Ok guys this topic is very much debatable on which is correct "Original or Concept". I just want to hear some down to earth definitions " Of Your Jeet Kune Do"!
What is jeet Kune Do?
- Thread starter James Kovacich
- Start date
JKD is the name of a philosphy By Bruce Lee that people made into a "art". Though by the very diffinition of JKD, it contains no techniques, and all Techniques. Hence,more of a philosophy, then a "system" or "art".
Michael Tabone
Michael Tabone
Hey,
I asked that question myself. I went to the Inosanto Academy to try and find out. I came to realize that I needed to look at the guy's (Bruce Lee's) notes. I needed to see what he did and what he was trying to discover. I think the best way to catch a glimpse of what JKD was to Bruce Lee is to read The Tao of Jeet Kune Do . And with that as the background, read The Analects ,The Tao Te Ching , Krishnamurti's writings, and The Pali Canon . Also read what other people thought of what he was looking for, like Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, etc. From there, I think that you may be able to start to understand what he was looking for. Then you might get JKD or at least what it may be to you.
I asked that question myself. I went to the Inosanto Academy to try and find out. I came to realize that I needed to look at the guy's (Bruce Lee's) notes. I needed to see what he did and what he was trying to discover. I think the best way to catch a glimpse of what JKD was to Bruce Lee is to read The Tao of Jeet Kune Do . And with that as the background, read The Analects ,The Tao Te Ching , Krishnamurti's writings, and The Pali Canon . Also read what other people thought of what he was looking for, like Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, etc. From there, I think that you may be able to start to understand what he was looking for. Then you might get JKD or at least what it may be to you.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
"JKD is the name of a philosphy By Bruce Lee that people made into a "art". Though by the very diffinition of JKD, it contains no techniques, and all Techniques. Hence,more of a philosophy, then a "system" or "art"."
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If people made it then what were the techniques that Bruce practiced? And also by definition "The way of the Intercepting Fist", the exact translation of Jeet Kune Do is a name that represents something physical. But Bruce did say he wished he didn't name his art. Yes, I believe it was his art. But he wanted us to discover ourselves, our truth, our art.
I think that Bruces techniques were a part of his self discovery. But why can't some one else take the "same path" of self discovery? It worked for Bruce. Couldn't it work for someone else also?
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If people made it then what were the techniques that Bruce practiced? And also by definition "The way of the Intercepting Fist", the exact translation of Jeet Kune Do is a name that represents something physical. But Bruce did say he wished he didn't name his art. Yes, I believe it was his art. But he wanted us to discover ourselves, our truth, our art.
I think that Bruces techniques were a part of his self discovery. But why can't some one else take the "same path" of self discovery? It worked for Bruce. Couldn't it work for someone else also?
Krishnamurdi was one of Bruce Lee's influences.
In response to your comment about following Bruces Path to self discovery we are all different, and Krishnamurdi said it best.
He said " You can not be the light of Jesus. You can not be the Light of the Buddha. You must be the light of yourself."
Being everyone has different streanghts and weaknesses, everyones techniques will be different in there JKD. A style is dipiced by practice of the same moves, forms, defence, ect, ect,ect. JKD has none of the same, just same theory. This is why I call it a philosophy, and not a style.
You can not be the light of Bruce. You can only be the light of yourself.
Michael Tabone
In response to your comment about following Bruces Path to self discovery we are all different, and Krishnamurdi said it best.
He said " You can not be the light of Jesus. You can not be the Light of the Buddha. You must be the light of yourself."
Being everyone has different streanghts and weaknesses, everyones techniques will be different in there JKD. A style is dipiced by practice of the same moves, forms, defence, ect, ect,ect. JKD has none of the same, just same theory. This is why I call it a philosophy, and not a style.
You can not be the light of Bruce. You can only be the light of yourself.
Michael Tabone
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
http://www.geocities.com/Tao_Of_Gung_Fu/The_Nucleus_Of_Gung_Fu.html
Bro, I say what I say because my Sigung came from the Oakland school but they don't follow the same path as the other Oakland guys. And they don't use the JKD name either. I just like to raise the questions that come to mind. I think that Bruce taught to the individual and with his untimely death, theres a lot of chaos as to who is certified to teach and I'm right and your wrong. My training came from the original but it is modified because it has evolved for 30 years but not in the direction of the concepts. They kept a lot of the original and modified that. It's their way!
I personally practice other arts to fill the wholes.
Go ahead and check out my Sifus site.
Bro, I say what I say because my Sigung came from the Oakland school but they don't follow the same path as the other Oakland guys. And they don't use the JKD name either. I just like to raise the questions that come to mind. I think that Bruce taught to the individual and with his untimely death, theres a lot of chaos as to who is certified to teach and I'm right and your wrong. My training came from the original but it is modified because it has evolved for 30 years but not in the direction of the concepts. They kept a lot of the original and modified that. It's their way!
I personally practice other arts to fill the wholes.
