What I got from Wing Tsun

[Tony Dismukes]

Boxing has short range concepts that transition into grappling.

Why do wing chun at all?

I mean if you have to do boxing from other ranges. Then do some sort of stand up grappling system in the clinch.

You could pretty much save yourself a system.

This question comes up periodically, so I thought I'd explain my perspective as someone whose primary base is BJJ/Muay Thai/Western Boxing but who has gotten some value from supplemental training in Wing Tsun.

For the record, I am far from an expert in WT/WC. I've got less than two years of Wing Tsun training under my belt, from @yak sao and his students plus a couple of seminars with his instructors. I can spar functionally using pure WT against practitioners of other styles, but am far less effective than when I use my normal personal style. I also can occasionally slip in little moments of WT when I am sparring with my normal structure.

What's made WT useful for me is that it has helped me improve my non-WT arts by making me more aware of certain subtleties of body mechanics. Interestingly enough, I discovered these subtleties mostly while investigating the things that WT does "wrong" from my normal perspective. How can a WT practitioner maintain forward pressure while holding a back-weighted stance? Why would you even try that in the first place? How can a WT practitioner have any kind of effective punching power while not using hip rotation?

As I found the answers to such questions, I realized that I could apply the relevant principles to my normal BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and make my body mechanics even more effective.

Once I learned to recognize the principles in play, I realized that plenty of high-level boxers, etc, do use those same elements. The difference is, I've never seen those details explicitly taught in western boxing. I believe some talented fighters just figure them out unconsciously through years of training and fighting. Since I'm not so talented and have never fought professionally, it helped to have another avenue to figure them out.

 

[Danny T]

This question comes up periodically, so I thought I'd explain my perspective as someone whose primary base is BJJ/Muay Thai/Western Boxing but who has gotten some value from supplemental training in Wing Tsun.

As I found the answers to such questions, I realized that I could apply the relevant principles to my normal BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and make my body mechanics even more effective.

Once I learned to recognize the principles in play, I realized that plenty of high-level boxers, etc, do use those same elements. The difference is, I've never seen those details explicitly taught in western boxing. I believe some talented fighters just figure them out unconsciously through years of training and fighting.

A Very Strong YEP. I agree.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This question comes up periodically, so I thought I'd explain my perspective as someone whose primary base is BJJ/Muay Thai/Western Boxing but who has gotten some value from supplemental training in Wing Tsun.

For the record, I am far from an expert in WT/WC. I've got less than two years of Wing Tsun training under my belt, from @yak sao and his students plus a couple of seminars with his instructors. I can spar functionally using pure WT against practitioners of other styles, but am far less effective than when I use my normal personal style. I also can occasionally slip in little moments of WT when I am sparring with my normal structure.

What's made WT useful for me is that it has helped me improve my non-WT arts by making me more aware of certain subtleties of body mechanics. Interestingly enough, I discovered these subtleties mostly while investigating the things that WT does "wrong" from my normal perspective. How can a WT practitioner maintain forward pressure while holding a back-weighted stance? Why would you even try that in the first place? How can a WT practitioner have any kind of effective punching power while not using hip rotation?

As I found the answers to such questions, I realized that I could apply the relevant principles to my normal BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and make my body mechanics even more effective.

Once I learned to recognize the principles in play, I realized that plenty of high-level boxers, etc, do use those same elements. The difference is, I've never seen those details explicitly taught in western boxing. I believe some talented fighters just figure them out unconsciously through years of training and fighting. Since I'm not so talented and have never fought professionally, it helped to have another avenue to figure them out.

DANG! and I all I got form Wing Chun was a detached retina

OK, I also got Siu lim tao and a better understanding of the internal side of Wing Chun

Tony, if you happen to come across a good Xingyiquan school you might want to give that a try as well. power generation is both, or either, horizontal and vertical

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How can a WT practitioner maintain forward pressure while holding a back-weighted stance? Why would you even try that in the first place? How can a WT practitioner have any kind of effective punching power while not using hip rotation?

I try to look at what WC can give me instead of what WC cannot give me.

What WC can give me is not to let my opponent's arms to punch through my "front door" (not allowing my opponent's arm to punch in between my arms). When I put my right WC Tan Shou in the center of my chest, and touch my left palm on my right elbow joint, I force my opponent to punch through either sides of my arms.

When I trained my long fist system, I didn't have any tool to achieve that. If my opponent cannot punch through my front door (between my arms), he can only use hook punch to punch around. When he uses hook punches, his head will be open for my attack. In other words, my WC Tan Shou can force my opponent's arms to move away from his head.

