What to do if people train too hard

[Nev]

Hi - first time poster here

I am the only female in my class of no gi/bjj but I mostly train another martial art (one stripe white belt in bjj). I stopped doing bjj especially no gi because I found men would constantly try to smash me to the point that I was just avoiding getting seriously hurt.

I've asked my friends about it and they said to just ask people to ease back a bit but I don't want to be labelled that woman people have to go easier on.

It is not everyone, it is certain strong guys - particularly the newer ones (I'm sure everyone here has experienced it) - unfortunately I don't have the strength or technique to avoid it.

I hardly every do bjj but every now and then I think oh maybe it is better now - so last night again I tried, and there was a really strong guy who caught my arm and was rolling sideways with my arm caught just to get the submission - my elbow was very close to breaking and I yelled out tap tap tap but he even delayed letting go - I don't think it was on purpose but it was a real dick move and I was annoyed as who wants a broken elbow because of some idiot.

Anyway - I want to be able to train no gi but I feel like every time I try I'm scouting out the few people who wont hurt me, which is a shame because I find it quite fun.

Any advice? or should I just not do it anymore?

 

[Eric_H]

There are three things potentially at play here:

1) The amount of control expected of students - if you feel that injury is likely due to partners acting inappropriately, you have to talk to your coach, leave the school or refuse to partner with certain classmates.
2) The activity itself - When I kick box, I get punched/kicked in the face. I may end up with broken bones etc because of this. If this is a major concern, I should stop the activity and pursue something else.
3) Your own in/experience - You may or may not be overreacting. This activity may be something you are not comfortable with, but it ultimately less threatening than perceived.

Only you can say what's right for you, and what you are comfortable with. I would talk with your coach privately, and if there is no resolution, get out of there. Nobody wants to see you or anyone else injured in training.

 

[Nev]

There are three things potentially at play here:

1) The amount of control expected of students - if you feel that injury is likely due to partners acting inappropriately, you have to talk to your coach, leave the school or refuse to partner with certain classmates.
2) The activity itself - When I kick box, I get punched/kicked in the face. I may end up with broken bones etc because of this. If this is a major concern, I should stop the activity and pursue something else.
3) Your own in/experience - You may or may not be overreacting. This activity may be something you are not comfortable with, but it ultimately less threatening than perceived.

Only you can say what's right for you, and what you are comfortable with. I would talk with your coach privately, and if there is no resolution, get out of there. Nobody wants to see you or anyone else injured in training.

Thanks Eric. I think I have more of an issue in no Gi because of the lack of gi making it easier for people to grab limbs and twist them and some people get too focused on twisting limbs to get the submission. The other problem I have is neck cranks where people get their arm around my neck and yank it and my neck pops - this is a lot easier in no gi because of the lack of a collar.

Maybe for me no Gi is just too risky given I have no real love for it and I prefer the martial art I do anyway - its just we have increased the number of no gi classes now due to popularity, it seems to be the way martial arts is heading.

 

[Nev]

now that I think of it maybe I could be submitting far earlier too but I always feel if I can get out of it why give up

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hi - first time poster here

I am the only female in my class of no gi/bjj but I mostly train another martial art (one stripe white belt in bjj). I stopped doing bjj especially no gi because I found men would constantly try to smash me to the point that I was just avoiding getting seriously hurt.

I've asked my friends about it and they said to just ask people to ease back a bit but I don't want to be labelled that woman people have to go easier on.

It is not everyone, it is certain strong guys - particularly the newer ones (I'm sure everyone here has experienced it) - unfortunately I don't have the strength or technique to avoid it.

I hardly every do bjj but every now and then I think oh maybe it is better now - so last night again I tried, and there was a really strong guy who caught my arm and was rolling sideways with my arm caught just to get the submission - my elbow was very close to breaking and I yelled out tap tap tap but he even delayed letting go - I don't think it was on purpose but it was a real dick move and I was annoyed as who wants a broken elbow because of some idiot.

Anyway - I want to be able to train no gi but I feel like every time I try I'm scouting out the few people who wont hurt me, which is a shame because I find it quite fun.

