What is your preference in length of a Katana's Tsuka (handle)?

[onequiks2k]

I was just curious as to everyone's preference on here...

 

[Charles Mahan]

The norm is for the tsuka to be roughly 1/3rd the length of the blade. It varies a little to either side of that. There are also a handful of styles which seem to prefer swords which use considerably longer tsuka. Ideal length is also going to depend on the size of your hands.

 

[zDom]

I prefer long tsukas.

But then, I've got very little (cough...as in none, really) experience with katana, so I guess I could be convinced otherwise by someone who knows their stuff.

I wish there was a really good sword art instructor in this area

 

[Chris deMonch]

I prefer a more conservative sized tsuka myself. The sword I use now (a customized Hanwei Shinto) has a 10.5" tsuka on it. When I first got started I used a Hanwei Musashi katana with a 15" tsuka because I thought it looked really cool. However, over the years as my technique evolved my taste in tsuka got shorter and shorter. Before I sold it a few years ago I picked up the Musashi again after getting used to a Shinto and the longer tsuka seemed almost comical to me. I couldn't figure out how I'd managed to use it for so long. Anywho, some schools advocate longer tsuka, but Yagyu Shinkage Ryu's not one of them.

 

[Walter Wong]

In my style Nami Ryu, long tsuka is used for tactical advantage. My tsuka length is 14 inches. I do use a 13 inch tsuka but won't use any tsuka shorter than that. I can manage a 15 inch tsuka but it is pushing the limits for me. Please note I am only 5'7". My choice for tsuka length are within the confines of the way my style approaches edged weapons combat. One can only comprehend how long tsuka works combatively if studying a long tsuka system or is on the recieving end of a bokken from a swordsman of a long tsuka system and cannot be figured out from only exposure/training in a short tsuka system. It is not rational to try a long tsuka in a short tsuka system and then dismiss long tsuka as odd when that system wasn't developed for long tuska. And vice versa. A choice of long tsuka or short tsuka should be what your style demands of you and choosing long or short tsuka simply cause "it's cool looking" is not sensible or realistic for the kind of edged weapons combat your style is designed for.

Also although Tokugawa did rule out to shortening tsuka from long to short, not all Samurai and their ryu-ha followed such orders especially those that were in regions that were outside of that rule.

Toby Threadgill Sensei of Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu which is a koryu that uses long tsuka posted some good discussion on long and short tsuka:

http://www.swordforumbugei.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2104&highlight=long+tsuka

 

[onequiks2k]

I own 3 LL Katana's. 1 is the Yashima folded blade 29 inches w/ a 10.5 Tsuka (not by choice). Another is the Tanagoshi folded 28.5 blade w/ 11 in Tsuka, & the last one is the Ameryu folded w/ 28 or 28.5 inch (I think) folded blade & 10.5 inch Tsuka...If I would have custom ordered these I think I would have had an 11 Tsuka for all of them (I am 6ft 2 in tall & the 11 in. Tsuka feels perfect).

 

[Chris deMonch]

One can only comprehend how long tsuka works combatively if studying a long tsuka system or is on the recieving end of a bokken from a swordsman of a long tsuka system and cannot be figured out from only exposure/training in a short tsuka system. It is not rational to try a long tsuka in a short tsuka system and then dismiss long tsuka as odd when that system wasn't developed for long tuska. And vice versa. A choice of long tsuka or short tsuka should be what your style demands of you and choosing long or short tsuka simply cause "it's cool looking" is not sensible or realistic for the kind of edged weapons combat your style is designed for.

