When you don't want to train...

[Bruno@MT]

Regardless of whether I feel like it or not, I just go unless I simply cannot make it.

If I don't go because I have a good excuse, then the next step will be to stay home because of a bad excuse.
If I don't go because I have a bad excuse, then the next step is to only go if I feel like it.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Only you know the "truth" about yourself and feelings to go to training...(it always will be hard work) and it is easy to be lazy...and NOT GO...to class

Next for every hour of class...everyone should be training at least 5 hours or more per class hour at home...IF YOU DO NOT TRAIN OR PRACTICE AT HOME....you heart is NOT IN IT!

...As in any activity....NO heart...NO sense continue...It should be something you enjoy learning and doing...

..suggestion find another marital arts school...Maybe JUDO? ..it is more than you think...

It is easy to be lazy...especially if you do not look forward to class....

Two months...is telling you...it is something...you do not like doing...

Most people want to be a martial artist....NOT many will go thru for "what it takes" ...and it takes lots of hardwork outs..

Push-ups,
Sit-ups
Jump roping
squats
kicks
punches
bag works
running
etc...excerise will be endless

those are some of the suffs you need to do weekly and often...
ONLY those who love doing it...will DO WHAT IT TAKES....

Aloha.....we all get lazy time to time too.....(but never stop the training..)

 

[Bruno@MT]

Next for every hour of class...everyone should be training at least 5 hours or more per class hour at home...IF YOU DO NOT TRAIN OR PRACTICE AT HOME....you heart is NOT IN IT!

Excuse me? Who are you to judge me?

I try to practise at home several times per week, and usualy I train about as much hours per week on my own as I have class hours (3 to 4 hours on average).

But by your reasoning, If I have 2 times 1.5 class hour per week (3 hours) then you say that unless I practise 15 hours per week (spread over only 5 days-> at least 3 hours per day) my heart is not in it?

So I suppose either you don't have kids, or you let your partner do the hard work so that you can do what you want? And you probably don't have a home that needs renovation, or any other things that complicate life? How fortunate for you.

Some of us have a life that consists of more than MA. I go to every class and practise as much in my free time as my situation allows, which is far less than your proposed 5 hours. And if you think that this is a measure of whether one's heart is in it, then you have some serious growing up to do.

 

[RubberDuck]

Next for every hour of class...everyone should be training at least 5 hours or more per class hour at home...IF YOU DO NOT TRAIN OR PRACTICE AT HOME....you heart is NOT IN IT!

Hmm, in that case I may as well give up now! I just don't have that sort of time. I have a 2.5hr class and get about 3-4 hrs of other exercise/strength training done in the week.

By those rules, anyone who has dependants to look after or long hours at work would never be able to train a martial art.

Anyway. I'm enjoying it again and I'm progressing. Just because I have other demands on my time doesn't mean that I'm not going to get something out of my MA class.

 

[RubberDuck]

Some of us have a life that consists of more than MA. I go to every class and practise as much in my free time as my situation allows

Cross-post. Thank goodness for that. I panicked a bit when I did the maths!!

Relieved that my 3-4hrs outside of class doesn't sound that paltry now.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Rule of thumb- was suggested by a former Sensi (his beliefs pass on to us) One hour class and added at least 5 hours of home training.....

Another Rule of thumb (S).....Priorty of lifes....We found Family first...
2nd priorties..is our work (job)...mainly because it supports the Family or families....

Lastly or 3rd: can be Martial arts training....fishing..hiking..or any other hobbies you wish to be...

Please (BRUNO@mt) ....we have NO right to judge you or anyone...EACH of us have been brought up differently.....

We were sharing our thoughts (good sometimes to keep to oneself)

We meant NO harm or hurts here.....

Important thing here...If you do not enjoy what you are doing? What would be the best solutions?
---------------------------

Presently unemploy..working PT a few hours a week, A daughter (Senior- High school) getting looking forward to going to college....

A son- juinor in College this coming year....a big mortage that the banks will NOT work with us....

just like everybody else...lots of bills.. too (Bruno@mt) ....

--------------------------------------

Bruce Lee became successful because of his 8-12 hours of training per day at times...

Masiko Kimura (the JUDO God) pre-ww11- aveage 900 push-ups a day and train almost 9 hours day....READ about his life...very interesting (the Kimura)

Those that train the hardest? will in the end..be the hardest to fight!