Go ahead and check out my Sifus site.
white belt
Brown Belt
Read Alan W. Watts books. You will have a deeper understanding of what and who Bruce Lee was/is.
white belt
white belt
OP
- Thread Starter
- #8
I hear ya buddy, did this guy actually Know Bruce?
white belt
Brown Belt
AKJA,
I have no knowledge of them meeting. I may seem like some kind of philosophy wacko when talking about this guy Watts, but he was so aligned with the JKD mindset of Bruce's that I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce studied his lectures. In fact when reading his lectures you get the feeling that Bruce may have studied him. The feeling you get sometimes when reading Bruce's notes is that he is trying vey hard to explain something that is just outside his ability to communicate with others. Watt's was/is my bridge. I am primarily a TKD man, but the JKD/Watt's way of reexamining things helped me find things hidden in my art by experiencing other arts then stepping back and looking at the bigger picture. The "Classical Mess" is steadily becoming more tidy for me by not following tradition for traditions sake. I follow tradition to find how we moderns are reinventing the wheel. I have Bruce and Alan to thank in large part. Spend a few bucks on one of Watts paperbacks or try the library if interested. Philosophy is not everyones interest, but it can help some very physical experiences level of quality.
white belt
I have no knowledge of them meeting. I may seem like some kind of philosophy wacko when talking about this guy Watts, but he was so aligned with the JKD mindset of Bruce's that I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce studied his lectures. In fact when reading his lectures you get the feeling that Bruce may have studied him. The feeling you get sometimes when reading Bruce's notes is that he is trying vey hard to explain something that is just outside his ability to communicate with others. Watt's was/is my bridge. I am primarily a TKD man, but the JKD/Watt's way of reexamining things helped me find things hidden in my art by experiencing other arts then stepping back and looking at the bigger picture. The "Classical Mess" is steadily becoming more tidy for me by not following tradition for traditions sake. I follow tradition to find how we moderns are reinventing the wheel. I have Bruce and Alan to thank in large part. Spend a few bucks on one of Watts paperbacks or try the library if interested. Philosophy is not everyones interest, but it can help some very physical experiences level of quality.
white belt
white belt
Brown Belt
The "What is JKD?" question is more illuminated on an MT Hapkido thread comparing influences between HKD and JKD. Check it out.
white belt
white belt
OP
- Thread Starter
- #14
I may seem like some kind of philosophy wacko when talking about this guy Watts, but he was so aligned with the JKD mindset of Bruce's that I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce studied his lectures.
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I see, I've heard other JKD people talk of Watts before but I didn't "understand" the "association". Like I mentioned briefly before, my Sifu and Sigung don't use the JKD name for personal reasons regarding my Sigung and the other Oakland group. THE ONLY REASON I use the name JKD is because people, even a few that I teach, get confused when I talk about. "My Art" which is based on Jun Fan Technique. That is the simplest description of my stand up game. "Kempo Jujitsu", the "fist way" and the "gentle way" are the core of my technique.
I've been in a few forums for a while now and I think that I am going to eliminate the JKD name from my "martial resume", out of respect to my Sifu and Sigung and my other Sifu and Sensei and the "JKD practitioners" of today and yesterday.
My Kempo Jujitsu is deeply rooted in the "Oakland Jun Fan Gung-Fu" through "lineage and technique" but not "conceptually". I understand and practice the concepts behind the techniques but it is my personal belief that there is too much of the "hacking away" and "dissolving" of the techniques.
In any martial art you should "hack away" in order to speed up and perfect your technique but when you have found what works well, I believe that you should be "perfecting" and honing in you techniques with less emphasis on the "dissolving" of the technique.
Today in the UFC arena, I see 20 year olds coming up "complete fighters. Thats great, I believe in training and teaching all ranges together and separately. If you only practice them together you will never be able to find your "niche" in the arts. Its very true that some techniques are better than others and that is for the most part been "competition battle proven"!
But you can practically count the actual number of techniques that they use on your hands! I very much recognize those techniques and there is NO ROOM to "DISSOLVE". "Perfect" yes. Only the future will tell, but I see the evolution at hand. I see the new generation that is already here and 2 of my nephews are a part. But since the new generations roots have already been "hacked away" it needs to built upon to grow new branches!
The future of JKD is a direction that may not have any relation to its creator Bruce Lee. Thats fine. That may be what he intended. It will be what it will be. My training is in Jun Fan Gung-Fu through James Lee to Felix Macias Sr. to Felix Macias Jr. to me. My art is mine and it is different just like my Sifu always said.
No body knows the future. Only time will tell. Im not going away, I just came to the realization that I shouldnt call my art something that it isnt so that somebody will know what Im talking about!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see, I've heard other JKD people talk of Watts before but I didn't "understand" the "association". Like I mentioned briefly before, my Sifu and Sigung don't use the JKD name for personal reasons regarding my Sigung and the other Oakland group. THE ONLY REASON I use the name JKD is because people, even a few that I teach, get confused when I talk about. "My Art" which is based on Jun Fan Technique. That is the simplest description of my stand up game. "Kempo Jujitsu", the "fist way" and the "gentle way" are the core of my technique.
