what makes bad krav. (crap maga)

[Runs With Fire]

Crappy, sorrowful, painful to watch, dangerous, fanciful, sloppy, or just plain weird.

The first crap maga I saw was kinda like a four year old using a kitchen mixer. Everything happened at a hundred miles an hour and it was incredibly sloppy. Bad posture, horrible guard hands, off balance and no weight behind strikes. Alot of falling over during kicks. There was alot of constipation faces and loud shouting.

 

[Headhunter]

Bad teachers make styles bad

 

[JR 137]

The same things that make any other style/system “bad.”

Bad training methods, which include but are not limited to:
Poor mechanics being taught
Lack of attention to detail
Unrealistic training scenarios
Lack of pressure testing
Unrealistic expectations of the effects of techniques
Bad strategy/application

For the most part, this is a school thing, not a style as a whole thing. Although some styles mess this up overall more than others.

 

[hoshin1600]

i would say bad Krav is a result of poor controls on the certification process. when you can get an instructors cert after 48 hours of training there is a problem.

 

[Runs With Fire]

i would say bad Krav is a result of poor controls on the certification process. when you can get an instructors cert after 48 hours of training there is a problem.

I couldn't care less about a certification process or corporate control. I don't think being a stiff would help any.

 

[hoshin1600]

I couldn't care less about a certification process or corporate control. I don't think being a stiff would help any.

im not 100% sure i understand your post. so your saying your ok with people having an instructor having a total martial arts career of 48 hours?
and the instructor under him...48 hours, and under him 48 hours... there cant be any standard of quality when this is the norm and a system loses all credibility. there are good instructors out there, but it is anybodies guess who they are.

 

[Runs With Fire]

im not 100% sure i understand your post. so your saying your ok with people having an instructor having a total martial arts career of 48 hours?
and the instructor under him...48 hours, and under him 48 hours... there cant be any standard of quality when this is the norm and a system loses all credibility. there are good instructors out there, but it is anybodies guess who they are.

48 hrs: 2hrs/class 1class/week, 24 weeks. That's six months. Probably for a level one instructor. Definitely a slim number. I don't the problem is in certification though. I don't think you can regulate it enough to seriously reduced the clowns. Btw, which group does the 48 hrs?

 

[Runs With Fire]

I was more going for examples of bad krav.

 

[wab25]

I was more going for examples of bad krav.

There is a gun disarm from the front, with the bad guy pointing the gun at your chest. In this version of the disarm, you never move your body off the firing line, in fact to stay directly in front of the bad guy the whole time. You move your left arm up to deflect, then grab the gun. You lock out your elbow to drive the gun directly into his waist, punch him in the face and strip the gun. Again, all this is done while staying directly in front of the bad guy. If they teach you this, they probably got their teaching certificate over a weekend course or through mail in... walk away.

 

[Runs With Fire]

There is a gun disarm from the front, with the bad guy pointing the gun at your chest. In this version of the disarm, you never move your body off the firing line, in fact to stay directly in front of the bad guy the whole time. You move your left arm up to deflect, then grab the gun. You lock out your elbow to drive the gun directly into his waist, punch him in the face and strip the gun. Again, all this is done while staying directly in front of the bad guy. If they teach you this, they probably got their teaching certificate over a weekend course or through mail in... walk away.

Scary,

 

[Flying Crane]

48 hrs: 2hrs/class 1class/week, 24 weeks. That's six months. Probably for a level one instructor. Definitely a slim number. I don't the problem is in certification though. I don't think you can regulate it enough to seriously reduced the clowns. Btw, which group does the 48 hrs?

What kind of background does one need before being admitted to this six month instructor training program? Does one need to already be accomplished in Krav? Or would being accomplished in something else be acceptable? Or could one be an absolute newbie?

 

[Runs With Fire]

What kind of background does one need before being admitted to this six month instructor training program? Does one need to already be accomplished in Krav? Or would being accomplished in something else be acceptable? Or could one be an absolute newbie?

I really don't know who does a 48 hr instructor program. I'm going to try and find out.

 

[Flying Crane]

I really don't know who does a 48 hr instructor program. I'm going to try and find out.

Well, if one were already accomplished in the method and a six month instructor training course consisting of 48 hours of instruction spaced out two hours a week, it might not be unreasonable. If the purpose of the course is to train someone to be an effective teacher and isn’t taking a complete newbie from ground zero up to instructor, then it might be reasonable. If the candidate is already accomplished with the method then he ought to have several years of training into it already and likely already has some teaching/assistant teaching experience. It isn’t entirely unreasonable in that case.

 

[drop bear]

Crappy, sorrowful, painful to watch, dangerous, fanciful, sloppy, or just plain weird.

