What hit the Pentagon?

[psi_radar]

An interesting piece of multimedia concerning the 9/11 strike on the Pentagon. Sorry if this is a re-post.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main

Hypothetical: So, if what hit the pentagon was not a 757, what was it and what happened to the plane that went missing?

 

[someguy]

Why would it not being a 747 matter?
It happend. Things blew up. I don't see why I shouldn't belive them.

 

[psi_radar]

Why would it not being a 747 matter?
It happend. Things blew up. I don't see why I shouldn't belive them.

IF this were true...it wasn't a 757, then there's the mystery of where the missing 757 went, and what actually hit the Pentagon. If a missile or a commuter plane hit the pentagon instead, then why wouldn't we be told the truth? And why can't we see the suppressed video tape?

This is all just hypothetical of course. I thought the images and evidence as presented were compelling, but not bullet-proof evidence. If we could see the suppressed video tape, then most likely the evidence would be definitive one way or another.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hmmm, I have not read the article in detail. Yet, I find this idea difficult to believe. Why? Because there were people who worked in that building that posted on sites like this or on Escrima Digest, just a few days afterwards, that talked about the clean up.

Some people are always looking for conspiracies. :idunno:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Axly, it was Bigfoot. He fell out of his flying saucer.

 

[MA-Caver]

Well you can blame it on conspiracy theorist if you want. The photographic evidence and lack of it is far too compelling.
Think about it. The attack on the WTC was enough to galvanize the American People to go to war. Like Pearl Harbor and the Maine.

If you want to believe the (government controlled) media then okay... all I got to say is ... BAA

Meanwhile I'll sit here and keep saying Woof! Until the real truth is known. You'll know it when you feel it.

 

[someguy]

Oops 757 is what I meant.
Mainly I see no reason to disbelive the offical story.
Bah I'm a sheep but at least my wool coat keeps me warm at night.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Axly, advanced societies like ours constantly produce this sort of urban legend.

It helps cover up the real scandals, which are always hidden in plain sight.

Repressive desublimation, anyone?

 

[someguy]

Repressive desublimation
Ah run away. It's another one of those word thingies.

Hmmm Strange the way mine an macavers posts happend. I didn't read your post as I posted but both dealt with being a sheep.

 

[Mark Weiser]

Well it is people like me that carry sheep shears. "NEXT!"

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well you can blame it on conspiracy theorist if you want. The photographic evidence and lack of it is far too compelling.
Think about it. The attack on the WTC was enough to galvanize the American People to go to war. Like Pearl Harbor and the Maine.

If you want to believe the (government controlled) media then okay... all I got to say is ... BAA

Meanwhile I'll sit here and keep saying Woof! Until the real truth is known. You'll know it when you feel it.

MACaver,

Lack of evidence. Ok show airplane parts from the WTC? I Believe those images form the camra's were planted, to cover up the fact that there was a well place explosive in the buildings. Heck I saw David Copperfield make the Staue of Liberty disappear on TV. Could not a airplane be made to look like it hit a building?

As to galvanize America. I disagree. I would have liked to have seen more evidence before war was declared in Aghanastan or in Iraq. I guess I am just an impurity in that steel that was formed from the fires of the WTC. :idunno:

As to the truth, have you talked to anyone who worked in the building? So you have other sites that show this lack of evidence? The Pentagon was designed to take bomb hits, as the visable head of the military, versus the Trade Towers which were designed to move in the air so as to not to fall down. Totally different design requirement, and physics involved. The WTC had some much more potential engery then the Pentagon ever thought of having. Hence the numerous attempts to attack it. Not just as a symbol, but also for the destruction it would cause.

Just my thoughts though, and until you can present me with this said truth, I will continue to believen the people I talked to or e-mailed that were in the building when it was hit, and involved with the clean up. As I was not there, I have to weigh, who am I going to believe. People days after the event still in shock or years later people talking about it on the internet.

My apologies if I have upset you or yoru beliefs, I never said you were wrong, only what I believed, or thought based upon what evidence and information I have.

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Duplicate post do to system lag. My apologies

 

[PeachMonkey]

I would have liked to have seen more evidence before war was declared in Aghanastan or in Iraq.

Myself, I would have liked to have simply seen war declared in either of those circumstances.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Myself, I would have liked to have simply seen war declared in either of those circumstances.

