What is Chi in plain language?

[Towel Snapper]

Cmon stop rick rollin me guys and tell me straight.

 

[mograph]

Are you saying its kinetic energy? Electrical? What energy do you mean?

Muscles work via a filament shortening to create a pulling motion between two places, triggered by the nervous system.

Also why do you have to drop hints why not tell me directly? e.g. its this energy or that energy, why the need for hints?

Your cup is not empty: you are seeking to define Qi in terms of Western science. We must not treat science as truth. It is not. Good scientists know that. Science is a human-designed method of mapping nature based on philosophy, argument, claims, organized questions, organized observations and organized conclusions. Nothing IS electrical energy: that is just a human phrase for an observed phenomenon. Kinetic energy? Like potential energy, that's a construct. It's not measured, it's calculated from measurable mass, position change and time.

We should not hang onto our scientific constructs as if they ARE nature: they are merely our maps of nature. And while science makes pretty good maps, they should not be mistaken for nature.

Back to Qi and Xuesheng's muscle issue: to go a bit deeper, sure, filaments tighten to shorten a muscle. But what makes the filaments tighten? Electrochemical reactions, right? What makes electrochemical reactions happen? Nuclear forces, maybe? What makes those happen?

This goes to my "whatever" construct: nuclear bonds, charges, reactions at the subatomic level ... what makes those happen? Does science have a name for it? Let's give it a name: "Fred." Or we could use "Qi." It doesn't matter.

Now ... can we use it to our benefit? That's the real question.

 

[Cirdan]

Thoughts, will, feelings, intentions, focus.. things that can`t be fully measured or fit into precise models as of yet but exist just as well. I am as sceptical as they come (and my day job is in a lab btw), but that does not mean nothing exists until it can be defined and pinpointed precisely. Models are by definition simplifications of what we experience. Chi does not fit right into a model because it is what we have before simplifying rather than after.

 

[mograph]

This is John Vervaeke, one of my Profs at U of T, speaking about qi. He's a cognitive scientist, a very smart guy and a great teacher. His lectures are not sound bites, they're concepts building on concepts.

Yes, it's about an hour and twenty long. Hey, it's a lecture!

... but there's no shame in looking up some of the terms (such as "epistemic") he uses. I have to do that, because I'm not a cognitive scientist.

(FYI, I'm a middle-aged guy, getting my B.Sc. in Psychology part-time.)

 

[K-man]

This is John Vervaeke, one of my Profs at U of T, speaking about qi. He's a cognitive scientist, a very smart guy and a great teacher. His lectures are not sound bites, they're concepts building on concepts.

Yes, it's about an hour and twenty long. Hey, it's a lecture!

... but there's no shame in looking up some of the terms (such as "epistemic") he uses. I have to do that, because I'm not a cognitive scientist.

(FYI, I'm a middle-aged guy, getting my B.Sc. in Psychology part-time.)

Really interesting to hear his take on it. Things like zone of proximal development (beyond your skills) and bi-directional modelling link in with what we experience in practice. I'd really like to be able to discuss it with him first hand. He uses the expression weird. When people ask me about Ki I tell them it is 'weird science'. Thank you for posting.
:asian:

 

[Tez3]

That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and eccentric muscular strength, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. ............................................


QUOTE]


I think I have eccentric strength. :supcool:

 

[K-man]

That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and eccentric muscular strength, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. ............................................


QUOTE]


I think I have eccentric strength. :supcool:

I think I'm just eccentric.

 

[Tez3]

I think I'm just eccentric.

You have to be English to be eccentric, it's in the genes, everyone else is just bonkers. :lool:

 

[K-man]

You have to be English to be eccentric, it's in the genes, everyone else is just bonkers. :lool:

Well just over a quarter of my genes came from England. The rest came from Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Than makes it British ancestry but not full blown Pom. I believe that entitles me to claim eccentricity, irrationality, inanity and insecurity in my job description. Is it that combination that creates 'bonkers'? :s407:

 

[Touch Of Death]

I am a bit brick-shy, myself. ... from Brickshire.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I inherited a Scottish Baronial title (sadly, without a castle, land or serfs). Does that qualify me to be labeled "eccentric" rather than "starkers"?

 

[K-man]

I inherited a Scottish Baronial title (sadly, without a castle, land or serfs). Does that qualify me to be labeled "eccentric" rather than "starkers"?

Mate, if you are running round 'starkers' then that undoubtably qualifies you as something but Tez has cornered the 'eccentric' tag for the English. Now Scotland was almost a different country entirely but seeing they elected to stay in the Union you can have the choice of 'inane', 'irrational' or 'insecure'. Hmm, I might leave that up to you ... but congratulations my Lord on your elevation. I will endeavour to be more humble in your presence.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm related to Frederick William I of Prussia and my ex-wife (who was simply looking for ways to be elitist with all those she knew) figured out that somehow through a marriage of, I believe it was one of his daughters, to someone in England I am also related (if true I'm guessing barely related) to the house of Windsor....wow that was a lot of typing to simply ask... can I then be eccentric

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm related to Frederick William I of Prussia and my ex-wife (who was simply looking for ways to be elitist with all those she knew) figured out that somehow through a marriage of, I believe it was one of his daughters, to someone in England I am also related (if true I'm guessing barely related) to the house of Windsor....wow that was a lot of typing to simply ask... can I then be eccentric

That's certainly an eccentric family tree...

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's certainly an eccentric family tree...

