What is the difference between a Caucus and a Primary?

[Rich Parsons]

I am curious.

What is the difference between a Caucus and a Primary?

Thanks

 

[Live True]

I excitedly opened this post...having just had the same question....to find no posts :idunno:
so I did the next best thing...I googled it.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/politicalsystem/a/delegateprocess.htm
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2004/primaries/sr_primary_caucus.html

Thanks Rich for getting me off my butt to learn something I should have known!! cool!:cheers:

 

[aedrasteia]

Rich and Live True

OK OK - here goes. this is way long and probably only appealing to political junkies or those who really like to do hands on democracy.

Presidential primaries or caucuses are the main methods used by the 2 major parties to select delegates to the respective national conventions where they cast their votes for the candidte they supported.

I've done both and managed Dem. presidentail caususes (caucusii ?)at the precinct level twice in my state. My state decided to move from caucus to primary several elections ago partly because the caucus is complicated and very time consuming. Primaries are expensive. In some states the party privately runs the primary, in most the party pays the state election agency to do it - it can be a massive job.

Primary is fast, one shot. If you are a registered voter, go to the polling place and vote. Some states (like New Hampshire and North Dakota) have same day registration and voting. Each candidate who has filed with that party will appear on the ballot (usually with a list of the delegates pledged to support him/her). The voter selects and that's it. There are 2 kinds of primaries: open and closed ...and of course semi-closed .

Closed primary: each party's primary is open to participation only from registered voters who selected that party affiliation when they registered
or the voters who are registered Independents. So Republicans and Independents can vote in a Republican primary, Democrats and Independents can vote in a Democratic primary. Independents can vote in only one of the primaries. Many states have the primaries in the same building - one line for the GOP and another for the Dems - so Independents can't do both.

Open primary: any registered voter can vote in a presidential (or state)primary of any party. Voters must declare that they have _not_ voted in another presidential primary that year, but voting in one party's primary does not constitute declaring membership in that party.

Semi-closed: Voters who have declared membership can vote in their party's primary. In addition, undeclared or Independent registered voters can vote in a party primary but by doing so they declare themselves members of that party until they 'undeclare' or disaffiliate under the regulations in their states.

Eyes glazing over yet?

A caucus is a process for selecting party delegates to the national convention that begins at the smallest level (ward/precinct) and uses proportional representation (with pre-set minimum requirements). Under Democratic rules voters group together based on their preference (or none if they are undeclared). If their group equals 15% of the total number of qualified people gathered at the meeting, they will get some level of representation in the group of county delegates to be selected. Same thing happens at the county level and state (although there are lots more requirments and rules at state level).

GOP rules are generally similar. I know the tiny details of both but they really do put people to sleep.

So - if you were a Edwards voter and you went to your Iowa caucus meeting and 100 voters attended, you would need to have a minimum of 15 people to make the cut for getting any delegate vote to the county convention. The total number of delegates from your precinct to the county convention would depend how many people in your county voted Democtatic in the last presidential election. The number your Edwards group could get would depend on the size of the Clinton, Obama, Richardson etc groups whio actually show up that night at your meeting - so nobody has any idea how well they will do till everybody shows up and people start counting - and fighting over the rules and the numbers and percentages. If your Edwards group only had 11 people show - thats not enough - Edwards is out (unless you can persuade or buy off 4 undeclared people) and you and your folks have a couple of options: go home; become non-paticipants and just watch; switch to another candidate's group (for some pay-off maybe); connect with the others who didn't make the cut and try to get an undeclared group thats big enough or follow the directions of your candidate about who to go over to.

That was one of the twists in Iowa - I didn't hear much from the bloviating pundits about it, but both Dennis Kuchinch and Bill Richardson asked their supporters to go for Obama if they didn't meet the cut. This can look small at the individual precinct level (so the Obama groups gets 1 more person) but across the whole state it can mean 1-3 percent.

Eyes glazed over yet?

The caucus method is serious democracy, very participatory and unexpected. Group leaders for the various candidates really ahve to know all the details and rules - but the precinct officers run the show and they have to be even more on top of the process. Everybody has calculators and I always asked every pres. group to pick a statistician to run the numbers as we moved along.

