What is advanced Krav Maga?

[skribs]

That “role” is important. Without it, a lot of scenario training turns into “punch and hold”. That’s fine for a first drill on a technique or application, but loses the dynamics. One of the best changes I made was defining what the attacker is allowed to do if the defender fails (or fails to respond). Do they repeat the same action, try again on the other side, or what?

When I'm working with a lower belt in Hapkido, I usually go through at least a few steps in this progression of providing resistance:

1. Walk them through the technique, and kind of do the technique for them (i.e. if my arm is supposed to bend, bend my arm so they see what the next step is supposed to look like)
2. Let them perform the technique with no resistance
3. Let them control the technique, but provide enough resistance that they at least need a little control. If it feels like they are improving, then I just kinda go with it to build confidence
4. Let them control the technique from start to finish. If they don't have control, I give advice on where they lost it, or we reset and try again
5. Let them control the technique, but if there is a point at which they leave me an opening, I take it and counter the technique

• Sparring

Sparring is separate because it's not exactly part of the drill. Basically, I start where I'm helping teach the technique, move into building their confidence that they are learning the technique correctly, and then move into confidence that they can actually apply the technique. If they learned it fast from watching the Master, then I can skip Step 1, and often times I can settle into steps 3 and 4 pretty quick. Sometimes I jump ahead to show them why they need to maintain control, but then settle back until they have the proper technique.

Another thought:
One of our black belts in Taekwondo got yelled at by the Master yesterday for making it too easy for one student. A few minutes later I scolded him for making it too hard on another. The student he was making it difficult for is his mother, who is an orange belt. The technique is a hand grab, that starts by pushing their hand up and away with the web between your thumb and pointer finger, but he was locking his arm so tight she couldn't move.

I explained to him that in a real situation, if someone is locking their arm like that, I'd just go the other way, swing down and inside to get a wrist lock and then hyper-extend the elbow. It's very easy when his arm is locked from pushing one way, for me to switch to the other. But that's not the technique we're currently drilling, and we're not drilling for contingencies. We're preparing for a test, and she needs to demonstrate mastery of that specific skill as part of the test.

"Make them have control, but don't fight them" (basically step 3 or 4 above) is what I try and tell the students. Mostly I have to tell this to newer students in the adult classes, or to kids (who don't learn handgrabs) as they transition into adult classes.

Sorry if none of this is in experience with Krav Maga, but it seemed relevant to the discussion the way this thread has gone.

 

[hoshin1600]

as i read through some of the posts i realized that you guys use the term "scenario" and "role" different then i do.
for me scenario training is based on the word scene. as in acting. set the scene. ready set ACTION!.
one side (the aggressor) has a role to play. the other side is the defender. but these terms aggressor and defender are used very loose.

example:
John will be walking down the street. Joe and Dan will be the aggressors and stop John they will start verbally harassing John and at some point Joe and Dan will (unless you want to add deescalation into the drill) get physical with John.
Goals ; Joe and Dan have the objective to bring John to the ground and remove his wallet (fake wallet for training)
John has the objective of not going to the ground (or getting back up) and getting to a designated safety point without losing said wallet (usually some cones set up at the other end of the room.)
beyond that anything goes. if you designate a technique or a response to something and there is no verbal confrontation, to me thats a drill not a scene.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When I'm working with a lower belt in Hapkido, I usually go through at least a few steps in this progression of providing resistance:

1. Walk them through the technique, and kind of do the technique for them (i.e. if my arm is supposed to bend, bend my arm so they see what the next step is supposed to look like)
2. Let them perform the technique with no resistance
3. Let them control the technique, but provide enough resistance that they at least need a little control. If it feels like they are improving, then I just kinda go with it to build confidence
4. Let them control the technique from start to finish. If they don't have control, I give advice on where they lost it, or we reset and try again
5. Let them control the technique, but if there is a point at which they leave me an opening, I take it and counter the technique

• Sparring

Sparring is separate because it's not exactly part of the drill. Basically, I start where I'm helping teach the technique, move into building their confidence that they are learning the technique correctly, and then move into confidence that they can actually apply the technique. If they learned it fast from watching the Master, then I can skip Step 1, and often times I can settle into steps 3 and 4 pretty quick. Sometimes I jump ahead to show them why they need to maintain control, but then settle back until they have the proper technique.

