what is black dot focus? what is it not?

[Touch Of Death]

I actually thought it was simpler than all this--"white dot," focus, you only see the center and nothing around that center, "black dot," focus, you don't see the center, and you only see everything around it.

And I consider myself uniquely qualified to say this, because I screwed the whole thing up (got it backwards) while I was teaching a group class, with the Tatums watching, of course. Sweet.

As for the terms being silly, well, no sillier than anything else in the martial arts. Pretty much everything we say about them is some sort of metaphor or tool, anyway...

Then there's the essential silliness of the whole gi-and-belt deal, or of practice, or of all our pretenses...

I suppose you could limit the concept to what you see and what you don't see, but then its usefullness wains.
sean

 

[Rainman]

I actually thought it was simpler than all this--"white dot," focus, you only see the center and nothing around that center, "black dot," focus, you don't see the center, and you only see everything around it.

And I consider myself uniquely qualified to say this, because I screwed the whole thing up (got it backwards) while I was teaching a group class, with the Tatums watching, of course. Sweet.

As for the terms being silly, well, no sillier than anything else in the martial arts. Pretty much everything we say about them is some sort of metaphor or tool, anyway...

Then there's the essential silliness of the whole gi-and-belt deal, or of practice, or of all our pretenses...

Just tell you you are wrong when you are wrong...okay

Not exactly wrong but the discussion of the art being 3 dimensional (at least) should have provoked you to investigate depth. How many things can use depth? How many ways can depth be used? How many zones of depth are there? Can depth be cancelled? Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera,

The language of the art has never been silly. Uniforms provide durable and washable attire in which to comfortabley train in. Nothing more. Is it the belts, or is it the people who wear them? Or is it the color? Or the stripes? Or the bars?

Metaphors- simple philosophy is it not? AK is at one point philosohpical, logical and symbolic...no?

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Not exactly wrong but the discussion of the art being 3 dimensional (at least) should have provoked you to investigate depth. How many things can use depth? How many ways can depth be used? How many zones of depth are there? Can depth be cancelled? Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera,

Man, wished I'd of thought of that, back to the drawing board. I didn't realize the discussion went from the BD/WD logic to the Universal Pattern. So what are those dimensions again, Height,__,__, __, I can never remember? And how is it you go about cancelling them?

Dark Lord

 

[Rainman]

Man, wished I'd of thought of that, back to the drawing board. I didn't realize the discussion went from the BD/WD logic to the Universal Pattern. So what are those dimensions again, Height,__,__, __, I can never remember? And how is it you go about cancelling them?

Dark Lord

Okay- width, depth, obscurity... Yes you did the universal pattern is placed over a black dot- or a white dot made into a patch that goes on the sleeve or your uniform... or do the stars and stripes obsure your vision?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh, for cryin' out loud. The implications of black dot/white dot may be multiple, but the basic idea's pretty straightforward. For a reason, too.

And "width, depth, obscurity?"

Folks, off the deep end in theory. And remember, me is somebody who went to a medium-highfaluting grad school and studied literary theory. All through the 1980s. When one of THOSE clowns tells you you're going off the deep end of theory...well, I'd listen.

As for silliness, well, seems to me that a good solid understanding of the essential goofiness of all human action is as important as a good solid understanding of our tragedy.

This kind of stuff is gonna drive me to using a psuedonym, I swear to Lord Dark Helmet.

 

[Rainman]

Oh, for cryin' out loud. The implications of black dot/white dot may be multiple, but the basic idea's pretty straightforward. For a reason, too.

And "width, depth, obscurity?"

Folks, off the deep end in theory. And remember, me is somebody who went to a medium-highfaluting grad school and studied literary theory. All through the 1980s. When one of THOSE clowns tells you you're going off the deep end of theory...well, I'd listen.

As for silliness, well, seems to me that a good solid understanding of the essential goofiness of all human action is as important as a good solid understanding of our tragedy.

This kind of stuff is gonna drive me to using a psuedonym, I swear to Lord Dark Helmet.

O c'mon now- this isn't even the technical stuff! 20 year old basix right out of II. You don't think Ed Parker Sr. put his best material out for all to consume' do you?