Most fun was the dealing that went on as people realized they hadn't met the precentage cut and other groups went after them - sometimes adding 1 or 2 more people meant your guy/girl will get another percentage and qualify for another delegate. It can get funny, mean, crazy and the rule was no beer till we finish.

any questions?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Rich and Live True

OK OK - here goes. this is way long and probably only appealing to political junkies or those who really like to do hands on democracy.

Presidential primaries or caucuses are the main methods used by the 2 major parties to select delegates to the respective national conventions where they cast their votes for the candidte they supported.

I've done both and managed Dem. presidentail caususes (caucusii ?)at the precinct level twice in my state. My state decided to move from caucus to primary several elections ago partly because the caucus is complicated and very time consuming. Primaries are expensive. In some states the party privately runs the primary, in most the party pays the state election agency to do it - it can be a massive job.

Primary is fast, one shot. If you are a registered voter, go to the polling place and vote. Some states (like New Hampshire and North Dakota) have same day registration and voting. Each candidate who has filed with that party will appear on the ballot (usually with a list of the delegates pledged to support him/her). The voter selects and that's it. There are 2 kinds of primaries: open and closed ...and of course semi-closed .

Closed primary: each party's primary is open to participation only from registered voters who selected that party affiliation when they registered
or the voters who are registered Independents. So Republicans and Independents can vote in a Republican primary, Democrats and Independents can vote in a Democratic primary. Independents can vote in only one of the primaries. Many states have the primaries in the same building - one line for the GOP and another for the Dems - so Independents can't do both.

Open primary: any registered voter can vote in a presidential (or state)primary of any party. Voters must declare that they have _not_ voted in another presidential primary that year, but voting in one party's primary does not constitute declaring membership in that party.

Semi-closed: Voters who have declared membership can vote in their party's primary. In addition, undeclared or Independent registered voters can vote in a party primary but by doing so they declare themselves members of that party until they 'undeclare' or disaffiliate under the regulations in their states.

Eyes glazing over yet?

A caucus is a process for selecting party delegates to the national convention that begins at the smallest level (ward/precinct) and uses proportional representation (with pre-set minimum requirements). Under Democratic rules voters group together based on their preference (or none if they are undeclared). If their group equals 15% of the total number of qualified people gathered at the meeting, they will get some level of representation in the group of county delegates to be selected. Same thing happens at the county level and state (although there are lots more requirments and rules at state level).

GOP rules are generally similar. I know the tiny details of both but they really do put people to sleep.

So - if you were a Edwards voter and you went to your Iowa caucus meeting and 100 voters attended, you would need to have a minimum of 15 people to make the cut for getting any delegate vote to the county convention. The total number of delegates from your precinct to the county convention would depend how many people in your county voted Democtatic in the last presidential election. The number your Edwards group could get would depend on the size of the Clinton, Obama, Richardson etc groups whio actually show up that night at your meeting - so nobody has any idea how well they will do till everybody shows up and people start counting - and fighting over the rules and the numbers and percentages. If your Edwards group only had 11 people show - thats not enough - Edwards is out (unless you can persuade or buy off 4 undeclared people) and you and your folks have a couple of options: go home; become non-paticipants and just watch; switch to another candidate's group (for some pay-off maybe); connect with the others who didn't make the cut and try to get an undeclared group thats big enough or follow the directions of your candidate about who to go over to.

That was one of the twists in Iowa - I didn't hear much from the bloviating pundits about it, but both Dennis Kuchinch and Bill Richardson asked their supporters to go for Obama if they didn't meet the cut. This can look small at the individual precinct level (so the Obama groups gets 1 more person) but across the whole state it can mean 1-3 percent.

Eyes glazed over yet?

The caucus method is serious democracy, very participatory and unexpected. Group leaders for the various candidates really ahve to know all the details and rules - but the precinct officers run the show and they have to be even more on top of the process. Everybody has calculators and I always asked every pres. group to pick a statistician to run the numbers as we moved along.

Most fun was the dealing that went on as people realized they hadn't met the precentage cut and other groups went after them - sometimes adding 1 or 2 more people meant your guy/girl will get another percentage and qualify for another delegate. It can get funny, mean, crazy and the rule was no beer till we finish.

any questions?

Thank you for this information.