Winners KNOW....to be the best...means practice and more practice...train and more training.....

Sorry to all those I may have offended.................

------------------------------------------------------

We have many kinds of students....we love to teach those who "really wants' to learn more and do more too........( parents that drop off kids-and don't want to be there....makes teaching them a little more challenging to get them to want to learn!)....

......one push-up today...tommorrow will work on achieving two push-ups...at end of month-go to three?

Aloha

PS: Thank-you Bruno@mt... for bringing your point of view- NO offense intended NOTE here: My comments was to "Rubber duck" ...sorry if it offend you or anyone....NOT meant to be that way...!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Have you ever notice...those that love doing there hobbies...can do it forever?

a guy we know...comes home from work...change his clothes..goes to work on his yard almost 7 days a week.

Guess who has the nicest yard? ...yep that guy!

Hawaii is well known for canoe racing- single,doubles, teams and inter-island raciing in all forms....guess who usually wins? those that train the most...many of them at the end of work...is paddling dailey (they know they need to and also enjoy being winners at the canoe racing...

The more times you put into your hobbies...one will improve the skills...

Family first (time here should be alot more) if one has a family...two work(your job) should be second...third can be anything you want...

Everyone should have a balance that works...younger kids under 13 years..LOTs of your time is needed here...

over 13 -18 as much as they allow you too..

over 18....when both of you can enjoy moment together, more the better

Aloha,

Time management: Learn about it and learn to apply and use it...many forms and style too...to use!

Do one week- a time log- of everything you do at every minute...count the work times,break times,driving times,tv times,work out times,class times doing nothing times...every minute.....
------------------------

One technique for people who want more time for themselves...

List all the things you want to accomplish this week..
Next: priortise the list..into 3 columns

next: The A list-must do list
B list not as important..yet would add to accompisments list
C list...can wait and wait list - washing the car, cleaning the bowling balls..

DO IT NOW - tell yourself- and do it NOW! the top of the list as they become available ( may need to do the number two on the list and move to number three because number 3 can be done now! ...always keep options open...

Do NOW works...as the time becomes available to you....

Usually by thrusday...the most of the A and B list..get done...for us anyway....

When behind...one of the best ways to get ahead.....DO IT NOW list...is to do it!

Funny guys who have no hobbies or activtives...always say they have NO time?

Aloha, Saving time......is it possible? best to make use of it NOW!

PS: The last time we tried to save time? ...we lost money!!

 

[wolfeyes2323]

Greetings - I am not judging you , but, I do have to agree with
"Next for every hour of class...everyone should be training at least 5 hours or more per class hour at home...IF YOU DO NOT TRAIN OR PRACTICE AT HOME....you heart is NOT IN IT! '

If we assume that you are wanting to be a True

 

[Bruno@MT]

That equation simply does not make sense. According to that statement:
If I train 1 hour per week, and then train 5 hours in my free time, my heart would be in it.
If I train 3 hours per week and still train 5 hours in my free time, my heart would not be in it.
You have to agree that that does not make sense.

I agree that to reach perfection, MA has to be your one and only mission.
Only a select few can manage that. Making the free time to dedicate in total 6 hours out of my already busy schedule and not missing a single class means that my heart is really in it, or I would not do it.

 

[wolfeyes2323]

Sorry the last message got away from me .

I am not being judgmental, This is my frank opinion
nothing more, take it for what it is worth.

There is a difference between a hobbyist and a warrior.
There is a difference between playing at something and
living it.

The Only constant (besides God) in the universe is Change.
We can not maintain a practice at the same level,
we are either getting stronger and sharper or we
are getting weaker and duller.

We can make all the excuses we want for not training,
but, while we do not train our enemies do train,
while we become weak and complacent ,
or enemies become stronger and bolder.

Do not count the hours, use all the time you have
to train, There is NOTHING you do in life that can
not be related to training, There is nothing but training
in the life of a warrior except using this training.

Even time with you Wife and Children is using
this training ,I will give you a example ,
You take your wife and kids to the mall to shop,
you are their defender, the last line of defense between
them , and a hostile world, Can you really afford not
to be vigilant , are you watching out for those
who prey on the weak, are you watching for cars
and other dangers, are you watching the people
in the mall , for stackers and perverts , are you
doing everything you can, to be sure that your
family is safe ? Would you defend the old, the
helpless, would you stop injustice if you saw it ?
This is Martial living .

