What should i learn?

[Flying Crane]

I just showed you proof that their hands were down and punching from the waste in 5 different types of MA.

Can you show me your school's video and what you teach beginners?

Proof. From Youtube? I don't put much credit in what is found in youtube. It's an example of something that happened at that moment, and nothing more. It means nothing beyond that.

Hey, I stated earlier: you know best, believe what you want. I'm content with that.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

<<sigh>> I can't believe I'm actually gonna engage in this idiocy...

Please please please no more engaging. There's no reason to turn this persons thread into yet another one of these stupid arguments, especially when no ones answer will change.

 

[seasoned]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Wes Yager
-MT Moderator-

 

[Mz1]

Proof. From Youtube? I don't put much credit in what is found in youtube. It's an example of something that happened at that moment, and nothing more. It means nothing beyond that.

So now you're trying to deny hat you don't teach noobs fluffy, flowery forms, punching from the waist and keeping your hands low. Nice try.

Hey, I stated earlier: you know best, believe what you want. I'm content with that.

And you prove this every time by engaging in debates with me.

 

[Mz1]

oh, ok, you know best.

And this is what, the 4th time at least you've said this?

Really friend, are you gonna turn this thread into the old MMA vs. Traditional martial art debate? You've expressed your opinion, I've expressed mine, and others have expressed theirs. Give it a rest.

And this is the 2nd time you've said this in this thread, haha, friend. Yet it's always you who's engaging in debates with me and begging for me to talk to you. Talk about idiocy. I wasn't even talking to you.

What's even funnier is that in my first post in this thread, you know, the one that got you all worked up....I didn't even say anything about TMA. I just said that MMA doesn't waste time on fluffy, flowery forms....yet you immediately assume that it's your style and you still try to deny those YouTube videos I linked.

 

[Mz1]

If his goal is to compete in MMA, a school with active competitors is certainly a good idea. But that wasn't in the original post... And you're assuming that any active competitors got all (or the majority) of their training there. I've known plenty of MMA fighters who moved around to different gyms, for a variety of reasons. I know of gyms that have recruited fighters with solid records, too... So the mere fact that they have guys fighting competitively (we're assuming they're doing reasonably well -- which is also rather a large assumption) doesn't necessarily mean they can coach a beginner effectively, either.

A school that produces real fighters still have a much better chance of being more legit.

The reason that Muay Thai got popular is that they sold the "we're the ultimate kickboxer" line effectively. I remember when nobody knew what Muay Thai was... I also remember when it was next to impossible to hold a kickboxing event with knees and elbows. The whole idea of Muay Thai being the ultimate striking is kind of like the Gracie's "most fights go to the ground" -- there's more to the story. (You might research Lethwei, as but one example...)

Muay Thai was hardly known in the USA was due to chopsocky Kung-Fu movies popularizing Kung-Fu in the 70's...especially with the rise of Bruce Lee. Run Run Shaw is obviously going to only promote Chinese MA's and not Thai ones. But before that, it was Karate.....due to the 2 nukes dropped on Japan and Karate was one of the things brought back after reconstructing Japan. In the 80's, it was the Karate Kid and Joon Rhee's "nobody bodders me".

If you want to talk about marketing SNAKE OIL, I think that your camp is more guilty of peddling such with the superhuman Kung-Fu fighting movies and doing parlor tricks with breaking boards, ice blocks, cinder blocks, etc. Bending rubbery spears with the throat, etc. Does MMA use any of this?

While the Gracies certainly were trying to make a buck, what's wrong with that? The big difference is, they put their reputation on the line by challenging people to fight. They didn't pretend nor hide. Vale Tudo happened and since 1993, UFC 1 dispelled a lot of the chopsocky movie myths, parlour tricks, and the rest is history.