Any advice? or should I just not do it anymore?

The advice your friends gave was good advice. Sometimes people just assume what they are doing is fine, until they are told differently. That's especially true of relatively inexperienced folks. I'd be surprised to find an experienced grappler who didn't know how to play with some control, but new folks are dangerous, because they don't have great control and don't yet know what makes people say "ow".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

now that I think of it maybe I could be submitting far earlier too but I always feel if I can get out of it why give up

That is the other side of it. I teach students to submit early, until they know their partner will be cautious and exercise control. They let me take pins and locks a lot further than they let each other take them, and that's a good decision.

So, when someone gets a lock (especially a neck crank) on, and it feels solid, just tap out. If you get a partner you know is capable of executing with a very slow finish, you can fight a little longer.

 

[Nev]

That is the other side of it. I teach students to submit early, until they know their partner will be cautious and exercise control. They let me take pins and locks a lot further than they let each other take them, and that's a good decision.

So, when someone gets a lock (especially a neck crank) on, and it feels solid, just tap out. If you get a partner you know is capable of executing with a very slow finish, you can fight a little longer.

Yes - this is all sound advice.

In hindsight it is probably an issue with myself and my ego - I hate being crushed because I'm not as strong as a man and so will fight until the bitter end and not ask anyone to ease up if they are going too hard. My friends do say I need to tap far earlier so I suppose if I do get injured it would be my own fault.

That said I don't know how the smaller guys put up with it, I have done bjj long enough and I am as tall as a man so I can just get out of submissions but I often feel sorry for the smaller guys that just start (we have a 15 yr old that weighs 40kg) - probably why they leave soon after.

 

[jobo]

the simple answer would seem to be, get stronger

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes - this is all sound advice.

In hindsight it is probably an issue with myself and my ego - I hate being crushed because I'm not as strong as a man and so will fight until the bitter end and not ask anyone to ease up if they are going too hard. My friends do say I need to tap far earlier so I suppose if I do get injured it would be my own fault.

That said I don't know how the smaller guys put up with it, I have done bjj long enough and I am as tall as a man so I can just get out of submissions but I often feel sorry for the smaller guys that just start (we have a 15 yr old that weighs 40kg) - probably why they leave soon after.

Part of what's so nice about BJJ is that someone with a high level of skill can handle someone who is much larger (but not as skilled). It just takes a while to get to that point. There are even some advantages for the smaller folks (harder to close off their avenues of escape).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

the simple answer would seem to be, get stronger

A simple answer, perhaps, but not a right answer, IMO.

 

[Nev]

Part of what's so nice about BJJ is that someone with a high level of skill can handle someone who is much larger (but not as skilled). It just takes a while to get to that point. There are even some advantages for the smaller folks (harder to close off their avenues of escape).

You are right - my instructor is the bantamweight champ in the nation.

But - it takes a long time to get there, and in the meantime I don't want to suffer any injuries.

As for getting stronger, I already took up crossfit and gained muscle hoping it would help, but ultimately I will never have the same muscle mass as a man.

 

[drop bear]

How hard are you going OP? If you are bull at a gate. Then they will be.

We have a thread on that.

 

[Headhunter]

It's Jiu Jitsu you're going to get injuries that's just how it goes. Would you rather guys don't even try against you and you not learn how to deal with them. If you hardly ever do it no wonder you're not improving and when you say "smashing" you does that mean you're getting out positioned because what do you expect when you're new, it's the same for everyone.

If you don't want to tell people you're problems then it'll never get sorted so either tell them, or don't tell them and just get on with it or leave and do something else. Those are your options

 

[Midnight-shadow]

It's Jiu Jitsu you're going to get injuries that's just how it goes. Would you rather guys don't even try against you and you not learn how to deal with them. If you hardly ever do it no wonder you're not improving and when you say "smashing" you does that mean you're getting out positioned because what do you expect when you're new, it's the same for everyone.

If you don't want to tell people you're problems then it'll never get sorted so either tell them, or don't tell them and just get on with it or leave and do something else. Those are your options

There's a big difference between being beaten by someone else's better technique and being snowballed over by someone a lot bigger than you using brute force. It sounds to me like the OP is being matched up with fellow newbies who are a lot stronger and don't know how to control their strength, or just don't care to because they want to win.

