When do people drop out?

[Lynne]

Not the most positive thread but I'm curious if there is a timeframe when people are more apt to drop out?

I've seen people drop out after one class. They were in a dobok so that means they paid for at least a month. Maybe they didn't take the trial class? Our instructors make trial classes rough so a prospective student knows what they are getting themselves into.

I guess I've seen students drop out at all levels. A few have dropped out at green belt. Green belt training begins after about 9 months of training and lasts at least another 9 months. Things are a little more challenging at green belt, more complicated combinations, Pyung Ahns Sam, Sa, and O. Still, I'm kind of surprised that someone would make it to green belt and quit.

I suppose I will see people dropping out at red belt, too.

What are the reasons people drop out?

 

[MA-Caver]

What are the reasons people drop out?

Money, boredom, dissatisfaction (including but not limited to disputes with the instructor or other students, frustration, expectations not met, etc.), moving to another city or another part of the city, family obligations, lost of interest, reached personal goals, lack of time or conflicting schedules.

Those are just off the top of my head.

 

[Makalakumu]

The longer you spend time in rank, the less likely you are to drop out. My teacher's teacher has some statistics on this. On average, 50% of white belts drop out.

 

[Lynne]

The longer you spend time in rank, the less likely you are to drop out. My teacher's teacher has some statistics on this. On average, 50% of white belts drop out.

Wow...50%. I know I've seen quite a few drop out at white belt, somewhere after one class and before the yellow belt test (approximately 8 weeks of training). I don't know what the attrition rates are at red belt or black belt, but I would agree that more have dropped out at white belt than higher ranks.

Maybe school owners should make at least two trial classes mandatory before joining. At our school, all ranks are in the same class except for specialized classes (black belt only; Il Gup preparation). Therefore, white belts are expected to do the same work (to the best of their ability) the rest of us are doing.

I understand the life reasons that MA-Caver is talking about as well.

 

[Drac]

Maybe school owners should make at least two trial classes mandatory before joining.

That how it was at the first dojo I trained at..Some STILL dropped out when during the first mild kumite with the Sensei they caught a mild smack and left saying " They did not pay to get beat up"...

 

[Lynne]

That how it was at the first dojo I trained at..Some STILL dropped out when during the first mild kumite with the Sensei they caught a mild smack and left saying " They did not pay to get beat up"...

That doesn't sound like being beat up by the way you are describing the situation. After a couple of trial classes, I would think they would know what to expect. Maybe they are making excuses because it's just not their thing.

On the otherhand, MA can be painful (whether it's 50 pushups or leg work) and I think a lot of people shy away from that. But Tang Soo Do classes are not BJJ or Krav Maga. We do have joint locks but we tap out when we need to. Still, I do here people whining every once in awhile. Ahh...whiners. There's a clue. They are probably not enjoying the pain!

 

[Drac]

That doesn't sound like being beat up by the way you are describing the situation. After a couple of trial classes, I would think they would know what to expect. Maybe they are making excuses because it's just not their thing.

I remained friends withe the assistant Sensei and he told me that story..Full padded hands and feet and he caught a slap to the cheek..He threw out his mouthguard and walked out..He did have to come back for his clothes and car keys...

 

[DMcHenry]

Students drop out for all different reasons, at all levels. It might not even be them - it can be the parents not willing or able to bring the kids to class. School, work, family, money, military, other hobbies, just about anything can cause a student to leave.

 

[jarrod]

i dropped out of several martial arts before i stuck with one. i try to keep that in mind whenever i take it personally after a student quits showing up. a coach can't be all things to all people.

jf

 

[Montecarlodrag]

It depends on the style and the system of the Dojang. If it's a degree-selling one, with good marketing system, it will hold students much longer (until they open their eyes to reality). It applies to all arts, not just TSD.

In my dojang we have a hard and strong system, which has the disadvantage of making students drop out very fast. I'm the only one left from hundreds of white belts. I remember one special class, when we had a very hard training. It was so brutal 10 guys never returned (no one was beaten up).
We have closed and reopened Dojang 3 times (lack of students).

Another TSD dojang, cousin of ours (I should say sister) always has a lot of students, many black belts, they even make their own tournaments. Why? ... Nice marketing, beautiful studio, training area with soft carpet, air conditioning in summer, heating in winter (here we can be as cold as -14 C, or as hot as 48 C), softer training, etc.

Of course there are many other factors to consider:

1- Time (work, school, family)
2- Money
3- Parents
4- don't like the style.
5- Lazyness
6- etc.

We offer up to 3 free trial sessions, so potential students can decide if our TSD is what they are looking for before joining.


Regards.

 

[Kwanjang]

Attrition is a major concern-with any business. The student(buyer) goes through several phases. #1.the novelty phase, this is when they are most likely to refer potential prospects to your studio. There are other phases the consumer goes through--we can discuss those some other time. A great analogy to the novelty phase is, for example, in 2001 I bought a Really nice 1972 Convertible Corvette Stingray. I thought of everyone I knew and drove it to their house to show them.

Unfortunately, The novelty phase does wear off. Then we are dealing with the law of diminishing return. For example; the first piece of, lets say, chocolate cake always tastes the best and anything after is not as rewarding a s the first piece. the same law applies to the martial art.

Some, never grow weary of the repetition. Others stop for the reasons mentioned in previous comments listed above.

 

[Lynne]

Sometimes we do have rough classes. If my muscles haven't recovered, I usually take a few days off from class. I wonder if that is the best thing to do because you then end up missing something important! I have been so sore I couldn't walk well for 4 - 5 days.

In fact, we have had classes that rough with people trying out (on occasion). It's not too surprising they don't come back.

