size is irrelevant. Force, Speed, Balance, Focus, Reflexes, and Timing are consistent regardless of how much muscle You do or do not have.



I have bad news for You: If You are assaulted, the guy/s assaulting You? THEY want to hurt YOU.



It isnt quite so easy to apply that outside of Tai Chi Quan however, at least not on the level that it can be within itself.
Were You to go and spar in a Gym, all Youd learn is that its harder to turn peoples energy back when those people are trained to put Their energy into Their fists, feet, elbows, knees, or whatever it is Theyre using.
Aikido is based on stopping a committed attack.

This gentleman gets by, but count how many times He is struck. And this is not full contact. Why? Because They have been trained to hit Him. He has been trained to try not to get hit. But when both idealogies are used against each other, They clash. It largely just becomes Person VS Person, with both employing a different tactic.



Experience in Tai Chi Quan.
A System which is not based on Sparring.

And being beaten down wont be an enlightening experience, itll be a painful one that leaves marks and teaches You next to nothing about what You already know. All itll do is make You doubt most of what You think works.
If You never challenge anyone, Youll be staying within the boundaries of Tai Chi Quan. Sparring is a part of many systems - Hence why I suggested Cross Training.

I see... Alright. I still wish to continue Tai Chi though in order for me to learn how to relax and because, I still want it to be my martial art. Also, what is Cross Training?

@K-man

I've been doing it for... I'd estimate a year or more. Though, I want to learn more because, I'm kind of interested in learning how to fight efficiently and will work hard to do so. It'd teach a lot of good experiences, I'd hope. I eventually, if I ever get good enough, would like to try Chen Style.

 

[Tez3]

To the Plain Text:
Many MMA Gyms. But theres more to it than just "Apply Tai Chi Quan in Sparring", because it isnt designed for Sparring.

To The Italic:
Tai Chi Quan is not designed for Sparring, hence why You do different exercises.
Sparring is not Self Defense or Fighting, its exactly what the label says it is. Sparring. The same goes for all the things any given Boxer can do that They dont do in Sparring. Like Headlocks. And trying to apply what You know to a different format is good and all, but going to Gyms to fight people whove trained extra specially to hit You in a certain way is also a good way to get Your confidence shot down. Itd be like getting a Learner Wrestler to go to a Boxing Gym full of Competitors and expect to not get punched in the face. Again, its not a bad idea. But now:

To the Bold:
You dont want to join a Gym You wont stay at, but You wish to learn other Martial Arts?
The solution is this:

Scrap what You want to do now. Scrap it.
Train Tai Chi Quan as Tai Chi Quan is trained, and train whatever else, as it is meant to be trained.
You can start applying idealogies from one in the other after about 1-3 years.
Until then, keep Them as separate things.

Most MMA gyms won't allow someone to walk in and start sparring, they are no different from TMA places in that respect. You have to train MMA and often they don't spar every session, much of the the time is spent drilling and learning with sparring being done when they feel student is ready. Sparring isn't a big a part of MMA as many seem to think, there's a lot of learning to be done first. it's important yes but it's controlled and is also done 'MMA' style as it's for competiting against other MMA fighters in competition, having someone come in to 'test' their style is of no use to them frankly and probably of no use to the person either.

 

[Cyriacus]

Most MMA gyms won't allow someone to walk in and start sparring, they are no different from TMA places in that respect. You have to train MMA and often they don't spar every session, much of the the time is spent drilling and learning with sparring being done when they feel student is ready. Sparring isn't a big a part of MMA as many seem to think, there's a lot of learning to be done first. it's important yes but it's controlled and is also done 'MMA' style as it's for competiting against other MMA fighters in competition, having someone come in to 'test' their style is of no use to them frankly and probably of no use to the person either.

At the time, I was still under the impression that He wanted to learn another Style, as the OP did imply.

It is clarified in the replies that follow.

 

[Tez3]

At the time, I was still under the impression that He wanted to learn another Style, as the OP did imply.

It is clarified in the replies that follow.

We have enough trouble with people thinking you can walk into an MMA gym and see people beating each other up as it is so I needed to point out that that's not what we do. Even if he wants to learn another style, MMA isn't necessarily the one he needs if he wants to spar.