PeachMonkey,

I agree that Congress did not declare war. Yet with the Presidential acts that allow the same functionality to occur as war, and the veterans get combat pay and such, it is technicality I also would have liked to seen. It is there for a purpose. It is a Legislation Check on the Executive branch. Yet, I guess we do not need it any longer.
:idunno:

 

[TwistofFat]

Sept. 11, 2001 was one of the saddest day in US history. On 8:10AM, ET, AA flight 77 departed Washington's Dulles airport for Los Angeles with 58 passengers, 4 flight attendants, and 2 pilots. 5 Al Quatta hijackers aboard took over the plane and changed its course back to Washington. On 9:41AM, ET, the hijacked plane crashed into Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia. The incident took life of more than 200 innocent people.​

List of Pilots, Crew, Passengers and Hijackers crashed into PentagonFlight 77:Washington to LAX :
AMERICAN AIRLINES BOEING 757Pilots:
Charles Burlingame, 51, Va.
David Charlebois, Washington, D.C.
Crew:
Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md.
Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Va.
Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Va.
Renee May, 39, Baltimore, Md.
Passengers:
Paul Ambrose, 32, physician
Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif., director of medical affairs, IPC
MJ Booth
Bernard Brown, 11, student, Leckie Elementary School, Washington
Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif., Cisco Systems Inc.
William E. Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md., physicist, U.S. Navy
Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md., sixth-grade teacher, Backus Middle School, Washington
Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va.
Asia Cottom, 11, student, Backus Middle School, Washington
James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md., fifth-grade teacher, Ketcham Elementary School, Washington
Rodney Dickens, 11, student, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington)
Eddie Dillard
Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va., vice president for software development, EM Solutions Inc.
Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev., teacher, Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas
Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md., research director, ECOlogic Corp.
Dana Falkenberg, 3, University Park, Md.
Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md.
James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C., educational outreach director, National Geographic
Darlene Dee Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.
Wilson Bud Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va., retired Navy Admiral and pilot, American Airlines
Richard P. Gabriel Sr., 54, Great Falls, Va., managing partner, Stratin Consulting
Ian Gray, 55, Washington, D.C., healthcare consulting firm president
Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif.
Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va., senior executive, Defense Department
Steven D. Jake Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va., chief operating officer, Metrocall Inc.
Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va., travel officer manager, National Geographic Society
Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co.
Yvonne Kennedy