 

[SA_BJJ]

Its not for everyone, they have this idea of what it is in their minds and when the training doesnt equate they quit. Some people just want the belt and not the knowledge...who knows why poeple do things.....

 

[Sukerkin]

The two simplest explanations that spring to mind for the drop out rate in martial arts are:

1) It's difficult and demanding.

"You can't take a couple of classes and be Bruce Lee?!. I'll stick to being a thug with a bat then ...". That's the big initial cause of loss.

When I started Lau Gar back in {muffled mumbling } our class was about 35 strong. Week Two there were 20. Week Three, 12. Week Four, 6. I was given to understand that that was typical and I can believe it. I was fit as the Butcher Dog and found the work-out/warm-up, with all it's stretching for enhanced movement to be a trial for months.

Then there was the full(ish) contact sparring - no pads except on the shins and no rules apart from no deliberate hard contact to the head or 'privates'. I loved it but a great many did not. The "Not paying to get beat up" line was commonly heard.

2) Achieved the goal and received a Black Belt {Oooh!}. This is the saddest cause of people leaving for me as I really believe that Black Belt is only the true start of building skill in an art, rather than just knowing the kata etc.

I've found that you can usually tell who is going to 'fold' with new beginners but the Shodan leavers are harder to spot.

 

[Lynne]

The two simplest explanations that spring to mind for the drop out rate in martial arts are:

1) It's difficult and demanding.

"You can't take a couple of classes and be Bruce Lee?!. I'll stick to being a thug with a bat then ...". That's the big initial cause of loss.

When I started Lau Gar back in {muffled mumbling } our class was about 35 strong. Week Two there were 20. Week Three, 12. Week Four, 6. I was given to understand that that was typical and I can believe it. I was fit as the Butcher Dog and found the work-out/warm-up, with all it's stretching for enhanced movement to be a trial for months.

Then there was the full(ish) contact sparring - no pads except on the shins and no rules apart from no deliberate hard contact to the head or 'privates'. I loved it but a great many did not. The "Not paying to get beat up" line was commonly heard.

2) Achieved the goal and received a Black Belt {Oooh!}. This is the saddest cause of people leaving for me as I really believe that Black Belt is only the true start of building skill in an art, rather than just knowing the kata etc.

I've found that you can usually tell who is going to 'fold' with new beginners but the Shodan leavers are harder to spot.

I haven't seen some of our cho dans in awhile and wonder if they have stopped training.

 

[girlbug2]

My EPAK sensei used to regularly comment on the drop out phenomenon, and often quoted the following statistic to the class: the belt at which students most frequently drop out is white belt, followed by first degree black. Third most frequent dropout rate is from the third degree browns.

It's obvious why so many drop out at white belt level, as mentioned by posters above. Not so obvious for the high first degree black belt drop out rate, but it is thought that first degree black is frequently the highest goal a student has set for himself, he achieves it, and never thought beyond that goal to what he was actually going to do with it. Perhaps also a first degree black is like much of the general public which believes that black belt rank is the pinnacle of the martial arts, automatic proof of ultimate proficiency; so what's the point of sticking around for second degree, third degree....must seem redundant to the uninformed person.

As for the third degree brown belts; that's when the pressure really starts to rise and the big test is looming. A lot of people decide that they really can't handle it then and there. Sad, to come that far and quit. I really pray that when I get there I have the gumption to continue no matter what.

 

[Lynne]

My EPAK sensei used to regularly comment on the drop out phenomenon, and often quoted the following statistic to the class: the belt at which students most frequently drop out is white belt, followed by first degree black. Third most frequent dropout rate is from the third degree browns.

It's obvious why so many drop out at white belt level, as mentioned by posters above. Not so obvious for the high first degree black belt drop out rate, but it is thought that first degree black is frequently the highest goal a student has set for himself, he achieves it, and never thought beyond that goal to what he was actually going to do with it. Perhaps also a first degree black is like much of the general public which believes that black belt rank is the pinnacle of the martial arts, automatic proof of ultimate proficiency; so what's the point of sticking around for second degree, third degree....must seem redundant to the uninformed person.

As for the third degree brown belts; that's when the pressure really starts to rise and the big test is looming. A lot of people decide that they really can't handle it then and there. Sad, to come that far and quit. I really pray that when I get there I have the gumption to continue no matter what.

I pray I can do it, too.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

You can do it, don't doubt that.
But, it's not going to be easy. You will need patience and strong will.
You will face injuries, boredom, challenges, etc. The only thing needed to overcome them is patience, strong will and commitment.

When I was color belt, I was not good, my skill was mediocre at best. But I kept working hard and training, with time I got better and better. People who had the gift, very skilled for MA dropped out because they had no commitment or will.

 

[SA_BJJ]

Commitment is something that we as people dont have enough of I think...I couldnt believe dropping out right before my BB test...thats just crazy.

 

[Gordon Nore]

2) Achieved the goal and received a Black Belt {Oooh!}. This is the saddest cause of people leaving for me as I really believe that Black Belt is only the true start of building skill in an art, rather than just knowing the kata etc.

I've found that you can usually tell who is going to 'fold' with new beginners but the Shodan leavers are harder to spot.

Technically, I'm somewhat guilty of #2. I trained regularly for eleven years prior to going for my black belt, except for about year off when I went back to school. So call it ten. About a year after making that rank, my interest trailed off a bit. I'm looking for something else right now, but it's hard to get motivated.

When I observed a class at my school years and years ago, I didn't know if it was something I could get into. I had no familiarity with Hapkido, and so I was a bit shocked when I saw wrists getting bent and people pounding the mats.

Similarly, I think for many working adults, making a commitment to do something two or three nights a week, it has to be something you really love in order to stick with over time.