You know, MMA has been getting popular more and more every single year, and is still the FASTEST growing sport in America. It's been nearly 20 YEARS since UFC 1. MMA is a multi-billion dollar/year, GLOBAL business. Never before has Martial Artist been able to make such good living and with many becoming multi-million dollar prize fighters, etc. in America. MMA is now it's own science, with all the millions of dollars in endorsement money, etc. feeding it as a well tuned machine. Yet YOU, still think us MMA'ers are all dummies who can't figure out the difference between a Gracie/Ultimate Kickboxer marketing gimmick and the real deal....even with NEARLY 20 YEARS of PROOF.

It's both marketing AND the real thing. The only reason BJJ and MT is primarily used in MMA is because they work the BEST. MMA is even bringing in Boxing and Wrestling as secondary systems now. Even with the rivalry against Pro Wrestling and Boxing, MMA is still accepting the fact that they certainly work....not some conspiracy to just promote BJJ and MT.

 

[seasoned]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Wes Yager
-MT Moderator-

Consider this the last warning.

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful, AND return to the original topic.
Wes Yager
-MT Moderator-

 

[Takai]

Hey all,

I understand that this topic might have been created several times, i tried to read around the forums and Google but i believe making a topic would help me out the most. ^^

First of all, i never played any martial arts before, i'm 19 years old, I'm only 5'6, but i have pretty wide shoulders.

1. I want to learn a martial art that makes me good at ground fighting AND standing (grappling and some strikes). What would be good options?
2. What exactly is MMA? For example, if I choose to join an MMA school, would they require you to have past martial art experience? Or do they teach you a mixture of jiujitsu/karate/boxing/etcetc ?

Also, i don't really care much for tournament play and such, i just want to get better at defending myself in-case any incident happens, and of course i'd like to be more athletic. (I am mature, i know that if i could avoid a fight, i should do so even if i can kick the hell out of the guy, i just want to be able to defend myself IF i am FORCED to fight).

Thanks a lot and sorry if the topic is redundant

Getting back to the OP. Previous posters have already said this but, I will attempt to bring it back on course.

1) If we knew the area in which you resided we might be able to be more helpful with a personal recommendation. Don't feel pressure to give out that info if you are uncomfortable about it.

2) Do research on what is available in your area. Google it, ask around, etc.

3) When you have narrowed it down check them all out....one at a time. See if you can watch, get some trial time on the mat. Talk instructors and try to get a feel for what they and their instruction is like. If you can watch try to see if you can watch a beginner, intermediate and advanced class. You certainly won't understand the material but, it will give you a feel for what could potentially be in your future training model.

4) Read all contracts carefully. If you feel pressured to sign a contract without being given the time to understand it.....walk away. Better to have your options still open than to be back into a corner with a legally binding contract.

5) Enjoy the process of looking for a place to train. Martial arts should be about the journey and deciding which path to take should be just as enjoyable as the actually training time.

Welcome to MT! Enjoy the journey!

 

[Langenschwert]

MMA training can be very useful. However, the focus of MMA training is a one-on-one sporting competition where competitors are unarmed. It will toughen you up, get you in shape, and if the school is good and you train diligently and well, you will see excellent results. It's a great option. However, it's not the be-all end-all if self-defence is your goal. A Muay Thai clinch is unwise if the opponent has a knife you don't know about, for example. If he pulls it, you won't see it, and you'll be in a dire situation without even knowing it, until it's much too late.

However, if you take MMA, you'll learn how to punch, kick, and grapple, which are fundamental skills you can't do without. If on top of that you take a more SD-themed art (KAPAP is a good choice if you can find it), you'll be as well-prepared as you can be. However, keep in mind that no matter how good your weapon defence is, against an experienced weapons guy, the unarmed person is in serious trouble. You can give an athletic, agressive person a day's training in knife work and they'll make mincemeat out of most unarmed black belts. Would you fight someone whose jab can kill you? I wouldn't... it's bad math. But train as much as you can so you the odds will be stacked in your favour as much as they possibly can be.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Mz1]

MMA training can be very useful. However, the focus of MMA training is a one-on-one sporting competition where competitors are unarmed.

What's lacking in MMA, for example, in dealing against weapons....is many folds lacking in SD and TMA, which is sparring hard for full knockouts to really test your chin and ability to fight back.