List of Victims at Pentagon:​

US Army:
Lt. Col. Canfield Boone
Sgt. First Class Jose Calderon, Puerto Rico
Lt. Col. Jerry Dickerson, MS
Maj. Wallace Cole Hogan Jr., FL
Lt. Col. Stephen Neil Hyland Jr., CA
Sgt. Maj. Lacey Ivory, MO
Lt. Col. Dennis Johnson, WI
Maj. Steve Long, GA
Lt. Col. Dean Mattson, CA
Lt. Gen. Timothy Maude, 53, Fort Meyer, VA
Maj. Ron Milam, OK
Spc. Chin Sun Pak, OK
Capt. Clifford Patterson, Alexandria, VA
William Ruth, Maryland
Lt. Col. Dave Scales, Cleveland, OH
Sgt. Maj. Larry Strickland, Washington, D.C.
Maj. Kip Taylor, MI
Sgt. Tamara Thurmond, AA
Lt. Col. Karen Wagner, TX
Staff Sgt. Maudlyn White, Virgin Islands
Maj. Dwayne Williams, AL
US Army Civilian Employees:
Samantha Allen, Hillside, MD
Craig Amundson, 28, KS
Melissa Rose Barnes, 27, Redlands, CA
Retired Master Sgt. Max Beilke, Laurel, MD
Carrie Blagburn, Temple Hills, MD
Angelene Carter, Forestville, MD
Sharon Carver, MD
John Chada, Manassas, VA
Ada Davis, Camp Springs, MD
Amelia Fields, Dumfries, VA
Cortz Ghee, Reisterstown, MD
Brenda Gibson, Falls Church, VA
Ron Golinski, Columbia, MD
Carolyn Halmon, Washington, D.C.
Sheila Hein, University Park, MD
Jimmie Holley, Lanham, MD
Peggie Hurt, Crewe, VA
Brenda Kegler, Washington, D.C.
David Laychak, Manassas, VA
Teresa Martin, Stafford, VA
Ada Mason, Springfield, VA
Robert Maxwell, Manassas, VA
Molly McKenzie, Dale City, VA
Diane Hale McKinzy, Alexandria, VA
Odessa Morris, Upper Marlboro, MD
Ted Moy, Silver Spring, MD
Diana Padro, Woodbridge, VA
Debbie Ramsaur, Annandale, VA
Rhonda Rasmussen, Woodbridge, VA
Martha Reszke, Stafford, VA
Cecelia Richard, Fort Washington, MD
Edward Rowenhorst, Fredricksburg, VA
Judy Rowlett, Woodbridge, VA
Robert Russell, Oxen Hill, MD
Marjorie Salamone, Springfield, VA
Janice Scott, Springfield, VA
Michael Selves, Fairfax, VA
Marion Serva, Stafford, VA
Don Simmons, Dumfries, VA
Cheryle Sincock, Dale City, VA
Retired Lt. Col. Gary Smith, Alexandria, VA
Pat Statz, Tacoma Park, MD
Edna Stephens, Washington, D.C.
Sandra Taylor, Alexandria, VA
Willie Troy, MD
Meta Waller, Alexandria, VA
Sandra White, Dumfries, VA
Lisa Young, Germantown, MD US Navy:
Kris Romeo Bishundat, 23, Waldorf, MD
Christopher Lee Burford, 23, Hubert, N.C.
Daniel Martin Caballero, 21, Houston, TX
Lt. Eric Allen Cranford, 32, Drexel, N.C.
Captain Gerald Francis Deconto, 44, Sandwich, MA
Johnnie Doctor Jr., 32, Jacksonville, FL
Commander Robert Edward Dolan, 43, Florham Park, NJ
Commander William Howard Donovan Jr., 37, Nunda, NY
Commander Patrick Dunn, 39, Fords, NJ
Edward Thomas Earhart, 26, Salt Lick, KY
Lt. Commander Robert Randolph Elseth, 37, NY
Jamie Lynn Fallon, 23, Woodbridge, VA
Matthew Michael Flocco, 21, Newark, DE
Captain Lawrence Daniel Getzfred, 57, Elgin, NE
Ronald John Hemenway, 37, Shawnee, KS
Lt. Michael Scott Lamana, 31, Baton Rouge, LA
Nehamon Lyons IV, 30, Mobile, AL
Brian Anthony Moss, 34, Sperry, OK
Lt. Commander Patrick Jude Murphy, 38, IL
Michael Allen Noeth, 30, Jackson Heights, NY
Lt. Jonas Martin Panik, 26, Mingoville, PA
Lt. J.G. Darin Howard Pontell, 26, Columbia, MD
Joseph John Pycior Jr., 39, Carlstadt, NJ
Marsha Dianah Ratchford, 34, Prichard, AL
Commander Robert Allan Schlegel, 38, Gray, ME
Commander Dan Frederic Shanower, 40, IL
Gregg Harold Smallwood, 44, Overland Park, KS
Lt. Commander Otis Vincent Tolbert, 38, CA
Lt. Commander Ronald James Vauk, 37, ID
Lt. Commander David Lucian Williams, 32, OR
Kevin Wayne Yokum, 27, Lake Charles, LA
Donald McArthur Young, 41, Roanoke, VA
US Navy Civilian Employee:
Angela Houtz, 27, La Plata, MD
Brady Howell, 26, Arlington, VA
Judith Jones, 53, Woodbridge, VA
James Lynch, Manassas, VA
Retired Capt. Jack Punches, 51, Clifton, VA
US Navy contractors:
Julian Cooper, 39, Springdale, MD
Jerry Moran, 39, Upper Marlboro, MD
Khang Nguyen, Fairfax, VA
Marvin Woods, 58, Great Mills, MD
Others:
Donna Bowen, Verizon Communications
Allen Boyle, Fredericksburg, VA
Rosa Maria Rosemary Chapa, Springfield, VA
Gerald Fisher, consultant, Booz-Allen Inc.
Sandra N. Foster, Clinton, MD
Herbert Homer, Milford, MA
Robert J. Hymel, Woodbridge, VA
Terrance Lynch, consultant, Booz-Allen Inc.
Shelley A. Marshall, Marbury, MD
Patricia E. (Patti) Mickley, Springfield, VA
Scott Powell, BTG Inc.
Charles E. Sabin, Burke, VA
Karl W. Teepe, Centreville, VA
Ernest Willcher,consultant, Booz-Allen Inc.
Edmond Young, BTG Inc.