Another thought:
One of our black belts in Taekwondo got yelled at by the Master yesterday for making it too easy for one student. A few minutes later I scolded him for making it too hard on another. The student he was making it difficult for is his mother, who is an orange belt. The technique is a hand grab, that starts by pushing their hand up and away with the web between your thumb and pointer finger, but he was locking his arm so tight she couldn't move.

I explained to him that in a real situation, if someone is locking their arm like that, I'd just go the other way, swing down and inside to get a wrist lock and then hyper-extend the elbow. It's very easy when his arm is locked from pushing one way, for me to switch to the other. But that's not the technique we're currently drilling, and we're not drilling for contingencies. We're preparing for a test, and she needs to demonstrate mastery of that specific skill as part of the test.

"Make them have control, but don't fight them" (basically step 3 or 4 above) is what I try and tell the students. Mostly I have to tell this to newer students in the adult classes, or to kids (who don't learn handgrabs) as they transition into adult classes.

Sorry if none of this is in experience with Krav Maga, but it seemed relevant to the discussion the way this thread has gone.

Providing the right input for a drill (including which resistance is appropriate and which isn't) is something a lot of students seem to struggle with. I notice it more with strong students, perhaps because their partners can't overpower their resistance to stay on task. To help those folks understand the problem, I usually counter their resistance before correcting them. So I'll do a different technique than the drill to show them that resistance doesn't stop us - it just keeps us from doing the drill.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

as i read through some of the posts i realized that you guys use the term "scenario" and "role" different then i do.
for me scenario training is based on the word scene. as in acting. set the scene. ready set ACTION!.
one side (the aggressor) has a role to play. the other side is the defender. but these terms aggressor and defender are used very loose.

example:
John will be walking down the street. Joe and Dan will be the aggressors and stop John they will start verbally harassing John and at some point Joe and Dan will (unless you want to add deescalation into the drill) get physical with John.
Goals ; Joe and Dan have the objective to bring John to the ground and remove his wallet (fake wallet for training)
John has the objective of not going to the ground (or getting back up) and getting to a designated safety point without losing said wallet (usually some cones set up at the other end of the room.)
beyond that anything goes. if you designate a technique or a response to something and there is no verbal confrontation, to me thats a drill not a scene.

I've always used scenario training more widely. It includes both the way you're using it, and a progression of drills: Joe's job is to hit Dan with a roundhouse. That starts in "drill" territory (Joe feeding Dan a single punch at a time), progresses into looser drills (could be either hand, the range can change, etc.), and moves on to limited scenarios (Joe wants to punch Dan, can select other punches). It's a blurring of the line between "drill" and "scenario" - I overlap the terms a lot.

 

[skribs]

as i read through some of the posts i realized that you guys use the term "scenario" and "role" different then i do.
for me scenario training is based on the word scene. as in acting. set the scene. ready set ACTION!.
one side (the aggressor) has a role to play. the other side is the defender. but these terms aggressor and defender are used very loose.

example:
John will be walking down the street. Joe and Dan will be the aggressors and stop John they will start verbally harassing John and at some point Joe and Dan will (unless you want to add deescalation into the drill) get physical with John.
Goals ; Joe and Dan have the objective to bring John to the ground and remove his wallet (fake wallet for training)
John has the objective of not going to the ground (or getting back up) and getting to a designated safety point without losing said wallet (usually some cones set up at the other end of the room.)
beyond that anything goes. if you designate a technique or a response to something and there is no verbal confrontation, to me thats a drill not a scene.

I guess you're right, and scenario doesn't apply to drilling a specific technique. However, many of our techniques start from "you are defending against a punch" or "you are defending against a cross-arm grab". So in these cases, maybe they're more like scenario drills. (As opposed to simply drilling technique, like repeating footwork over and over or repeating the same punch ten times).

So there's "scenario drills" and "scenario sparring", maybe?

 

[drop bear]

I guess you're right, and scenario doesn't apply to drilling a specific technique. However, many of our techniques start from "you are defending against a punch" or "you are defending against a cross-arm grab". So in these cases, maybe they're more like scenario drills. (As opposed to simply drilling technique, like repeating footwork over and over or repeating the same punch ten times).

So there's "scenario drills" and "scenario sparring", maybe?

Resited and non resisted drills. So sometimes you are feeding a guy a technique and sometimes you are intending that technique to work.