Can you have fun, Yes, can you ever let down and
be care free, No , not ever again, not in this world,
not with the onus of keeping your family safe being
squarely on your shoulders,.

Your home is your kingdom, you are the warrior who
protects it and those who you call your own, your
family , your friends, YOU must be prepared,
you are the one that has to be ready in a emergency,

Do you know first aid ? CPR ?
Learning this is martial training.

can you handle seeing
people broken , and bleeding, can you help in a emergency ?
this is the Martial Mind.

Are your physical good enough to deal with multiple attackers ?
If not, then what are you going to do if 3 guys attack your wife,

Can you afford not to train ?
Not to be consumed by training ?

You can quit training , because you suck, as you age your
fighting ability will become worse, you will suck more with
each passing year, and if you are called on to defend
your family , you will be nothing but road kill.

IF you have a martial heart , there is no way that you
will give in to your own complacency , your own laziness,
your own desire to be carefree ,

If you have a family your child hood is over,
suck it up, and start taking serious responsibility
for being the protector and defender of what is
good, and pure in this world.

Romney^..^
PS ( I am married have 4 children who are now 17-25,
have a day job, my own MA school, and teach a college
level course in database management, I am at the school
4 days a week and meet to train elsewhere 2 other days a week,
I teach MA 12 hours a week , and train with others another 6 ,
I train on my own in the morning , and at night, I read , think
breath Budo , I have walked this walk and hope you will also
choose this path, in this world we need warriors to fight the
chaos and injustice )

 

[Bruno@MT]

we are either getting stronger and sharper or we
are getting weaker and duller.

Yep, but it is possible to get better at different paces. One does not have to sacrifice all in the pursuit of MA. One can do so, but not doing so does not mean you are getting weaker.

We can make all the excuses we want for not training,
but, while we do not train our enemies do train,
while we become weak and complacent ,

Yes, but as I train x hours per week, I am training and I am getting better.

Do not count the hours, use all the time you have
to train, There is NOTHING you do in life that can
not be related to training, There is nothing but training
in the life of a warrior except using this training.

Hmm. In the life of software programmers, staying on top of things is pretty important too. Since that is my source of income, I'd say I cannot sacrifica ALL time to both.

Even time with you Wife and Children is using
this training ,I will give you a example ,
You take your wife and kids to the mall to shop,
you are their defender, the last line of defense between
them , and a hostile world, Can you really afford not
to be vigilant , are you watching out for those
who prey on the weak, are you watching for cars
and other dangers, are you watching the people
in the mall , for stackers and perverts , are you
doing everything you can, to be sure that your

Isn't that a bit paranoid? Are you really convinced that people are lurking everywhere, waiting for you to drop your attention for a second and then attack you? If that is a reality you live in, then moving to a safer place is a much better investement in your family's safety.

family is safe ? Would you defend the old, the
helpless, would you stop injustice if you saw it ?

That depends. My first responsibility is to my family.

Are your physical good enough to deal with multiple attackers ?
If not, then what are you going to do if 3 guys attack your wife,

Can you afford not to train ?
Not to be consumed by training ?

Probably not. Are you good enough to fight of 100 armed ninja?
No? If so, you should train even harder...
My point: there is no point in being overly paranoid about far fetched situations. And if such a scenario is not far fetched to you, then moving to a low crime area is much better for your family than training 8 hours per day. Especially since you are not with them every second of their life.

in this world we need warriors to fight the
chaos and injustice )

We also need people who dedicate their lives to science, or else we'd still live in caves.

Look, getting through life with your family requires a balance of many things. Self defense is only 1 of those things. And while it is laudable that some people dedicate their lives to MA, that does not make those in-between worthless, cowards, lazy, or anything else.
Without US, you wouldn't have the world you live in.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

I believe that the original poster was asking for help in rejuvinating his motivation. Telling him that he will never be a decent martial artist unless he trains harder is not productive, in my opinion. We all know that it is a fairly simple equation...the more you invest in your MA training, the more benefits you will reap (ignoring considerations such as natural athleticism, age, etc). But this line of reasoning engages a higher part of your brain, where delayed gratification wins out over instant gratification.