In my personal opinion this is an instructor issue more than anything else. At the lower levels the instructor should be impressing on people the need for technique over strength and be closely monitoring the free rolling to make sure excessive force isn't used.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

It's Jiu Jitsu you're going to get injuries that's just how it goes. Would you rather guys don't even try against you and you not learn how to deal with them. If you hardly ever do it no wonder you're not improving and when you say "smashing" you does that mean you're getting out positioned because what do you expect when you're new, it's the same for everyone.

If you don't want to tell people you're problems then it'll never get sorted so either tell them, or don't tell them and just get on with it or leave and do something else. Those are your options

There's a big difference between being beaten by someone else's better technique and being snowballed over by someone a lot bigger than you using brute force. It sounds to me like the OP is being matched up with fellow newbies who are a lot stronger and don't know how to control their strength, or just don't care to because they want to win.

In my personal opinion this is an instructor issue more than anything else. At the lower levels the instructor should be impressing on people the need for technique over strength and be closely monitoring the free rolling to make sure excessive force isn't used.

 

[Tez3]

I doubt the OP is going at it like a bull in the china shop, it certainly doesn't sound like it so I hope she doesn't take it that she's being blamed. In my experience as a female doing no gi male beginners often think they can muscle their way through rolling, they will do this with all partners. Often two male beginners will end up collapsed on the mats because they've used up all their energy up trying to use their strength. Add into that a female partner who potentially could 'beat' them and they aren't ready to be bested by a female then you have the situation the OP has described. Everyone needs to learn to tap, our fighters tap quite quickly because not to do so is stupid when an injury might occur and stop them fighting. It's enough to know the technique works, you don't need to prove it with injuries.
Our fighters understand that rolling with less strong people makes them use techniques and not strength because when they fight competitively they will be matched with someone the same strength and size as them so there's no advantage without good techniques. As has been said by Midnight-shadow this is an instructor issue and should be taken up with them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I doubt the OP is going at it like a bull in the china shop, it certainly doesn't sound like it so I hope she doesn't take it that she's being blamed. In my experience as a female doing no gi male beginners often think they can muscle their way through rolling, they will do this with all partners. Often two male beginners will end up collapsed on the mats because they've used up all their energy up trying to use their strength. Add into that a female partner who potentially could 'beat' them and they aren't ready to be bested by a female then you have the situation the OP has described. Everyone needs to learn to tap, our fighters tap quite quickly because not to do so is stupid when an injury might occur and stop them fighting. It's enough to know the technique works, you don't need to prove it with injuries.
Our fighters understand that rolling with less strong people makes them use techniques and not strength because when they fight competitively they will be matched with someone the same strength and size as them so there's no advantage without good techniques. As has been said by Midnight-shadow this is an instructor issue and should be taken up with them.

By her own post, she's probably more aggressive than most, at least in her resistance to submissions. That's a good thing, as long as she dials it back to communicate levels with her partner.

 

[Tez3]

By her own post, she's probably more aggressive than most, at least in her resistance to submissions. That's a good thing, as long as she dials it back to communicate levels with her partner.

That's not what I meant, my comments were in answer to DB's post which practically blamed her for charging in being the aggressor rather than her resisting more than some.

 

[jobo]

A simple answer, perhaps, but not a right answer, IMO.

it might not be the complete answer, but if she is being over powered by beginners, that being her self considerably stronger would reduce this

 

[Headhunter]

Thanks Eric. I think I have more of an issue in no Gi because of the lack of gi making it easier for people to grab limbs and twist them and some people get too focused on twisting limbs to get the submission. The other problem I have is neck cranks where people get their arm around my neck and yank it and my neck pops - this is a lot easier in no gi because of the lack of a collar.

Maybe for me no Gi is just too risky given I have no real love for it and I prefer the martial art I do anyway - its just we have increased the number of no gi classes now due to popularity, it seems to be the way martial arts is heading.

If you don't like getting put in submissions then Jiu Jitsu definentely isn't for you