The WC Tan Shou is the opposite of the boxing guard. You put your hands closer to your opponent's head instead of closer to your own head. It's like to put up your anti-missile system on coast line instead of at Washington DC. This way you can interrupt your opponent's punches farther away from your own head. It's better and much more aggressive fighting strategy IMO.

In the following picture, when his opponent uses hook punch toward his head, his right hand is already close to his opponent's face.

 

[wingchun100]

This question comes up periodically, so I thought I'd explain my perspective as someone whose primary base is BJJ/Muay Thai/Western Boxing but who has gotten some value from supplemental training in Wing Tsun.

For the record, I am far from an expert in WT/WC. I've got less than two years of Wing Tsun training under my belt, from @yak sao and his students plus a couple of seminars with his instructors. I can spar functionally using pure WT against practitioners of other styles, but am far less effective than when I use my normal personal style. I also can occasionally slip in little moments of WT when I am sparring with my normal structure.

What's made WT useful for me is that it has helped me improve my non-WT arts by making me more aware of certain subtleties of body mechanics. Interestingly enough, I discovered these subtleties mostly while investigating the things that WT does "wrong" from my normal perspective. How can a WT practitioner maintain forward pressure while holding a back-weighted stance? Why would you even try that in the first place? How can a WT practitioner have any kind of effective punching power while not using hip rotation?

As I found the answers to such questions, I realized that I could apply the relevant principles to my normal BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and make my body mechanics even more effective.

Once I learned to recognize the principles in play, I realized that plenty of high-level boxers, etc, do use those same elements. The difference is, I've never seen those details explicitly taught in western boxing. I believe some talented fighters just figure them out unconsciously through years of training and fighting. Since I'm not so talented and have never fought professionally, it helped to have another avenue to figure them out.

There is a video online (can't remember if it was shared here before) that shows how certain moves done by pro boxers can be likened to Wing Chun techniques. For example, there is something Mayweather did that looked like the Wing Chun "Lan Sao." Granted, I don't think Mayweather KNOWS it, but the similarity is there just the same.

 

[wingchun100]

Aha, got it! The comparison is made in this video, around the 3:49 mark.

 

[macher]

There is a video online (can't remember if it was shared here before) that shows how certain moves done by pro boxers can be likened to Wing Chun techniques. For example, there is something Mayweather did that looked like the Wing Chun "Lan Sao." Granted, I don't think Mayweather KNOWS it, but the similarity is there just the same.

Maywesther knows what he’s doing in that move but he doesn’t know it’s Lan Sao or similar.

My opinion is WC can be a better compliment to western boxing. In other words if you want to learn WC Boxing it’s better to learn boxing first then learn WC technique. You don’t necessarily have to learn WC traditionally IMO.

 

[wingchun100]

Maywesther knows what he’s doing in that move but he doesn’t know it’s Lan Sao or similar.

My opinion is WC can be a better compliment to western boxing. In other words if you want to learn WC Boxing it’s better to learn boxing first then learn WC technique. You don’t necessarily have to learn WC traditionally IMO.

Yeah, right now I am on the fence as to where I stand on all this. I guess it's because to admit WC is no good as your main style would be to admit I wasted the last 20-some odd years of my life. LOL

 

[Martial D]

Maywesther knows what he’s doing in that move but he doesn’t know it’s Lan Sao or similar.

My opinion is WC can be a better compliment to western boxing. In other words if you want to learn WC Boxing it’s better to learn boxing first then learn WC technique. You don’t necessarily have to learn WC traditionally IMO.

So what Wing Chun lineage have you trained in, and for how many years?

 

[macher]

So what Wing Chun lineage have you trained in, and for how many years?

Never trained in Wing Chun but as the video pointed out not me Mayweather is using a WC technique isn’t he? And I said Mayweather probably most likely doesn’t know it’s a WC technique.

 

[Martial D]

Never trained in Wing Chun but as the video pointed out not me Mayweather is using a WC technique isn’t he? And I said Mayweather probably most likely doesn’t know it’s a WC technique.

Never trained in wing chun, yet you offer an opinion on how it best compliments what.

Interesting.

 

[Martial D]

Yeah, right now I am on the fence as to where I stand on all this. I guess it's because to admit WC is no good as your main style would be to admit I wasted the last 20-some odd years of my life. LOL

I'm in the same boat, been at it since the mid 90s. I don't feel it's been wasted time though, in fact I think it offers a distinct advantage if you have it and the other guy doesn't.

It's the traditional training methods that suck, not the toolset, imo.