What the OP needs is a way to bridge that gap. Heck, I myself need a way to bridge that gap. I love my kenpo, I think about it all the time, and I look forward to my 3 training sessions per week. But I don't train on my own, because I have difficulty in motivating myelf to train outside of a structured environment. Does this mean I'm a loser and should quit, because my heart isn't in it? No way. It simply means that I need to get creative in finding a way to motivate myself.

I think some previous posters had excellent ideas:

1) Never skip a training class at your dojo. No excuses. There are some days (especially at that time of the month, if you know what I mean) when I attend training not because I want to, but because I must.

2) Find a training partner, and structure weekly training sessions with that person outside your regular classes. This will help you add to the total number of hours you train, and provide useful input to correct any mistakes you may be perpetuating in your katas, etc. This helps with motivation, because it is embarrassing to cancel a session with someone you respect.

I would also add to this, by suggesting that you set small goals that are easily reached on a weekly or monthly basis. These goals should be concrete, not vague, and they should be things that you can master within your regular training regime. Completing small goals gives us a feeling of accomplishment.

We all go through ups and downs in our motivation. Sometimes it is enough just to survive your journey through the valley, knowing that a sunlit mountain peak is coming soon. We can't soar with the eagles every day of our lives.

Jen

 

[thecrow]

best advice i could give, is train with love, figure out why you love it and reinforce that, and mixed up your training get creative do new things to train the same thing, there is enough to never get board.

 

[zepedawingchun]

I think some previous posters had excellent ideas:

1) Never skip a training class at your dojo. No excuses. There are some days (especially at that time of the month, if you know what I mean) when I attend training not because I want to, but because I must.

2) Find a training partner, and structure weekly training sessions with that person outside your regular classes. This will help you add to the total number of hours you train, and provide useful input to correct any mistakes you may be perpetuating in your katas, etc. This helps with motivation, because it is embarrassing to cancel a session with someone you respect.

I would also add to this, by suggesting that you set small goals that are easily reached on a weekly or monthly basis. These goals should be concrete, not vague, and they should be things that you can master within your regular training regime. Completing small goals gives us a feeling of accomplishment.

We all go through ups and downs in our motivation. Sometimes it is enough just to survive your journey through the valley, knowing that a sunlit mountain peak is coming soon. We can't soar with the eagles every day of our lives.

Jen

Great advice, Jen.

I have something to add, since the poster is a Wing Chun practitioner.

RubberDuck, please don’t give up. What you are feeling is normal for most beginning Wing Chun students. Unfortunately, this is common among almost every WC practitioner at the start. So, let me explain.

In most WC lineages, the first year is focused heavily on the first form, Siu Nim Tao (or Siu Lim, Siu Lum, Sil Lum, however you may pronounce) and what is in it. And with it, the principles, theories, concepts, and the execution of the hand positions, all which are the most important parts of the form. Very little is done for movement, ie, what we call footwork. The importance of everything in SNT can’t be stressed enough to beginning students. It is the building blocks of everything that follows in the system. The reason for this is because, if you don’t understand the how and why of the hand positions, and can’t get the execution of the hand positions to correctly work for you in a stationary stance, they will be of no use to you when you need to move or start applying footwork. However, being told that is not enough to keep you from getting bored and losing your desire to go to class.

Traditionally, the 1st form was broken into 3 parts (Siu Nim Tao, Sahm Bai Fut, Muy Fa Ng Jern or Little Idea, Bow 3 times to Budda, and Plum Flower 5 Palms) and taught one part at a time. Months were spent on just the first 3rd of the form (sometimes as much as 6 months, maybe more), just standing in yee chi kim yeung ma (or whatever stance your lineage uses) performing the beginning 3rd of the form. And standing in one spot, doing the first 3rd of SNT (actually any form) over and over, along with whatever hand position drills which needed to be taught, is downright boring to a person. A lot of people give up in this beginning stage because they don’t see the big picture to come, unable to understand what this slow, teedious, beginning phase has to do with learning martial arts. Unfortunately, many modern sifus, in an attempt to keep students from becoming bored, introduce some footwork or too much movement too soon, or find other ways to keep them excited about training so the student doesn’t quit.

