What's the difference between Taiji and wrestling, or boxing?

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure but the fundamentals are what really matter. You could spend all of your time working fundamentals and learning to apply them without ever learning a single form. And your kung fu would be way ahead of the vast majority who inherit the entire system and practice a blue billion forms without any foundation. And your kung fu would still be true to the style, meaning: just because you didn’t learn the forms in no way means you didn’t learn that particular kung fu method. But what you learned, you made truly functional.

I still screw up sometimes on the left side of the empty hand forms. But so what? Perfection does not exist in this stuff. It is always just something to keep working on. It’s a process that never ends.

And that is actually a comforting thought. When I look at the night sky through my telescope, the vastness of it all is something I find comforting. In all of what exists, it gives me perspective and reminds me that my problems are not so big in this vast universe. Likewise, your kung fu, including your forms, are never perfect, never “done”, they are simply to be returned to over and over, and that is the process of never-ending practice. But I can throw off the pressure of thinking I need to be perfect.

Very well said. Thanks for that. Sometimes I feel that I should be farther along my path than I am, for multiple reasons. Patience. Virtuous harmony. Courage. Resolution of conflict. The Tao. All things I need to constantly remind myself of.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Even if you may make your form to be perfect, when you get older, your form will start to get not perfect day by day.

This is why I strongly suggest people to record what they can do on video. Don't wait until one day that you no longer be able to do it.

A: Dear master! Can you do Bruce Lee's triple kicks combo?
B: I can't do it today. But I have a video to show that I could do it when I was younger.

Except that isn’t why I practice. It doesn’t matter to me who sees it. Same with my horimono, it isn’t there to show it off.

 

[Flying Crane]

Very well said. Thanks for that. Sometimes I feel that I should be farther along my path than I am, for multiple reasons. Patience. Virtuous harmony. Courage. Resolution of conflict. The Tao. All things I need to constantly remind myself of.

We are all simply a work in progress. It is easy to forget that, and we need to be reminded from time-to-time.

 

[Flying Crane]

Except that isn’t why I practice. It doesn’t matter to me who sees it. Same with my horimono, it isn’t there to show it off.

The only people meant to see your forms or your practice methods are your teachers who taught you, your classmates with whom you train, and your students to whom you teach it. It was never meant to be performance art. Wanting to see someone’s forms is kinda like wanting to buy a house but insisting on looking at the builder’s toolkit.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Except that isn’t why I practice. It doesn’t matter to me who sees it. Same with my horimono, it isn’t there to show it off.

One day when you are 80 years old, you try to teach your students a technique but you no longer be able to do it well. Instead of for your students to learn a 80 years old man's technique (speed is slow, balance is weak), you can show your old video. You then tell your students that they should do like your old video and not like what you are doing today. It's sad. That day will come to everybody.

In my last class, I taught my students the "leg twist, leg block" combo. After the class, I send them my old video. To remain single leg balance after throwing just get harder and harder for my age.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

One day when you are 80 years old, you try to teach your students a technique but you no longer be able to do it well. Instead of for your students to learn a 80 years old man's technique (speed is slow, balance is weak), you can show your old video. You then tell your students that they should do like your old video and not like what you are doing today. It's sad. That day will come to everybody.

In my last class, I taught my students the "leg twist, leg block" combo. After the class, I send them my old video. To remain single leg balance after throwing just get harder and harder for my age.

You look and sound to be in excellent shape. We all get old, I don’t worry about things like that. I actually want to live to do that. I will teach until I can’t. It’s that simple. I do hope to transmit to as many students as possible, a thing that is consistently worth their time and money. I also hope they make it their own and that some of them teach.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

We all get old, I don’t worry about things like that.

If Bruce Lee is still alive, he should be 82 years old today. If his students want to learn his "三不落地 3 non-landing kicks" combo, can he still teach it? It may be difficult if not impossible.

With his movie clips online, his students can still learn.

His "三不落地 3 non-landing kicks" combo is one of my favor self-training drills.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

One day when you are 80 years old, you try to teach your students a technique but you no longer be able to do it well. Instead of for your students to learn a 80 years old man's technique (speed is slow, balance is weak), you can show your old video. You then tell your students that they should do like your old video and not like what you are doing today. It's sad. That day will come to everybody.