I've been in a few forums for a while now and I think that I am going to eliminate the JKD name from my "martial resume", out of respect to my Sifu and Sigung and my other Sifu and Sensei and the "JKD practitioners" of today and yesterday.
My Kempo Jujitsu is deeply rooted in the "Oakland Jun Fan Gung-Fu" through "lineage and technique" but not "conceptually". I understand and practice the concepts behind the techniques but it is my personal belief that there is too much of the "hacking away" and "dissolving" of the techniques.
In any martial art you should "hack away" in order to speed up and perfect your technique but when you have found what works well, I believe that you should be "perfecting" and honing in you techniques with less emphasis on the "dissolving" of the technique.
Today in the UFC arena, I see 20 year olds coming up "complete fighters. Thats great, I believe in training and teaching all ranges together and separately. If you only practice them together you will never be able to find your "niche" in the arts. Its very true that some techniques are better than others and that is for the most part been "competition battle proven"!
But you can practically count the actual number of techniques that they use on your hands! I very much recognize those techniques and there is NO ROOM to "DISSOLVE". "Perfect" yes. Only the future will tell, but I see the evolution at hand. I see the new generation that is already here and 2 of my nephews are a part. But since the new generations roots have already been "hacked away" it needs to built upon to grow new branches!
The future of JKD is a direction that may not have any relation to its creator Bruce Lee. Thats fine. That may be what he intended. It will be what it will be. My training is in Jun Fan Gung-Fu through James Lee to Felix Macias Sr. to Felix Macias Jr. to me. My art is mine and it is different just like my Sifu always said.
No body knows the future. Only time will tell. Im not going away, I just came to the realization that I shouldnt call my art something that it isnt so that somebody will know what Im talking about!
W
WhiteTiger
Guest
Not being a formal JKD practisioner, I don't know if I am quaified to evaluate the philosophical basis of JKD. Howerer I do feel compelled to offer my opinion.
I view JKD as a thesis, the defining work of a martial arts genius, which transformed the entire concept of what the martial arts are. Go to any local MA studio on sparring night and you will see his concepts being taught. Addimttedly some do a better job than others, some have even changed the name in order to claim some credit for inventing a "system", but the philosophy began with JKD. Therefore I say JKD transends any specific art, and is applicable to both all an none.
In my opinion you cannot teach JKD, as Bruce describes it in his book, as a stand alone art. Rather it is the advanced application of all arts. You must have a base on which to build these concepts, usually in some more traditional art, (karate, gung fu, tae kwon do, ect.). To use an analogy, "You must walk before you can fly".
As a Kenpo practisioner I was introduced to the JKD concepts under the name of the "Joe Lewis Fight ing Method". Only after my own research did I learn that Joe Lewis was a student of Bruce's, as were many other suscessful competition fighters of the late 60's and early 70's. But that's just a coincidence - NOT! It could certainly be argued that the JKD philosophy spawned the birth of professional MA competitions.
I view JKD as a thesis, the defining work of a martial arts genius, which transformed the entire concept of what the martial arts are. Go to any local MA studio on sparring night and you will see his concepts being taught. Addimttedly some do a better job than others, some have even changed the name in order to claim some credit for inventing a "system", but the philosophy began with JKD. Therefore I say JKD transends any specific art, and is applicable to both all an none.
In my opinion you cannot teach JKD, as Bruce describes it in his book, as a stand alone art. Rather it is the advanced application of all arts. You must have a base on which to build these concepts, usually in some more traditional art, (karate, gung fu, tae kwon do, ect.). To use an analogy, "You must walk before you can fly".
As a Kenpo practisioner I was introduced to the JKD concepts under the name of the "Joe Lewis Fight ing Method". Only after my own research did I learn that Joe Lewis was a student of Bruce's, as were many other suscessful competition fighters of the late 60's and early 70's. But that's just a coincidence - NOT! It could certainly be argued that the JKD philosophy spawned the birth of professional MA competitions.
OffendedOnyx
Yellow Belt
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JKD is a hyrbid martial art.
It took from Wing Chun, Boxing, and Fencing originally.
Most people from what I understand now define it as a Wing Chun, MMA, Arnis fusion curriculum.
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
Interesting, I think that the ideology of Watts is definitely part of a greater body of work that influenced JKD. Watts is the introduction to the Daoist and Tantric precepts for many people in the Western world that may not know much about those spiritual systems.
I've had a few Macias Jr folk in my group in SoCal. Each one always referred to what they do as just Gung Fu.
As for what JKD is, I've trained both sides of the fence, WC, fencing, and other things. To me, I would say that JKD the newest form of modern Gung Fu.
I'll translate it as, "When you punch me, I'll hit your punching arm." But I have never seen any JKD guy does that.
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