Also, what we do looks different from what the other arts do. We don’t have or utilize the same type of techniques like other arts (karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kempo, or any of the other hard Chinese systems of MAs), no long stroke punches, power blocks, swinging kicks, flashy jump kicks, and so on. So the beauty of Wing Chun’s effectiveness is lost to the beginning student. It’s not until the student learns and has a better understanding of SNT that chi sau and the 2nd form, called Chum Kiu (Finding the Bridge), is taught. True footwork training begins then. Now it gets really fun and even more confusing for the student.

Plus, not to mention the fact perceived progress, to the beginning student, appears to be slow or non-existent. In fact, there is progress, but you don’t see it because most of the time, you’re trying to compare your skills to your senior brothers and sisters. In reality, it only proves they know more than you, as it should be. You must compare your skills to junior students, others who came after you (at least 3 – 6 months afterward) to see any progress.

Wing Chun rewards the person who is patient, artistic, creative, and someone who thinks outside the box. Those kind of people excel and learn quickly. And most people fall into at least one of those catagories. But, even if you don't have any of those attributes, you can still learn WC quickly and effectively. That's how it was designed.

My advice to you is to be patient. Do as you’re been doing, talk yourself into ways that help you want to train. Also, try to socialize in class with more of your fellow students. Tell them how you feel about your lack of desire to train, they’ll understand. Students training in Wing Chun tend to become very close after awhile, they become like a family, very tight and close knit. It’s because of the in close techniques, the sensitivity training, and intimacy that develops between WC students in constant physical contact while developing skills. The members of the school become like a family, brothers and sisters helping each other to become better and better at the art. In many cases, the students profess to be willing to die for their Wing Chun brothers or sisters if called upon to assist them in a combat situation.

 

[wolfeyes2323]

best advice i could give, is train with love, figure out why you love it and reinforce that, and mixed up your training get creative do new things to train the same thing, there is enough to never get board.

Greetings – this is great advise,
I was given a outline of 8 important concepts which
determine the level of your art, if you fall at even one of them, To quote
“ you Kung-fu nogood “ , The last of these eight was TRUE LOVE,
If you do not have this love you will not be able to train past the boredom,
over the plateau s, through the down times, and past the obstacles .

You must also love others, it is only a love for others, Humility and a sense of duty that
forces us to intercede to stop injustice to the innocent and weak,
without this love we are selfish, and egotistical and we are more likely to
take advantage of the weak then we are to help them.

The Origins or Martial arts is in training to serve and protect,
True love is the reason for the sacrifice.
Romney^..^

 

[wolfeyes2323]

It was said:
“One does not have to sacrifice all in the pursuit of MA. One can do so,
but not doing so does not mean you are getting weaker.”

How long have you been training ?
Remember your words and think about them again in 25 years.

When we first begin training, a small amount of effort invested will
yield a large gain. When you have nothing , there is nothing to lose,
Any effort at all will make us better.

As you achieved more proficiency in your art,
investing more time and training has diminishing returns,
and if you do not train , even for one of your scheduled times
you are sliding backwards, and becoming less proficient.

When you have achieved a high level of proficiency You
will have much to lose, and it will slip away very quickly.

At this point the equation is reversed, to gain even a little
requires a larger investment of time and training .

When all is consumed by training and using, it is understanding
that continues to grow.

Martial arts are body , mind, spirit
when we begin it is the body which is trained and disciplined,
Increasingly the mind must be trained and disciplined ,
as we age it is the spirit which becomes stronger,

the Heart/Mind is one with heaven and earth
Understanding this is what keeps us on the path .

Romney^..^

 

[RubberDuck]

I'm amazed this thread is still going! Just wanted to say thanks - there's some really great things to think about here - especially relevant today because I missed last week's training due to holiday and am now back to those familiar butterfly feelings thinking of the session tonight.

Oh Jen, I'm a she (I know, my username isn't totally revealing, heh) so know that time of the month feeling very well Also have two only-just school age children so that adds a whole other dimension to finding the time to train! I think I'm doing fairly well though, I try and do *something* every day even if it's not for as long as I'd like - SLT, skills, and working general fitness/strength. It's becoming easier as I go along - especially because I don't allow myself to bunk off, you're right, that's key.

zepedawingchun: really great advice there, thank you - I think bar one other person I'm the most junior member in my class. It's so easy (and stupid) to compare myself to the other more senior members then get frustrated at my lack of progress. I saw a fairly high level grading recently and what was required to achieve the grade was terrifying - still... one day at a time!