In my last class, I taught my students the "leg twist, leg block" combo. After the class, I send them my old video. To remain single leg balance after throwing just get harder and harder for my age.

If I can’t do a technique, and don’t have a student who can demonstrate for new students, a video doesn’t fix the problem, in my opinion.

I’d always hoped I’d develop long-term students, for this reason. At this point, it’s very likely I’ll never pass along anything like my full curriculum. Others in the art will be around to keep it going, even if it’s not the same as mine.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I can’t do a technique, and don’t have a student who can demonstrate for new students, a video doesn’t fix the problem, in my opinion.

A: You need to spend more time in stretching so you can do a floor split.
B: Dear teacher! You ask us to stretch. Can you do it yourself?
A: I will never ask you to train something that I have not trained myself. I can't do it today, but I have a video to prove that I went through this training myself.

Sometime even a picture is good enough.

 

[BigDon]

I always want to ask a Taiji person about this question. Does a Taiji guy share the same goal as a

- wrestler - to take his opponent down?
- boxer - to knock his opponent down?

no, i could do Billy blanks kick boxing "fighting" but can´t call it real fighting.
Taiji is a form of fitness in the same light ..no use to a cage fighter or anyone looking for real action!

 

[BigDon]

Hmm... the Chi was flowing

 

[Dirty Dog]

no, i could do Billy blanks kick boxing "fighting" but can´t call it real fighting.
Taiji is a form of fitness in the same light ..no use to a cage fighter or anyone looking for real action!

We have a couple of people here with a LOT of taji experience who will disagree with you. On what training and experience do you base this statement?

 

[Xue Sheng]

We have a couple of people here with a LOT of taji experience who will disagree with you. On what training and experience do you base this statement?

There is also someone here on MT who knows Billy Blanks and he will tell you how good a fighter Billy is.... however his kick boxing videos are for fitness.

I also had a real long discussion with an MMA fighter several years ago. He was training Qigong and was very interested in Taijiquan. As he said "I will train anything that will help me win" Qigong allowed him to relax more. Also talked with a long time Chen guy who went to train at an MMA gym. He was having a blast learning how to better use his taijiquan and the MMA guys were having a great time learning how ot overcome his rooting.

But with that said nobody from taijiquan would jump into a cage match, don't know many martial artists who would. But I am ok with folks thinking it does not work, it is to my advantage. However with that said, the majority of taijiquan folks these days is for health.... but for a few of us, it is more. I was a martial art but very few teachers these days know the martial arts of it.

My Shigong (teacher's teacher) use to always say taijiquan was for health. But he was also taking into that, you get in a fight, you stay healthy by defending yourself. He was also very big into qinna.

 

[drop bear]

We have a couple of people here with a LOT of taji experience who will disagree with you. On what training and experience do you base this statement?

Do those people who have that opinion show examples or provide evidence?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Taiji is a form of fitness in the same light ..no use to a cage fighter or anyone looking for real action!

Ther are many selections here:

1. Taiji is a combat art. People train it for fighting.
2. Taiji is a combat art. People don't train it for fighting.
3. Taiji is a non-combat art. People train it for fighting.
4. Taiji is a non-combat art. People don't train it for fighting.

I'm with 1. May be you are with 4.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do those people who have that opinion show examples or provide evidence?

Sure. I know you tend to discount any evidence that you disagree with, though, so you'll no doubt insist that they don't.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do those people who have that opinion show examples or provide evidence?

Most Taiji people also cross train different MA systems. When you take your opponent down, sometime it's difficult to tell whether you use a

- Taiji takedown, or
- wrestling takedown.

In the following clips, did they use wrestling takedown, or Taiji takedown?

 

[drop bear]

Sure. I know you tend to discount any evidence that you disagree with, though, so you'll no doubt insist that they don't.

I just never get given any.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I just never get given any.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[drop bear]

Thank you for proving my point.

This is the problem.

If you wanted to prove your point. Your best method would be to find somewhere I didn't accept evidence. Quote that and fly it in my face.

Not. In a conversation where I say I don't get given evidence, provide me no evidence and then say you have proved something with that method.

Sometimes I seriously think I am getting trolled in these conversations.