What seperates "Martial" from "Art" today?

[Zujitsuka]

Kata is great. It is like shadowboxing where one can work on perfecting their technique. The problem with a lot of guys though is this: They are in great shape; they have excellenent technique; BUT they are not able to determine when to use a certain technique and/or they cannot put them together in combinations.

For instance, if someone is trying to kick the stuffing out of you, don't try to grab their wrist to apply a kote gaeshi - you have to set that one up with some strikes first.

So, I see that some people get an adrenaline rush from going through techniques with an uke, huh? If that is the case, please lay of the coffee because you're a nervous wreck! ;-)

You pretty much know what an uke is going to do. He/she is going to be attacking you with a set group of techniques that you're expecting.

Sparring/randori is in my estimation what makes something is truly martial or not. I see guys and gals look like superstars on the bag, on the focus pads, and when shadowboxing, but once they spar, they fall to pieces. This pretty much happens to everyone at first but with experience, you learn how to flow and put together combinations. You really can't develop that skill unless you spar. Also, sparring develops mental toughness. A lot of guys who never sparred full contact think that they are psychologically prepared - until they get hit.

One can go through as many choreographed sequences as they want but if you never spar or roll on the mat, you're just doing a workout that incorporates martial techniques - ala Tae Bo.

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Zujitsuka

Sparring/randori is in my estimation what makes something is truly martial or not. I see guys and gals look like superstars on the bag, on the focus pads, and when shadowboxing, but once they spar, they fall to pieces. This pretty much happens to everyone at first but with experience, you learn how to flow and put together combinations. You really can't develop that skill unless you spar. Also, sparring develops mental toughness. A lot of guys who never sparred full contact think that they are psychologically prepared - until they get hit.

The reverse can also be true. Sparring can give you a false sense of confidence. As sparring is done within the confines of rules and you tend to spar people who react as trained sparrers, it does not prepare you, just on it's own, for the real world. Hence, why I posted that a Martial Art needs to be balanced.

Although I don't believe that you are advocating that sparring is the most important part of MA training, just that some schools tend to lack this important portion of our training.

Another Kenpoist once said that our self-defense training is like trying to learn how to swim in 2 feet of water. Non of us know how we'll react when you get thrown into the deep end until it happens. But on the other hand, we are better off than those who never learned how to swim, or learned without stepping into the water.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Zujitsuka
Kata is great. It is like shadowboxing where one can work on perfecting their technique. The problem with a lot of guys though is this: They are in great shape; they have excellenent technique; BUT they are not able to determine when to use a certain technique and/or they cannot put them together in combinations.

For instance, if someone is trying to kick the stuffing out of you, don't try to grab their wrist to apply a kote gaeshi - you have to set that one up with some strikes first.

So, I see that some people get an adrenaline rush from going through techniques with an uke, huh? If that is the case, please lay of the coffee because you're a nervous wreck! ;-)

You pretty much know what an uke is going to do. He/she is going to be attacking you with a set group of techniques that you're expecting.

Sparring/randori is in my estimation what makes something is truly martial or not. I see guys and gals look like superstars on the bag, on the focus pads, and when shadowboxing, but once they spar, they fall to pieces. This pretty much happens to everyone at first but with experience, you learn how to flow and put together combinations. You really can't develop that skill unless you spar. Also, sparring develops mental toughness. A lot of guys who never sparred full contact think that they are psychologically prepared - until they get hit.

One can go through as many choreographed sequences as they want but if you never spar or roll on the mat, you're just doing a workout that incorporates martial techniques - ala Tae Bo.

Though I agree with most everything you said, there is one point that I feel must be addressed.
Where sparring works as a true training tool for boxers, judoka and those others that train in sport techniques, it cannot teach Martial Artists to fight. All it really does is teach them to spar, ie. fight using restricted techniques, with limited contact. Even so called Full Contact Karateka, don't strike to the face.
It was my big complaint when learning American Kenpo, that my instructor wanted us to point spar. When boxers spar, they box.
When Judoka spar, they get on the mat and do Judo. As I said before it is the same for all sport based Combat systems. So why if I am learning real self defense skills, must I get it on with some one in a tip tap manner?

Of course I realise that going out and getting into a real fight, kind of defeats the purpose of training for self defense, but what about reality based training scenarios?

In our school, we wear light padding, and helmets with face guards, we turn the main lights off and turn the disco type lights on. We have the music up so loud it is hard to think, and before all this we have done so many drills and push ups and sit ups, it is just like being under adrenal stress.

Then we fight. One person is chosen as the agressor, he/ she does his/ her thing and it is on. All the while our instructor is watching and waiting to see what we are going to do. If we don't play real, we have to play with him.(scares me just thinking about it! )

Just my $0.02 worth.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by Zujitsuka
So, I see that some people get an adrenaline rush from going through techniques with an uke, huh? If that is the case, please lay of the coffee because you're a nervous wreck! ;-)

:rofl: :rofl:
Not just techniques, but technique lines... there's a difference