 

[Cyriacus]

We have enough trouble with people thinking you can walk into an MMA gym and see people beating each other up as it is so I needed to point out that that's not what we do. Even if he wants to learn another style, MMA isn't necessarily the one he needs if he wants to spar.

Fair
I dont know too much about that side of MMA - Im fortunate enough to have learnt about its not-during-competition elements after starting training, so Im without preconception

 

[WC_lun]

Most tai Chi is not taught for self defense, but rather health. If you want to learn to fight, first make sure that what you are learning focuses on that. Make sure that when you are training for self defense, there are underlying concepts and principles to the system (a good tai chi school does have these) as well as a solid training regemin. This gives you a solid base to rely upon if you do have to fight.

Tai Chi is very hard to use in real combat unless very experienced. Its not that it is any worse or better than other martial arts, it is just in the nature of how it aproaches fighting. Redirecting direct line, hard attacks is not easy. In a sporting enviroment, with safety equipment like gloves on, it becomes even more difficult. Before you go out testing what you know, test it in your training hall. Talk to your sifu about your concerns. Any decent sifu will make sure they are addressed in some manner.

 

[Tez3]

Fair
I dont know too much about that side of MMA - Im fortunate enough to have learnt about its not-during-competition elements after starting training, so Im without preconception

Some MMA haters who do TMA's are disappointed when they see we train exactly as they do lol!

 

[Cyriacus]

Some MMA haters who do TMA's are disappointed when they see we train exactly as they do lol!

I cant remember where I heard this, but, and this isnt exact, "The best way to get good at punching, is by punching. How and what You punch comes into it, but one things for sure: We're all learning how to throw a punch, even if the punch is different. And theres only so many ways to do that. How many styles dont have a straight punch of some sort?"

 

[Tez3]

I cant remember where I heard this, but, and this isnt exact, "The best way to get good at punching, is by punching. How and what You punch comes into it, but one things for sure: We're all learning how to throw a punch, even if the punch is different. And theres only so many ways to do that. How many styles dont have a straight punch of some sort?"

MMA uses TMA techniques so if it works we do it. Sorry only short answers today am on phone in a Northern English airport my effort for the Olympics lol..annoying foreigners arriving lol.

 

[K-man]

I see... Alright. I still wish to continue Tai Chi though in order for me to learn how to relax and because, I still want it to be my martial art. Also, what is Cross Training?

@K-Man

I've been doing it for... I'd estimate a year or more. Though, I want to learn more because, I'm kind of interested in learning how to fight efficiently and will work hard to do so. It'd teach a lot of good experiences, I'd hope. I eventually, if I ever get good enough, would like to try Chen Style.

OK. Cross Training is training a different style of martial art to complement your main style. In that context I teach karate but train aikido to give me a greater understanding of my karate.

As you have only been training Tai Chi Quan for a year so so, I wouldn't be looking at any other style for some time. It takes a long time with a good teacher to get to the stage where you could use Tai Chi for self defence. If you want to have a martial art for self defence in a sort time, then you might have to change styles. If you are happy to keep going with your Tai Chi, then give youself a few more years then perhaps look at something like wing chun to add to your training. I have a couple of mates who have added Tai Chi to their karate but I'm not sure that would work in reverse. :asian:

 

[Supra Vijai]

MMA uses TMA techniques so if it works we do it. Sorry only short answers today am on phone in a Northern English airport my effort for the Olympics lol..annoying foreigners arriving lol.

Aren't you glad I wasn't one of those annoying foreigners? Work wanted a few of us to head over but I'd miss too much training time here so declined

 

[Tez3]

Aren't you glad I wasn't one of those annoying foreigners? Work wanted a few of us to head over but I'd miss too much training time here so declined

But you're not a foreigner, as an Aussie you're one of us! besides no flights from Oz come in where I am. Americans coming in though lol! they seem surprised to see cops with guns though.
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/Content/Destinations

 

[Supra Vijai]

But you're not a foreigner, as an Aussie you're one of us! besides no flights from Oz come in where I am. Americans coming in though lol! they seem surprised to see cops with guns though.
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/Content/Destinations

Sigh... so even when I want to take you up on your offer of that guided tour of the UK, the universe conspires against us

 

[FluidSound]

We have enough trouble with people thinking you can walk into an MMA gym and see people beating each other up as it is so I needed to point out that that's not what we do. Even if he wants to learn another style, MMA isn't necessarily the one he needs if he wants to spar.

Isn't MMA just a way of stating that you use both striking and grappling forms of martial arts? Anyways, I'm more or less stating, I want to learn application of my art more efficiently through fighting with others. Though, the day of that seems far less simple than it use to be.

Most tai Chi is not taught for self defense, but rather health. If you want to learn to fight, first make sure that what you are learning focuses on that. Make sure that when you are training for self defense, there are underlying concepts and principles to the system (a good tai chi school does have these) as well as a solid training regemin. This gives you a solid base to rely upon if you do have to fight.

Tai Chi is very hard to use in real combat unless very experienced. Its not that it is any worse or better than other martial arts, it is just in the nature of how it aproaches fighting. Redirecting direct line, hard attacks is not easy. In a sporting enviroment, with safety equipment like gloves on, it becomes even more difficult. Before you go out testing what you know, test it in your training hall. Talk to your sifu about your concerns. Any decent sifu will make sure they are addressed in some manner.

My Tai Chi instructor tends to show us how to apply Tai Chi in order to have a better understanding of what we're doing. He's quite strict with me, because he probably sees potential in me. I must learn the "Ten Important Points" of Yang Cheng-fu, the stances (Horse stance, half horse stance, the stance of seven, the archer stance, stool stance, snake stance, etc...), and I'm only done with the first Lu so far. There are 4 Lus for me to learn (I'm learning long form Tai Chi. 86.) After I learn those, he'll probably start me on application form and even possibly allow me to do sword, fan, or any other weapon form. We also practice Tiu Shou (Pushing hands) to get a better feel. Though, my biggest problem is apparently, relaxing.

Often times, my back may not be straight, my knee may be too stiff or my shoulders are lifted. I suppose that part will take time. Still, I do understand it takes a long time and work to get good at it. Especially the application and such. I treat Tai Chi, not as just a meditation, but a martial art. That was it's original purpose after all, no?

OK. Cross Training is training a different style of martial art to complement your main style. In that context I teach karate but train aikido to give me a greater understanding of my karate.

As you have only been training Tai Chi Quan for a year so so, I wouldn't be looking at any other style for some time. It takes a long time with a good teacher to get to the stage where you could use Tai Chi for self defence. If you want to have a martial art for self defence in a sort time, then you might have to change styles. If you are happy to keep going with your Tai Chi, then give youself a few more years then perhaps look at something like wing chun to add to your training. I have a couple of mates who have added Tai Chi to their karate but I'm not sure that would work in reverse. :asian:

I see. Well, I guess I could do that. Still, even if I learn a different style, I wish to continue Tai Chi. I have considered boxing for sport, but I'm not rich and can only stick to so many things at once.

 

[oaktree]

Hi FluidSound,

I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring

I am unsure what you mean by sparring. Frankly there is plenty of drills in Taijiquan that should give you plenty to work with.
Here are some links to see som of the more martial side in Chen Taijiquan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_CC3GE18M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRUTrTmv4Dg&feature=related

If you are practicing your Tuishou like this, your teacher is teaching you Qinna, application, 2 man drills than that and your form is alot already.
Sparring will not help your Taijiquan until you are developed enough through Tuishou. You need to understand Tuishou how to listen, stick and yield, redirect which will far benefit your ability in using Taijiquan for self defense than going out and sparring like say in Karate.

I want to be able to practice and apply what I know, against someone that's willing to fight.

This will show you levels in which you go through till you get to a stage were you do free form exchanges. Again it all starts at Tuishou
http://en.renguangyi.net/articles/combat.html
I do not know your teacher or his methods but be patient with your practice if you have questions and concerns talk to your teacher about it, You do not need to learn to spar
to understand the principles of Taijiquan but you need to know the principles of Taijiquan in order to spar using Taijiquan principles.