Obviously if you do not superimpose the universal pattern over the black dot you are using less of the concept. There is no for crying out loud. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Only you know what your needs are. If the concept ends where you say it does for specific reasons, that is what your students will think as well. Absolutes are absolutely for stepping on and that is all they are for. That is basically what makes Kenpo a living breathing art. It only stagnates if you do.

I have already gone full circle about the goofiness of uniforms, the schools that KIAI, the white vs. black uniform, the I hate these things, to the functionality of them. They function well that is the reason for them. You can grapple, pull, tug, fight, whatever and the uniforms stays in-tact. Street cloths fall apart get shredded and so on. Then add economics after the initial 60 bucks- and how long the thing lasts compared to your ripped up street cloths.

Goofiness- Sure but this is a place of the written word and since I am not a wordsmythe by trade it is not going to come across in this medium. As I read the rank and file thread, most of the people on the kenpo fora are BB's. Somewhere around that time- maybe 2nd black, the limits should be removed. The fora should provide an excellent place for limitless exploration. All this nay say stuff does not belong in black belt ranks for AK and my primary reasoning for this is- there is no action in cyberdom- it is all thought and the perfect place to explore and push beyond where you were yesturday. That is if you so desire and only if you desire to keep exploring. Different goals for different people.

Exploration- So now the USA is exploring mars. Been around the world and been to the moon. What happens when people stop exploration? Simple. They stop exploration!

Fee free to correct my syntac

 

[Touch Of Death]

Okay- width, depth, obscurity... Yes you did the universal pattern is placed over a black dot- or a white dot made into a patch that goes on the sleeve or your uniform... or do the stars and stripes obsure your vision?

Man its probably been about fifteen years since I have heard that analogy.
Sean

 

[Bill Lear]

I suppose you could limit the concept to what you see and what you don't see, but then its usefullness wains.
sean

So... like... is there a white noise/black noise focus? Did I miss something here? Did the dots start making noises? Or are you implying something metaphysical here?

artyon:

 

[Bill Lear]

I actually thought it was simpler than all this--"white dot," focus, you only see the center and nothing around that center, "black dot," focus, you don't see the center, and you only see everything around it.

And I consider myself uniquely qualified to say this, because I screwed the whole thing up (got it backwards) while I was teaching a group class, with the Tatums watching, of course. Sweet.

As for the terms being silly, well, no sillier than anything else in the martial arts. Pretty much everything we say about them is some sort of metaphor or tool, anyway...

Then there's the essential silliness of the whole gi-and-belt deal, or of practice, or of all our pretenses...

Is there something wrong with dressing up and playing Hong Kong Phooey? Oh, I know... I forgot my DOTS! Damn!

 

[rmcrobertson]

OK, first off, just because it's goofy doesn't mean it isn't lovable or serious.

Second off, nothing in my description of focus said you couldn't note the universal pattern, blocks and strikes, techniques, their endings, the forms and sets or for that matter Tweety Bird. The two concepts--the two images, in fact--are complementary, not mutually exclusive. I might as well say that in Rainman's last post, he's used the Pattern to forget about the mat. That would be ridiculous, since he wrote nothing about their relation.

Third, explore by all means. But never keep your mind so open that your brains fall out. It's called criticism, critique, discussion, dialogue, whatever---and none of this is helped by taking a word like, "exploration," and waving it around like a gun.

Just explain. Just explain how, say, the Universal Pattern fits in this particular discussion about focus. But I pretty much give up.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So... like... is there a white noise/black noise focus? Did I miss something here? Did the dots start making noises? Or are you implying something metaphysical here?

artyon:

Well, hello. Long time no see.

 

[Rainman]

OK, first off, just because it's goofy doesn't mean it isn't lovable or serious.

Second off, nothing in my description of focus said you couldn't note the universal pattern, blocks and strikes, techniques, their endings, the forms and sets or for that matter Tweety Bird. The two concepts--the two images, in fact--are complementary, not mutually exclusive. I might as well say that in Rainman's last post, he's used the Pattern to forget about the mat. That would be ridiculous, since he wrote nothing about their relation.

Third, explore by all means. But never keep your mind so open that your brains fall out. It's called criticism, critique, discussion, dialogue, whatever---and none of this is helped by taking a word like, "exploration," and waving it around like a gun.