 

[FriedRice]

So my question is this: if Krav Maga is the art that's supposed to be quick and easy to learn to defend yourself with, what is advanced Krav Maga? If a school has belts, what should a brown belt know that a yellow belt doesn't?

Advanced Krav Maga = how Krav gyms pay the bills + make a living. Nothing wrong with this, as the student is really getting in good training. At the higher level or higher belt color, you'll see that they start training more and more like Kickboxers and BJJ = MMA Lite.

Level 1 was when it was meant to get you all excited to join something cool and militaristic. Lots of screaming and yelling and chaos. Higher levels, then you'd see that everyone calms down and trains with Kickboxing/Muay Thai techs, combos, etc. because that's a lot better than going bat-crap crazy and gassing out in a real fight.

 

[Gyuki]

Advanced Krav Maga = how Krav gyms pay the bills + make a living. Nothing wrong with this, as the student is really getting in good training. At the higher level or higher belt color, you'll see that they start training more and more like Kickboxers and BJJ = MMA Lite.

Level 1 was when it was meant to get you all excited to join something cool and militaristic. Lots of screaming and yelling and chaos. Higher levels, then you'd see that everyone calms down and trains with Kickboxing/Muay Thai techs, combos, etc. because that's a lot better than going bat-crap crazy and gassing out in a real fight.

It's sad that this is how a school operates....
There is a well furnished curriculum for KM practitionners of all level. From practitionner level 1 to Graduate Level 5 and Expert... Which none has to do with MMA Lite. And I know lots of schools offer KM this way, it simply is not KM....

 

[drop bear]

It's sad that this is how a school operates....
There is a well furnished curriculum for KM practitionners of all level. From practitionner level 1 to Graduate Level 5 and Expert... Which none has to do with MMA Lite. And I know lots of schools offer KM this way, it simply is not KM....

Yeah. But it should be.

At some point you need to move away from the marketing and commit to developing some depth.

Which kind of means you will be focusing on timing and technical details. Which will involve ore sparring.

Basically you will be doing resisted striking and grappling in some fashion.

And unfortunately MMA gives you the most range to be able to develop that.

 

[Gyuki]

Yeah. But it should be.

At some point you need to move away from the marketing and commit to developing some depth.

Which kind of means you will be focusing on timing and technical details. Which will involve ore sparring.

Basically you will be doing resisted striking and grappling in some fashion.

And unfortunately MMA gives you the most range to be able to develop that.

Absolutely on developping depth. That indeed needs to be achieved trough sparring however sparring in KM is not the same as sparring in sport combat.
By that I mean the "goal", mindset and methods are different and that needs to also reflect in the sparring.
Goal being to simply survive not to overcome or win over the opponent, if one of the 2 is able to get in a good combo/ few strikes and takedown (whichever), that person is to practice appropriately leaving.
Mindset being different in the sense that sparring should occur in a self defense fashion; by that I mean that 1 person is attacking the other who is not in a guard and the second has to defend themselves with uninterruped attacks(as much as possible as nothing is perfect) and disengage once successful (if successful).
Basically, a lot more resets and blitz kind of attack/defense should be seen. Of course the further the reset in case of failure to initially defend is better as it allows people to deal with when things go wrong.

The issue to me is losing the basic principles and methodology of the system as soon as it comes to live sparring/combat. And that is where I see it as a failure of an instructor to understand the system properly...

There is nothing wrong with more competitive/sport training as an exercise in KM however it should be accompanied by serious KM sparring.

And protection equipment does exist to be able to touch the "danger zones" or what has been claimed by some that due to certain techniques it was not possible to spar in that style.
(I simply don't believe any style to be too dangerous to spar, restraint and protection are essential)

But I cannot disagree with sparring in and of itself as way too many KM schools are some where sparring rarely if ever occurs... And to be honest at that point I wouldn't call it KM anymore. More like self defense taibo...

 

[jayoliver00]

It's sad that this is how a school operates....
There is a well furnished curriculum for KM practitionners of all level. From practitionner level 1 to Graduate Level 5 and Expert... Which none has to do with MMA Lite. And I know lots of schools offer KM this way, it simply is not KM....

Not true. It's actually better to go the MMA Lite, route; then maybe later, full MMA.

This is what real Krav Maga looks like:

 

[Gyuki]

Not true. It's actually better to go the MMA Lite, route; then maybe later, full MMA.

This is what real Krav Maga looks like:

Not true. It's actually better to go the MMA Lite, route; then maybe later, full MMA.