The first crap maga I saw was kinda like a four year old using a kitchen mixer. Everything happened at a hundred miles an hour and it was incredibly sloppy. Bad posture, horrible guard hands, off balance and no weight behind strikes. Alot of falling over during kicks. There was alot of constipation faces and loud shouting.

Good/bad martial arts mostly relies on feedback.
Looking like a martial artist is only half the equation.

I normally use Dan Kelly a MMA fighter who just looks wrong when he fights. But he beats people up at an elite level. So what he does then isn't wrong.


Bad krav is where it won't really matter if you are good or bad. The techniques always work and everyone wins. And 90 year olds can drop 20year olds.

 

[drop bear]

I really don't know who does a 48 hr instructor program. I'm going to try and find out.

I found a two day course.
Wingate Krav Maga Instructor Course

 

[Runs With Fire]

I'm not sure why all these negative Krav Maga topics are created.

You yourself got your black belt in 3-4 years? In most styles that is a very short time span and makes me wonder if you have enough experience to judge others, just saying.

The topic at hand though, it's exactly what people above said, it's bad teachers that produce bad students and rape a style or system.

See, I'm looking to find what bad krav looks like. I hear alot of trash talk and poor opinions on krav. Things like" all they teach is eye gouge and groin kick" , "It's mostly soccer moms and overweight people" , "nothing more than a fitness program" , and of course "you can become an instructor in a weekend with no prior experience".
I'm trying to identify what ideas people have about krav and see why and where those ideas come from. Also, I do believe I am in a position to judge a krav maga practitioner. It's easy to tell absurdity from practicality if you have a half decent understanding.

 

[Runs With Fire]

Can you give me some background of your instructor, the one who taught you Krav Maga? I'm just curious who he or she is and were that person studied......

Just to get a complete picture.

I trained under Bill Church of Crusader Martial arts. He trained under Martin Pedata of Deland Florida.
He trained kickboxing, then combat style taekwondo ( without forms), savate, and Krav. Don't know his instructor's name. I think he was with KMWW and Universal for a while. Martin is the style head of Combat Krav Maga. I know he was a professional fighter with over 100 professional fights. He's coming up this week to observe classes. I'll talk to him.

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm trying to identify what ideas people have about krav and see why and where those ideas come from.

i will answer this as best as possible. i will leave out specifics and links due to the TOS for MT. to start, i do a combatives system that grew out of my 35 year martial arts backround. as i followed my own path what i do now can no longer be called karate or something similar. the best word i found was combatives and by definition that it what it is. i never studied Krav but i do agree with a lot of what they do. i share a lot in common with them and to be honest, in many ways we would be competitors.
i visited a local Cross Fit that just opened to see if they would have any interest in offering self defense classes. the owner replied we already have someone lined up. i asked who and what they were going to offer. they said it was MR. xxxxxxxx who teaches krav maga. in my mind i was dumbfounded and i think i gagged a little.
you see Mr xxxxxx has owned a local karate school for quite some time in my area (which is about 30 miles from the cross fit location) it is a typical Mcdojo. they have a very poor reputation in the community and a google search revealed that all of his certifications are questionable. so he claims a black belt in karate that is issued by one of those business funding companies. the ones that collect the money for the school and do marketing for the dojo. as far as the Krav goes he says he is a certified instructor under Mr. ......... but i googled him and he is in Australia and offers instructor courses and i think online instructor courses. (not 100% sure of that but my memory seems to remember that)
before this incident i had payed the karate school a visit. they used to be called something like Joe's supper dupper karate but they changed the name and now proclaim to be Krav, as if it is a whole new school. talking to the women at the front desk they teach krav to the adults and karate to the kids. i asked what kind of karate and was honest that i trained. she said a type of modified kenpo.

so to the point.... if the prerequisite for being an instructor in Krav is a BB in an other style, the krav organization cannot validate whether that BB is valid or not. i think as a style krav can be great but i think they have some major organizational and systemic problems that are getting them a bad wrap.

 

[drop bear]

I trained under Bill Church of Crusader Martial arts. He trained under Martin Pedata of Deland Florida.
He trained kickboxing, then combat style taekwondo ( without forms), savate, and Krav. Don't know his instructor's name. I think he was with KMWW and Universal for a while. Martin is the style head of Combat Krav Maga. I know he was a professional fighter with over 100 professional fights. He's coming up this week to observe classes. I'll talk to him.

A hundred professional fights is a bit of an extreme number. Unless you grew up in Thailand or something.

For example Connor McGregor could claim about 30.

Conor "Notorious" McGregor MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com

 

[Runs With Fire]

That's kinda what I figured too.