Just explain. Just explain how, say, the Universal Pattern fits in this particular discussion about focus. But I pretty much give up.

Of course I said how black dot focus and the universal pattern are related. Not my fault you don't get it or you have not been taught the connection. I showed the connection, gave you a hint, up to you to do the rest. Try the pulling the trigger on the gun waving around, take the safety off first though.

Never keep your mind so open your brains fall out... Metaphorically speaking right? Back to grade school semantics- tell me, have you ever taught an advanced class? What are you going to tell them... circles are flat and techniques are the heart of the art?

Look these concepts are tools. This is a metaphyiscal dojo for some, a playground for others, a combination of each for others, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. As Sean said- the analogies I am using are quite old. That in and of itself should tell you something. That something would be that the link I gave comes out of the sixties so just think what else has been thought of during the last 40 years...

 

[rmcrobertson]

I find myself incapable of coming up with a useful response to whatever that last post was, so I think I'll just drop it.

 

[True2Kenpo]

Sean,

I think Block Dot Focus is a concept that adds some definition to the idea of having complete awareness of your opponent while maintaining an emphasis on each target you are striking.

Being able to have that awareness of your opponent can help you plan your next actions and what targets to hit with the proper weapon as well. It also places some importance on multiple striking and knowing one solid shot might not be enough.

Just my thoughts... good journey!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh

 

[Touch Of Death]

Sean,

I think Block Dot Focus is a concept that adds some definition to the idea of having complete awareness of your opponent while maintaining an emphasis on each target you are striking.

Being able to have that awareness of your opponent can help you plan your next actions and what targets to hit with the proper weapon as well. It also places some importance on multiple striking and knowing one solid shot might not be enough.

Just my thoughts... good journey!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh

Excellent,
We teach that just as "Position" is your focus for a ground work situation, "Targets" are your focus for a striking situation. It is no accident that position and targets preceed weapon and angle in the "eight" considerations.
Sean

 

[Michael Billings]

Although I know what Kenpoist train, especially in a self-defense or sparring situation, I think there is a place for both in the Art ... especially in the early part of training. The white dot can teach us Kime, or a tightening of our focus. This assists us in teaching students how to hit with our total explosive power at a specific target. It is very, very Japanese or Zennish, IMHO.

I know that is what we trained in Shotokan and Taekwondo (back in the 60's and 70's) and was immediatly tied in with breaking drills. It is one of the things Sigung LaBounty used to teach at camps in the early 80's, that served me in that it taught me to really hit hard ... of course, as my training has progressed, somewhere along the way, I learned to hit much harder while remaining relaxed, and in intermittent, explosive, bursts.

Once again, it is a good beginning and I feel both have their place.

-Michael

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Sean,

I think Block Dot Focus is a concept that adds some definition to the idea of having complete awareness of your opponent while maintaining an emphasis on each target you are striking.

Being able to have that awareness of your opponent can help you plan your next actions and what targets to hit with the proper weapon as well. It also places some importance on multiple striking and knowing one solid shot might not be enough.

Just my thoughts... good journey!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh

The force is strong with this one as well. The white also represents environmental awareness and multiple opponents in any given scenario.
Dark Lord

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

OK, now that the Kenpo community has enlightened me as to the value of Black Dot / White Dot...

Are there yin/yang spots in the Black and White dots? Or, are they pure Black and pure White?

Finally, are there any other colored dots that Mr. Parker may have perceived after the publication of Infinite Insights and revealed to any other seniors before his untimely passing?

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK, now that the Kenpo community has enlightened me as to the value of Black Dot / White Dot...

Are there yin/yang spots in the Black and White dots? Or, are they pure Black and pure White?

Finally, are there any other colored dots that Mr. Parker may have perceived after the publication of Infinite Insights and revealed to any other seniors before his untimely passing?

Actualy if you look reall close you can see the NIN Logo. What colors Black is the absense of color and white would be every color. Perhaps we are all but shades of grey in this practice.
Sean

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Sean:

By NIN, do you mean the music group Nine Inch Nails?

Also, I was daydreaming about work while driving in my car and rear-ended someone. Would you say that this was insufficient Black Dot focus, or was my Black Dot simply too full of all the other stuff I had to do at work that day?