This is what real Krav Maga looks like:

This is the perfect exemple of MMA lite I was referring to. As well as both person not being of high level in any ways... I doubt neither knows what they are doing.
Choosing to ignore proper schools and showing poor exemples found online is something relatively easy...

This also exists and it I dont see why one would choose to simply bypass proper exemples... There is more yet i am not here to see who can post the most youtube videos...

If KM is not an art you appreciate nor understand the principle or philosophy I dont really understand why post in this section other then to say you have seen bad exemples and you think it is not good...

I cant disagree with you that there are many out there (too many) who have no clue what they are doing and using the name to attract more people and offer these people grades as they end up paying much and these people pass on the lack of skills they have under the name of Krav Maga. Everyone understands and gets that.

Which is why it is primordial to make a distinction between tai bo KM and actual properly trained KM as the system it is intended to be.

Since this thread relates to advanced level of KM I assumed that the fakers, the wannabes and those who simply use the name as a marketing ploy were not to be spoken of...

Look into Tommy Blom as well as Jean Paul Jauffret whom are also a better exemples then the people you have posted.

Many others on the Youtube have exemples and channels of proper KM and higher levels. There is quality out there. But by keeping on looking for mediocrity it is easy to fall in the trap of thinking it is always poorly done and it simply is not worth time or value.

I am not saying MMA has none or that it is not good or devalue it in any ways. A thing that helps MMA practitionners a lot is that there is a lot of them. That allows for better hours of training and gym availability, as in most places are 5 to 7 days a week with various classes. As well as having most of the people who actually want to train for serious and combative reasons. Those 2 factors alone make MMA worth taking for anyone serious about learning how to fight effectively fast and test it against others.
But,
I am simply saying KM is not the same, isn't trained the same and is not to look the same either in sparring or advanced levels. Look into the FFKDA (bizzarely) KM tournament clip with Itay Gil of a few years ago. As much as I am not into competitions, this may give you a better idea as per how "sparring" may be done in KM and it even has certain rules which are explained in there.

Both have different perspective and when trained with dedication and seriousness it is definitely not something that is what you have shown in the video exemple...

Look into the actual curriculum and see the actual movements. How are those not actual proper combat movements? Those people would have probably looked very similar doing any other art with the amount of training they seemed to have.

 

[jayoliver00]

This is the perfect exemple of MMA lite I was referring to. As well as both person not being of high level in any ways... I doubt neither knows what they are doing.
Choosing to ignore proper schools and showing poor exemples found online is something relatively easy...

This also exists and it I dont see why one would choose to simply bypass proper exemples... There is more yet i am not here to see who can post the most youtube videos...

If KM is not an art you appreciate nor understand the principle or philosophy I dont really understand why post in this section other then to say you have seen bad exemples and you think it is not good...

I cant disagree with you that there are many out there (too many) who have no clue what they are doing and using the name to attract more people and offer these people grades as they end up paying much and these people pass on the lack of skills they have under the name of Krav Maga. Everyone understands and gets that.

Which is why it is primordial to make a distinction between tai bo KM and actual properly trained KM as the system it is intended to be.

Since this thread relates to advanced level of KM I assumed that the fakers, the wannabes and those who simply use the name as a marketing ploy were not to be spoken of...

Look into Tommy Blom as well as Jean Paul Jauffret whom are also a better exemples then the people you have posted.

Many others on the Youtube have exemples and channels of proper KM and higher levels. There is quality out there. But by keeping on looking for mediocrity it is easy to fall in the trap of thinking it is always poorly done and it simply is not worth time or value.

I am not saying MMA has none or that it is not good or devalue it in any ways. A thing that helps MMA practitionners a lot is that there is a lot of them. That allows for better hours of training and gym availability, as in most places are 5 to 7 days a week with various classes. As well as having most of the people who actually want to train for serious and combative reasons. Those 2 factors alone make MMA worth taking for anyone serious about learning how to fight effectively fast and test it against others.
But,
I am simply saying KM is not the same, isn't trained the same and is not to look the same either in sparring or advanced levels. Look into the FFKDA (bizzarely) KM tournament clip with Itay Gil of a few years ago. As much as I am not into competitions, this may give you a better idea as per how "sparring" may be done in KM and it even has certain rules which are explained in there.

Both have different perspective and when trained with dedication and seriousness it is definitely not something that is what you have shown in the video exemple...