Passengers: (continues)Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va., nonprofit organization manager,
Karen A. Kincaid, 40, lawyer, Wiley Rein & Fielding in Washington
Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va., engineer, Boeing Co.
Dora Menchaca, 45, Santa Monica, Calif.,
Christopher Newton, 38, Ashburn, Va., executive, Work Life Benefits
Barbara Olson, 45, TV commentator and lawyer
Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co.
Robert Penniger, 63, Poway, Calif., electrical engineer, BAE Systems
Robert R. Ploger III, 59, Annandale, Va., software architect, Lockheed Martin Corp.
Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va., senior vice president, Genzyme Corp.
Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Md., tax and business lawyer
John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va., technical manager, XonTech Inc.
Yang Shuyin, 61, Beijing, China
Diane Simmons
George Simmons
Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif., women's gymnastics coach, UC Santa Barbara
Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y., diamond industry salesman
Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va.
Hilda Taylor, sixth grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School, Washington
Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va., technical group manager, XonTech Inc.
Sandra Teague, 31, physical therapist, Georgetown University Hospital
Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Md., professor, Georgetown University
John Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md.
Vicki Yancey, 44, Springfield, Va.,
Zheng Yuguang, 65, Beijing, China
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[MA-Caver]

MACaver,
My apologies if I have upset you or yoru beliefs, I never said you were wrong, only what I believed, or thought based upon what evidence and information I have.
:asian:

Not at all Rich, isn't that what these discussion boards are all about??
I was of course speaking from my own personal observations and conclusions. A jet that large has to make a hellva lot more damage traveling at that much speed. Granted the Pentagon was/is made of largely concrete... thus enough to stop a plane in it's tracks no?
The WTC... steel and glass, and we all saw how the plane simply just plowed right into the buildings with almost no resistance (til they hit the center support columns).
I too have a friend who works (as a civilian) in the Pentagon.. he says that he is very surprised at the lack of damage done to the building and the lawn. Fortunately he was at the Capitol building running an errand when the whatever it was hit.

I'm of the opinion that we must constantly question the authority which provides us with information... since they largely engage in dis-information on the basis of "National Security."

Your two bits, my two bits... may not be the same bits but hey... it's discussion not argument.

Peace :asian:

 

[psi_radar]

I don't doubt flight 77 crashed (or was shot down) with all on board, or that the Pentagon was hit by something, but I remember watching the footage on 9/11 and noting how little wreckage was visible.

For me, this is like a challenged play in the NFL--there could have been something different than what was called, but the right camera angle wasn't there. So I won't overturn the first official ruling. I would be interested in hearing first-person accounts of the rescue workers there and whether or not they recovered larger pieces of the plane and/or remains of any of the passengers.

As for conspiracy theories, I don't think there's any harm in questioning the "official line" of any story. Sure, there are more sinister things afoot. Just read 1984, particularly the section where Wilson gets to read the book explaining the methodologies of his oppressive government. There are some seriously scary parallels there. Or for something even more concrete, read the report The Project for the New American Century, of which Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz were key architects.

Over time, as truths are revealed, conspiracy theories can gain a lot wider acceptance, maybe because we can gain emotional distance from the subject to be objective. For example, it's pretty much accepted these days that JFK wasn't killed by just one gunman. 30 years ago, not too many would make that claim.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Actually, I was thinking--capitalism, patriarchy, colonialism, poverty, as being more important than the Grassy Knoll guys.

 

[psi_radar]

Actually, I was thinking--capitalism, patriarchy, colonialism, poverty, as being more important than the Grassy Knoll guys.

The other examples I presented--the perennial war/empire construct in 1984, and the PFNAC--directly address most of those issues, if in more specific terms. I mentioned JFK because it's an example we all know and can reference; I don't think I assessed a heirarchy of importance to any of this. If you want to do that, then yes you're right, those items you mentioned are more important, more of the big picture.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Granted the Pentagon was/is made of largely concrete... thus enough to stop a plane in it's tracks no?

Yes, it was designed to stop big things from getting in easy.

The WTC... steel and glass, and we all saw how the plane simply just plowed right into the buildings with almost no resistance (til they hit the center support columns).

Actually, it was fire from the jet fuel that super heated the metal structures, combined with the damage done to the structure upon impact. Hence the weight of upper floors caused the building to collapse as if there were explosives in a demoliotion of a building. The building collapsed.

Arguement is the presentation of two sides, and discussing them, and or presenting counter points.

Peace
:asian: