Where can we find the American Kenpo Principles?

[rmcrobertson]

All human languages and ways of understanding--science included, just like math--are abstractions, and therefore permanently divorced from reality. "The map is not the territory," in other words.

With the sciences, we get about as close as we can to actually describing the physical universe as it, "really," is. The question isn't whether the sciences offer a perfect way of understanding reality--it's whether they offer a better fit with reality, a more-powerful set of explanations, and better predictions of what happens next.

There are several consequences of applying scientific methodology to martial arts; some are good, some not so good.

1. A systematization of knowledge that is present, but scattered and relatively useless, throughout other martial arts systems and their histories.

2. A rationalization of training that derives from a better understanding of what martial arts are.

3. A tendency towards mystification--in the particular case of kenpo, a) the tendency to mystify by elevating pseudo-science (NLP, for example; the talk one reads about how the brain works, for another) to the level of science, or to b) mystify by claiming that one's particular method applies perfectly to a, "street," reality that doesn't exist (for example, the tendency to see the world as filled with threats that come from movies), or to c) mystify by claiming that endless training in this new! special! scientific! style will take care of all the, "ninjas in the parking lots." (Mr. Chap'el's excellent phrase.)

4. A tendency to separate the mechanical aspects of training from others that are equally important, in order to, "improve," or to, "rationalize," or to, "make more efficient," or to, "speed up," the process of learning. Here, for example, an instructor might quote Bruce Lee a lot, or eliminate techniques from the system that, "don't work," or throw out the forms because, "they don't help you fight," all in the service of pure, "efficiency." Here, it is important to remember not only that we train animals but we educate people--it is important to remember that the sciences depend on good theory and the development of knowledge, not merely the hyperefficient gathering of facts that don't mean anything without understanding.

5. A tendency to separate the mechanical aspects of training from everything else, grounded on a) an inadequate understanding of what, "martial science," is, and b) a refusal to understand that part of what is really going on is commodification (making something intangible into a solid, sellable object) in a capitalist economy.

6. A confusion of martial arts teaching and practice with what, say, a good physicist does. Should martial artists apply the lessons science has to teach about objectivity, information-gathering, the development of theory? Absolutely. Should martial artists pretend that what they're doing isn't an art, but a pure science? Absolutely not.

Oh well. I still say that one of the more-important things to learn from the history of science is how easy it is to lie to others and to yourself, with, "science."

Real science is slow, tedious, and prone to mistakes that have to be checked by others. That's not a bad practical lesson to learn for martial arts, either.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Yep. But we've been down that road and around that bush already, haven't we. You made a great point on another post about people using shortcuts due to mental laziness. Among those listed, "to feel is to believe". And yet, how can you judge a thing without an experience of it?

Responding to subtleties from between the lines that may be simple projections by myself, percieved as bait: You have not stepped in to see what Doc does, or why; nor have you any idea as to what I do with NLP in the martial arts context. Science? By strict definitions, far from it. Useful? Replicable results? Yep. Absolutely. With too many variables in the interaction leading to the result to successfully isolate specifc cause/effect variables. Therefore, destined to remain in the realm of pseudo-science. (And remember, Robert: Not all NLP afficianadoes are glassy-eyed new age wannabes, using Timeline therapy to explore past lives or feel better about their deficient personalities).

You will note the absence of comments in my history regarding Mr. Tatum's training methods and philosophies on kenpo. Simple reason: Never been there; never done that. As you wrote once before as a quote from one of your fave auths: Who is speaking?

Science in kenpo will always bump into the same challenges science in the world faces. That guy with the German name who talked about looking at kitties in boxes...the act of observing a thing, changes the thing. So science provides us with ideas which are, by thier very nature, defunct at the time they are explored. Tainted from conception, to birth, and on. Yet this tainted science, applied, allows us to drive cars that run on multiple contained explosions, live in houses made of artificial stone, and explore such concerns as science in kenpo over information highways carrying bits of complex data through the air around us. What if we measure the value of a thing by it's usefulness, rather than it's ability to fall within a pre-determined criteria of academic integrity?

There is always more to learn; more to be explored. Using models for containing and defining information in a given context -- in this case, kenpo -- has distinct advantages and disadvantages. The flexibility of the model limits the data or events that can be accounted for by it. A good model will take and/or drive exploration into greater territory. But until a TOE is successfully adopted in kenpo, there will also be new events in the field that can not be accounted for in a previous model, without expanding or modifying it. This does not require pseudo-science; merely, the admission that a thing noted can't be accounted for, and that the model must stretch at some point to allow for it; to incorporate it. Then complementary models can be explored, discarded as defunct if they fail to provide the necessary accomodations, or new models can be concieved of to account for the new thing. Happens all the time in science. Constant exploration into the "what's next" of what we don't know is what drives the fascination of our new-world explorers.

The history of science is filled with concurrant discoveries by different and unrelated explorers. Commodification? Or one of the next logical places for exploration to take an inquiring mind on a simple road? How disappointed some will be when history bears out that some explorations and modifications were not conducted in the name of profit, nor for the fame or ego satisfaction of the explorers; rather, for the simple joy of looking under a rock or around a corner to see what's there.

D.

 

[pete]

boy, you guys are takin' all the fun out of hittin' things...

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

boy, you guys are takin' all the fun out of hittin' things...

I'm thinkin I like this perspective more and more. Spot on.

D.

 

[rmcrobertson]

I mentioned neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) because its origins can easily be traced back to the network of ideas giving rise to phenomena like Scientology and the host of other science-like ideas promulgated by John W. Campbell, the great editor of, "Analog Science Fiction," among others.

As for what Mr. Tatum teaches, I'll be spending a happy if horrified evening getting hit with that particular truck.

One of the things I learned? In martial arts, theory is no substitute for practice.

 

[distalero]

All human languages and ways of understanding--science included, just like math--are abstractions, and therefore permanently divorced from reality. "The map is not the territory," in other words.
.

Man oh man, good post. The only thing I would say concerns the first two sentences. Abstractions aren't divorced from reality ("divorced" is an abstraction in itself), they fall WITHIN reality; the map IS the territory, is your mind, is the ground you stand on, is the rocks, trees, blue lines depicted), is..................(to the rising crescendo of 200 kazoos): us. Just us.

And it's also the heavy bag I now go out in the garage to mildly irritate.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

As for what Mr. Tatum teaches, I'll be spending a happy if horrified evening getting hit with that particular truck.

One of the things I learned? In martial arts, theory is no substitute for practice.

Amen. Now if I can only get my freakin schedule clear to spend my time where my heart is.