Look into the actual curriculum and see the actual movements. How are those not actual proper combat movements? Those people would have probably looked very similar doing any other art with the amount of training they seemed to have.

Your quoting is all jumbled up. Difficult to decipher.

Which video are you referring to, with this comment?

"This is the perfect exemple of MMA lite I was referring to. As well as both person not being of high level in any ways... I doubt neither knows what they are doing.
Choosing to ignore proper schools and showing poor exemples found online is something relatively easy...".

I think you're ignorant of what real Krav Maga is.

 

[Gyuki]

Your quoting is all jumbled up. Difficult to decipher.

Which video are you referring to, with this comment?

"This is the perfect exemple of MMA lite I was referring to. As well as both person not being of high level in any ways... I doubt neither knows what they are doing.
Choosing to ignore proper schools and showing poor exemples found online is something relatively easy...".

I think you're ignorant of what real Krav Maga is.

I was referring to the video you had posted initially as per what was not looking proper.
Have you seen the difference between the one I shared and the one you offered? There is a definite difference in the way of practicing as well as mentality and reasoning.

As per me not knowing what KM looks like, I think there may be confusion in that regards.

I don't know what experience you had with Krav Maga but it sure does not seem like it was a good one.

I have trained with various Krav expert via seminars as well as being a student in a school that was lucky to have a few students that took things quite seriously and trained with a high level of intensity. I definitely have experience in the system and can assess what I see.

What you have posted is simply not Krav Maga, they may say it is as much as they want, it simply is not...

I would like to think you are an intellectually honest person and can take the time to look into the people and things I have mentionned previously (which I choose to not post here as I feel it would be a bit too much for an actual conversation to simply show videos of exemples) a look at their method of training. But simply saying KM is crap or anything is crap because YOU (in the general sense, it could be me or anyone for that matter) personally have not seen or heard of any exemple or people doing it the right way is simply dishonest. It simply means that one hasn't looked at the right place or with the right people.

Hopefully that clarifies and things can get back to the topic of advanced Krav Maga and not to even debate whether KM is an art with value or not...

 

[Gyuki]

Here is an exemple of a school who at advanced level of the curriculum seems to have added more ground work then there is in "original" version. I think it is a great idea as KM does lack a lot of ground game due to their "not staying on the ground" mentality but it does leave one vulnerable to being overtaken and not knowing how to deal with the situation to have no ground game.

I have seen some Bjj schools incorporate a more "self defense" or police force kind of apporach to their training by incorporating holsters and belts as well as the concept of weapon retention or weapon of the ground. I have not seen much of these concepts added in this video but it is of a few years so it is possible that the system of that place has changed. I do not train there nor have met these people...

 

[jayoliver00]

I was referring to the video you had posted initially as per what was not looking proper.
Have you seen the difference between the one I shared and the one you offered? There is a definite difference in the way of practicing as well as mentality and reasoning.

As per me not knowing what KM looks like, I think there may be confusion in that regards.

I don't know what experience you had with Krav Maga but it sure does not seem like it was a good one.

I have trained with various Krav expert via seminars as well as being a student in a school that was lucky to have a few students that took things quite seriously and trained with a high level of intensity. I definitely have experience in the system and can assess what I see.

What you have posted is simply not Krav Maga, they may say it is as much as they want, it simply is not...

I would like to think you are an intellectually honest person and can take the time to look into the people and things I have mentionned previously (which I choose to not post here as I feel it would be a bit too much for an actual conversation to simply show videos of exemples) a look at their method of training. But simply saying KM is crap or anything is crap because YOU (in the general sense, it could be me or anyone for that matter) personally have not seen or heard of any exemple or people doing it the right way is simply dishonest. It simply means that one hasn't looked at the right place or with the right people.

Hopefully that clarifies and things can get back to the topic of advanced Krav Maga and not to even debate whether KM is an art with value or not...

The video I posted, was of Boaz Aviram sparring one of his students.

Do you know who Aviram is? He's only the #3 CHIEF INSTRUCTOR of the original Krav Maga system, developed by Imre Lichtenfeld. Since he's the last one to have trained directly under Lichtenfeld & taken the highest position after #1 & #2 retired; he's probably the most instrumental in the development of Krav Maga to its current form.

The order is, Imre Lichtenfeld, Eli Avikzar, Boaz Aviram.