 

[wolfeyes2323]

you mention:

"Hmm. In the life of software programmers,
staying on top of things is pretty important too.
Since that is my source of income, I'd say I cannot sacrifica ALL time to both."


I have been a programmer and DBA for 27 years,
To protect you programs and your database, you
must come to know those who would invade or attack it.

You must learn to protect your machine, your database, your code,
this is strategy, it is knowing your self , your resources , and
knowing your opponents and their resources and tactics.

You can not leave vulnerabilities, or you will be exploited,
you can not afford to lose track of your enemies (intruders)
or ignore them, they are waiting.
You Must be one step ahead of them ,
and be able to thwart their efforts.

So what is different with this and enemies on the street ,
(at the mall) or in the ring , or training hall floor ?

Romney^..^

 

[wolfeyes2323]

it was mentioned :

Isn't that a bit paranoid? Are you really convinced that people are
lurking everywhere, waiting for you to drop your attention for a
second and then attack you? If that is a reality you live in,
then moving to a safer place is a much better investement in your family's safety.

Again, the difference between US is that I have walked this path for many years
and you are just beginning.

I have moved to a better Neighborhood , one with good schools, and
low crime, My children have grown up and moved back into the city,
I go to visit them, there are drug dealer and prostitutes on the corner,
there are shootings , murders, on the street around their apartments.

I walk with them to the stores, and coffee shops, etc, and help them
every chance I get, are there creeps , and derelicts watching, you bet,
I know these People (not personally, but I grew up around people just
like them) I know my enemies , I also know myself and what I am
capable of, I know my strengths and weaknesses, I am prepared
at all times, Do I want my lovely daughters living there , NO, but,
it is not my choice, so I deal with it.

My mother who is 84 years old still owns a house in my old neighborhood,
I have to go there and check on it , alone , at night , and yes it has
been broken into , and I have just Missed catching intruders,
Do I want to do this, NO, Who else is going to do it ?

I am sent out of town for training and conferences, to cities like
NY, LA, Philly , SF etc, I stay in hotels down town, and I
walk the streets at night , am I looking for trouble NO,
what is my alternative, hide in my hotel room, or get
drunk in the hotel bar , because I’m afraid to walk out the door ?

Yes there are people watching, don’t believe it go to the mall
and look for them, or better yet walk down town and watch
the people who are watching you, take the subways at night ,
take a walk in the park, they are their ..

Yes I have had encounter on the streets, yes I have avoided
many more, because I was vigilant .

Am I paranoid , No, I am Vigilant and I am ready.
When I leave the training hall , I do not leave my training behind
I do not leave my Martial mind and heart inside the walls of a building,
I take them with me out the door and out on the street,

I do not fear the reaper, I have so far managed to avoid him,
but in the end …

Romney^..^

 

[wolfeyes2323]

last two point ,

“Are you good enough to fight of 100 armed ninja?”

We can all place ourselves in a situation where we can not win,
this is fatal ground.
True martial arts is understanding this and avoiding these
situations and grounds.

I am good enough to avoid the fatal ground of fighting
100 armed ninja .



"We also need people who dedicate their lives to science, or else we'd still live in caves."

This is true, Are you one of these people ? , if so then you should most likely be
taking science classes, and leaving Martial Arts to the warriors among us.
It comes back to knowing ourselves.

I do not think that people who do not dedicate their selves to Martial Arts are
lazy or worthless etc, There are many necessary arts that form a society.

There are also many reasons to practice a physical art, Sport, health, competition
to name a few, and that is fine as well.

When I hear that someone is training a Martial Art, I assume that they are
training the Spirit/mind/body following the precepts of Ancient Martial
practices. If someone identifies their self in this manner, then , yes,
not training means you are lazy and I would like to help motivate you.

If this is not the case, then I do not really care how much time you
spend at a hobby, My only concern is that you not deceive yourself
either, for if you use a hobby to defend your life or the life of another,
you may indeed be short lived.

So where do you fit, it is a question which only has meaning for you,
(no reply requested)

Sorry if I offended you, this was not my intent,
Hopefully thinking of our discussion will help you know your self better,
and if this was accomplished then it was well worth the trouble
of all this typing .

In Budo
Romney^..^