Training to disarm knives, guns, etc. in general, is just fantasy role playing. Most instructors themselves are basing their teachings on theories also w/o any real life experience. I've trained with weapons in a Jujutsu school for about a year. Instructors were 2 cops, so unlike most SD instructors, they've had some REAL experiences vs. knives in their line of work as cops. And they weren't Barney Fife-type cops in the sticks neither. These were Washington DC cops, with one working in Southeast DC (really bad area on par with Detroit, Oakland, Baltimore, etc.). And what I've found out is that during sparring w/a rubber knife, I can easily slash the hell out of them using my footwork, hand speed, agility, etc... all from being a trained and experienced as an MMA fighter. At least 8-10 slashes before they get frustrated and go full on, banzai-suicide blitz to get slashed some more, but succeed in grabbing my knife hand to disarm me. They would never do such if my knife was real and they've got 8-10 deep gashes with their own blood squirting all over the place. And I wasn't even stabbing them neither, because that rubber knife is real solid and can take an eyeball out, thus I was being extra nice.

It's a good thing that not many SD students are attacked for real, so they never get to find out if what they've been training all this time is worth anything.

It will toughen you up, get you in shape, and if the school is good and you train diligently and well, you will see excellent results. It's a great option. However, it's not the be-all end-all if self-defence is your goal.

MMA certainly isn't an end-all system for SD, but it surely beats most SD systems out there IMO. Knife on knife, my experience as a fighter would mean that my hand speed, footwork, reflexes, etc. is going to be way faster than someone who never fought before in their life. Just put the knife in the Boxer's or MMA's power hand and reverse the stance. The jab hand is now going to be lighting fast and powerful. This is exactly how I train with my knives, I shadowbox with it.

A Muay Thai clinch is unwise if the opponent has a knife you don't know about, for example. If he pulls it, you won't see it, and you'll be in a dire situation without even knowing it, until it's much too late.

Well no experienced MT fighter would just jump in and clinch w/o seeing that there's no weapon first. But once the clinch is about to be locked (takes about 1 second), knees are already going towards their face. I'd like to see someone try to reach for a weapon in their pocket while in the MT plum and eating about 2-3 knees per second to the face.

However, if you take MMA, you'll learn how to punch, kick, and grapple, which are fundamental skills you can't do without. If on top of that you take a more SD-themed art (KAPAP is a good choice if you can find it), you'll be as well-prepared as you can be. However, keep in mind that no matter how good your weapon defence is, against an experienced weapons guy, the unarmed person is in serious trouble. You can give an athletic, agressive person a day's training in knife work and they'll make mincemeat out of most unarmed black belts. Would you fight someone whose jab can kill you? I wouldn't... it's bad math. But train as much as you can so you the odds will be stacked in your favour as much as they possibly can be.

That's why I don't leave home w/o my 9mm and at least 1 knife, but usually 2 knives and my EDC.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Training to disarm knives, guns, etc. in general, is just fantasy role playing. Most instructors themselves are basing their teachings on theories also w/o any real life experience.

While I won't say what most instructors themselves are basing their material on, I will say that I have seen more credible knife disarms than gun disarms, and what few credible gun disarms I have seen won't work unless the gunman is within three feet of you, and even then the outcome is questionable.

Knife defenses that involve kicks to the weapon hand are, in my opinion, unreliable at best. On the other hand, I have seen a pretty good selection of knife/hand held weapon disarms that are "credible" against certain types of attacks, but that are either not trained realistically or where it is implied that the material is comprehensive when it isn't.

Most knife defenses that I have seen are focused on committed attacks; the stereotypical raising the knife high and stabbing down, the holding the knife low and stabbing upwards into the torso, straight thrusts and large slashing attacks. I have not seen many that deal with rapid, jabbing or quick, light movements that do not require total commitment or large motions.

In any case, as a new student, the OP probably won't be introduced to weapon defenses for some time anyway, so I'm not sure how relevant weapon defenses are at this point.