The video you posted is also Krav Maga, but in the commercial form; like a jingle, which people who don't know much about fighting, would get excited from and sign the 1 year contract to join. The beginning of your video, was just light, MMA sparring with cool music; but still, just MMA Lite. They're even inside an MMA cage.

 

[Gyuki]

The video I posted, was of Boaz Aviram sparring one of his students.

Do you know who Aviram is? He's only the #3 CHIEF INSTRUCTOR of the original Krav Maga system, developed by Imre Lichtenfeld. Since he's the last one to have trained directly under Lichtenfeld & taken the highest position after #1 & #2 retired; he's probably the most instrumental in the development of Krav Maga to its current form.

The order is, Imre Lichtenfeld, Eli Avikzar, Boaz Aviram.

The video you posted is also Krav Maga, but in the commercial form; like a jingle, which people who don't know much about fighting, would get excited from and sign the 1 year contract to join. The beginning of your video, was just light, MMA sparring with cool music; but still, just MMA Lite. They're even inside an MMA cage.

Boaz Aviram is not a reference... His lineage credentials may be there but his teaching methodology is lacking to say the least, not to mention his "unorthodox" ways of combat. Eli Avikzar's method are absolutely not how Boaz passes on his KM. And if we are to get technical in regards to lineage, Eli was not alone as a graduate in Imi's first classes. There are many other whom dispute legitimacy or rights to the unique authentic one and only etc... But that is politicking and of no interest to what is being refered to here as advanced KM...

By people who barely know how to fight you mean Gregory Bouchelaghem this guy Gregory Bouchelaghem | MMA Fighter Page | Tapology ? The host who is greeting before going to visit?
And as per the instructor that is Alain Formaggio. I mean, he explains whom he is and what he does in the video itself. I would doubt they would let a man whom doesn't know how to fight in this position.

Music in 2nd video is not what I focus on when watching any of these altought I do admit it is not my preference when there is some and even less when it is that kind.
Nevertheless, it is a demonstration of curriculum, absolutely not a fight or combat so I am not sure how it equates to MMA lite in such a case... The movements may indeed be similar (if not the same as there is only so many ways one can do a straight punch or a hook) but the method of adressing combat is different, especially at advanced levels. And that seems to be the main question of this thread.

Unfortunately in the clip I have offered for the curriculum they do not show nor adress that, only the physical aspect. It is however adressed in the first one. Especially since Greg has a background in MMA, and has he wishes to explore other arts and serious practionners of all types, they make a specific point of being detailed as per how it is different and how combat is dealt with differently in different circumstances such as sports or unarmed confrontation or armed confrontation not in a sport context. They do practice that way as well and show what and how they do it.

This may guide the understanding of certain differences and how/why they do certain movements. That disengaging and leaving are an important part as well, etc... You may absolutely disagree with said movements or disagree with the reasons they do it or how they do it. The point is, at heart and in it's goal, KM is not MMA lite and differs quite a lot. Those who practice it that way, unfortunately are not practicing KM.

 

[jayoliver00]

Boaz Aviram is not a reference... His lineage credentials may be there but his teaching methodology is lacking to say the least, not to mention his "unorthodox" ways of combat. Eli Avikzar's method are absolutely not how Boaz passes on his KM. And if we are to get technical in regards to lineage, Eli was not alone as a graduate in Imi's first classes. There are many other whom dispute legitimacy or rights to the unique authentic one and only etc... But that is politicking and of no interest to what is being refered to here as advanced KM...

You merely googled all of that and selected what you wanted hear. These are the 2 that trained directly under the Founder. Of course there were others that trained under him, unless you somehow thought I meant he only had 2 students all of that time. The Founder chose to pass the Chief Instructor position to #2, then #3....not to some other guy in his classes; but you don't like it b/c you didn't know who Boaz Aviram was from the video I posted and are now trying to discredit him through your selective Googling.

By people who barely know how to fight you mean Gregory Bouchelaghem this guy Gregory Bouchelaghem | MMA Fighter Page | Tapology ? The host who is greeting before going to visit?
And as per the instructor that is Alain Formaggio. I mean, he explains whom he is and what he does in the video itself. I would doubt they would let a man whom doesn't know how to fight in this position.

You didn't understand what I said then. I'm talking about the people who can't fight that watched that Krav commercial you linked, hint hint.