I didn't mean any particular offense to those who use long tsuka, just relating my personal experience with them. While it's true Yagyu Shinkage Ryu in particular was subject to the Bakufu's regulations as to swords (what with being patronized by the Tokugawa and all), in modern day practice folks come in using a rather wide variety of sword and tsuka styles. While my tastes in sword are comparitively dull (Josun Shinogi Zukuri swords, no bohi, EVER), there are others who really dig big or differently shaped swords. My own sensei tends to prefer to use an U no Kubi Zukuri sword, and has stated his love for the Shobu Zukuri blade often enough.
In my time training I've met people coming from a rather large cross section of ryu, among them styles which advocate the use of longer tsuka. Now when it comes to wider grips I don't particularly understand the advantage of having 2 or more handspace between the hands allowable on the longer tsuka used by some systems has over the one hand space between the hands allowable on a 10.5" tsuka. I've never delved into Nami Ryu or it's base styles to find out, and am not overly interested in doing so (again, as context is difficult to relay over internet posts, I say that not to disparage folks from those ryu, mostly just that the matter of handspacing is low on my lists of priorities when I look at how other ryu do things).
Longer tsuka works for you, that's great. In my training I've found it unnecessary, but that's me. As it stands, the world in general and the sword world in particular is bigger than my tastes.

 

[Sukerkin]

Walter's point about tsuka length being largely determined by your style's requirements is a pertinent one, I reckon.

For us (MJER), our sensei prefers tsuka length to be such that, when gripped, there is not enough room for a third hand to go between your two - I suspect that this preference possibly has its roots in the ryu historically abiding by the convention of shorter tsuka.

After all muso jikiden eishin iaido is, in large part, a streets and confined spaces art, so a more compact and easily readied sword makes a degree of sense.

 

[Charles Mahan]

For us (MJER), our sensei prefers tsuka length to be such that, when gripped, there is not enough room for a third hand to go between your two - I suspect that this preference possibly has its roots in the ryu historically abiding by the convention of shorter tsuka.

If you don't mind me asking what lineage is that guideline from? In the lineage that I am from the distance between the hands should be 2 fingers wide. It's top of the mind because somehow over the years I slipped from 2 to 3 and now I'm struggling to get ack to 2.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Sukerkin]

Hi Charles

I'm not sure I understand your question. We're both MJER after all so the lineage is the same .

Anyhow, I was just saying that our sensei prefers his students to use shorter tsuka'd blades rather than longer and that I recall him saying once that the gap between the two hands should be too narrow for a third hand to go there. It's not something that he's ever made a fuss about, tho' I suspect that he would if any of us actually used anything outlandish :lol:. We all use either 9 Circles or Tozando iaito in the main so it's not ever been an issue.

 

[Charles Mahan]

There are a number of different MJER lineages that come down for Oe-sensei. The lineage I am part of runs back through my instructor and his instructors to Ikeda, Fukui, Kono, Fukui, and Hogiyama who was a student of Oe-sensei. This is the Seitokai line which is affiliated with the Zen Nippon Iaido Renmei. The MJER dojos which are directly associated with the Kendo Renmei have a somewhat different lineage usually, as do those associated with the Eikoku Roushukai.

The reason I asked which line was teaching that check is that it is a very different check than the one I was taught, namely two fingers instead of less than a hand. The one gap guideline is small, the other can be as much as 3 times larger. Just curious which line was so different from us.

 

[Cryozombie]

I have a rather long Tsuka. (12") The ladies love it. I've been told, however it's too long for some of the techniques we do, and in practicing some of them, I find it does make them difficult, so I would like a shorter one on my next sword.
​

 

[Sukerkin]

Hi Charles

Ah, I see, you were asking after the lineage of my teachers sensei rather than the Headmasters of the style .

To be frank, I don't know off the top of my head, altho' I know that in past times sensei has been taught by Iwata Sensei. We are IMAF UK so, as such, the senior teacher for our sensei was Katsuo Yamaguchi. Since his passing, Tose Keiji has been responsible for overseeing things in our neck of the woods.

I can't help but feel that a misconception is arising here and we're wandering off the topic path. What I initially passed on was a simple off-hand comment made by sensei back when I was a low kyu grade. The 'gap' issue has never been a problem because the swords we use, by nature of their tsuka dimensions, obviously leads to a situation where the gap size is within acceptable parameters. However, as is always best in these matters, I shall bear in mind to ask sensei this weekend and I'll let you know what he said.

 

[Charles Mahan]

That's cool. We are getting off the topic. We are probably not so different in practice. Yamaguchi-sensei was once a member of the MJER Seitokai, like myself, and I think ended up rejoining at some point. While there is certainly room for variation within different instructors within the seitokai, tenouchi tends to be very similar amoung all the different folks I've seen with only slight variation.