It gets better...... another branch (both on my mothers side) got kicked out of Scotland by James the 1st.... and they went to Ireland..... where they where not welcome and then moved on to Nova Scotia..... umm.... where they were not welcome... and then moved to Pennsylvania...and they were home

Oh and then the 2 branches meant and the rest is history

 

[cloud dancing]

There is pre-birth chi.when inside the mother's womb it is ONE.there is no in and out breath the breath is one.Hindus say inside baby stays in Samadhi-merged with creative life force. After birth the chi divides into two.Yin and yang.Inbreath is first,Baby is born and first breath is in =yang =light. then human dies- breathes out=yin=darkness.Birth is LIGHT.DEATH is DARKNESS.when practising one breathes to the dtan tien with tongue lightly up to the back of the teeth.Breathing in to an imaginary small soccer ball inside the abdomen.When the chi accumulates strength increases.Chi is the manifestation of soul/inner energy /god into this world.Muscles ahve force not chi.Chi cneters in the tendons and in the bone marrow.Sea of chi is inside the dtan tien. chi must be exprienced to be understood.As you practise the internal arts,time comes when you FEEL THE CHI moving you.effortless effort is the chi,As if the move is doing itself.With daily practise comes experience.MASTER LI SAID EXTEND YOUR FINGERS-the energy you feel is the chi.Chi allows the miracles extreme power of the greats/Yang cheng fu.pa qua masters etc. Chi is energy but existing inside the breath.With each breath chi enters and exits the body.hindus would say pranayama. many will troll what I have to say this is my experience and is a simple as I can explain it.One mastre in Tuscon Arizona asked his students"Do you belive that Jesus walked on water?" He took a small group to an isolated area and showed them how with the CHI he was able to walk on the water.Yang Cheng fu would walk and leave no footprints.then walk and the snow under his feet would be completely melted.Chi manifests as heat or cold .One example was that a neighbor asked Yang if he could borrow some money.Master Yang said Grab hold of the end of my spear and I will throw you onto the roof of my house.If you land standing up-I will loan you the money.He did and was thrown onto the roof landing standing up.Science says it is impossible to generate strength from the hands being the fulcrum the spear the lever to throw a 150 or 160pound man from the ground onto the 15 foot high roof of a house. Simply practise dtan breathing.what does an apple taste like= eat one and find out.Chi is the divine enrgy of the soul manifesting into the physical world of duality which why chi is postulated as yin=darkness & yang-light.Saying it is a Chinese word is {my opinion} simply a copout for not being able to explain it with simplicity or just not knowing what it is. LIGHT DESTROYS DARKNESS.KNOWLEDGE DESTROYS IGNORANCE.

 

[Tez3]

There is pre-birth chi.when inside the mother's womb it is ONE.there is no in and out breath the breath is one.Hindus say inside baby stays in Samadhi-merged with creative life force. After birth the chi divides into two.Yin and yang.Inbreath is first,Baby is born and first breath is in =yang =light. then human dies- breathes out=yin=darkness.Birth is LIGHT.DEATH is DARKNESS.when practising one breathes to the dtan tien with tongue lightly up to the back of the teeth.Breathing in to an imaginary small soccer ball inside the abdomen.When the chi accumulates strength increases.Chi is the manifestation of soul/inner energy /god into this world.Muscles ahve force not chi.Chi cneters in the tendons and in the bone marrow.Sea of chi is inside the dtan tien. chi must be exprienced to be understood.As you practise the internal arts,time comes when you FEEL THE CHI moving you.effortless effort is the chi,As if the move is doing itself.With daily practise comes experience.MASTER LI SAID EXTEND YOUR FINGERS-the energy you feel is the chi.Chi allows the miracles extreme power of the greats/Yang cheng fu.pa qua masters etc. Chi is energy but existing inside the breath.With each breath chi enters and exits the body.hindus would say pranayama. many will troll what I have to say this is my experience and is a simple as I can explain it.One mastre in Tuscon Arizona asked his students"Do you belive that Jesus walked on water?" He took a small group to an isolated area and showed them how with the CHI he was able to walk on the water.Yang Cheng fu would walk and leave no footprints.then walk and the snow under his feet would be completely melted.Chi manifests as heat or cold .One example was that a neighbor asked Yang if he could borrow some money.Master Yang said Grab hold of the end of my spear and I will throw you onto the roof of my house.If you land standing up-I will loan you the money.He did and was thrown onto the roof landing standing up.Science says it is impossible to generate strength from the hands being the fulcrum the spear the lever to throw a 150 or 160pound man from the ground onto the 15 foot high roof of a house. Simply practise dtan breathing.what does an apple taste like= eat one and find out.Chi is the divine enrgy of the soul manifesting into the physical world of duality which why chi is postulated as yin=darkness & yang-light.Saying it is a Chinese word is {my opinion} simply a copout for not being able to explain it with simplicity or just not knowing what it is. LIGHT DESTROYS DARKNESS.KNOWLEDGE DESTROYS IGNORANCE.[/QUOTE

THIS WINS THE PRIZE I BELIEVE.

 

[Xue Sheng]

THIS WINS THE PRIZE I BELIEVE.

Yup... you could call it that.... it sure is a winner

 

[Tez3]

Yup... you could call it that.... it sure is a winner

Yep, I abdicate my crown of eccentricity. We have a new winner.

 

[mograph]

Really interesting to hear his take on it. Things like zone of proximal development (beyond your skills) and bi-directional modelling link in with what we experience in practice. I'd really like to be able to discuss it with him first hand. He uses the expression weird. When people ask me about Ki I tell them it is 'weird science'. Thank you for posting.
:asian:

Thanks for watching. Vervaeke has plenty of videos on YouTube.
I hope to take his Tai Chi class next week. I'll report back.