Music in 2nd video is not what I focus on when watching any of these altought I do admit it is not my preference when there is some and even less when it is that kind.
Nevertheless, it is a demonstration of curriculum, absolutely not a fight or combat so I am not sure how it equates to MMA lite in such a case... The movements may indeed be similar (if not the same as there is only so many ways one can do a straight punch or a hook) but the method of adressing combat is different, especially at advanced levels. And that seems to be the main question of this thread.

Unfortunately in the clip I have offered for the curriculum they do not show nor adress that, only the physical aspect. It is however adressed in the first one. Especially since Greg has a background in MMA, and has he wishes to explore other arts and serious practionners of all types, they make a specific point of being detailed as per how it is different and how combat is dealt with differently in different circumstances such as sports or unarmed confrontation or armed confrontation not in a sport context. They do practice that way as well and show what and how they do it.

This may guide the understanding of certain differences and how/why they do certain movements. That disengaging and leaving are an important part as well, etc... You may absolutely disagree with said movements or disagree with the reasons they do it or how they do it.

What's the highest level of Krav have you trained in from Alliance Federation?

The point is, at heart and in it's goal, KM is not MMA lite and differs quite a lot. Those who practice it that way, unfortunately are not practicing KM.

Well obviously I don't expect them to admit that they're training is MMA Lite, but that's what it is.

 

[Gyuki]

I trained with

You merely googled all of that and selected what you wanted hear. These are the 2 that trained directly under the Founder. Of course there were others that trained under him, unless you somehow thought I meant he only had 2 students all of that time. The Founder chose to pass the Chief Instructor position to #2, then #3....not to some other guy in his classes; but you don't like it b/c you didn't know who Boaz Aviram was from the video I posted and are now trying to discredit him through your selective Googling.



You didn't understand what I said then. I'm talking about the people who can't fight that watched that Krav commercial you linked, hint hint.



What's the highest level of Krav have you trained in from Alliance Federation?



Well obviously I don't expect them to admit that they're training is MMA Lite, but that's what it is.

I trained with IKMF up to P5.
I sure do know all about Boaz without google.

I am not sure which one you are referring to as a publicity. 1 is a over 40 minutes video of Greg visiting a Krav facility. The other one is just the curriculum itself resumed in under 10 minutes.
And the last is Jean Paul Jauffret explaining a certain type of defense and body movement... Did you listen to the videos? With subtitles?

Again, this thread is in regards ro advanced level KM. I doubt publicity of basic movements or simple demo is what anyone is discussing here.

On the other hand you seem to specifically zoom in on Boaz as being the one and only source (which again he is absolutely not, very far from it). So, if your interest is not in KM or you specifically wish to train or focus on other arts, why even be on a discussion concerning something you don't care about?

Or did you wish to explain a few concepts or principles that differentiate KM to MMA? Or reiterate that it all looks like MMA lite and one is better to do XYZ then doing KM...

 

[jayoliver00]

I trained with

I trained with IKMF up to P5.
I sure do know all about Boaz without google.

You didn't even recognize him until I told you. You immediately discredited that sparring footage so it's difficult for me to believe you.

I am not sure which one you are referring to as a publicity. 1 is a over 40 minutes video of Greg visiting a Krav facility. The other one is just the curriculum itself resumed in under 10 minutes.
And the last is Jean Paul Jauffret explaining a certain type of defense and body movement... Did you listen to the videos? With subtitles?

Again, this thread is in regards ro advanced level KM. I doubt publicity of basic movements or simple demo is what anyone is discussing her

On the other hand you seem to specifically zoom in on Boaz as being the one and only source (which again he is absolutely not, very far from it). So, if your interest is not in KM or you specifically wish to train or focus on other arts, why even be on a discussion concerning something you don't care about?

Or did you wish to explain a few concepts or principles that differentiate KM to MMA? Or reiterate that it all looks like MMA lite and one is better to do XYZ then doing KM...

It sounds like your training in Krav is mostly about doing choreographed drills w/o sparring, up to hard sparring with knock down or knock out intentions. That's why you'd think that sparring shouldn't look like the video that I posted, which was actual sparring (light); and not from just anyone, but the #3 Chief Instructor of Krav Maga, under its Founder.

It's true, KM is indeed MMA Lite w/weapons training. I think you even posted a video from a Krav Alliance Federation, which requires a "timed round, nonstop, kickboxing or MMA fight" at full contact/full KO criteria, no stop & go, etc. in order to earn a Black Belt.