What Else Is There?

Kaygee said:
Because the politics are leaving me behind while others progress. It has become more about money than skill. It has become more about favoritism than technique. The entire vision that I had of a martial art, is all but a fool's errand at this point. I cannot find a school that doesn't care more about money than it does their students. I cannot find a school where the instructor really, genuinely cares about the progression of their students, not only in the art they are teaching, but in life as well.

Apparently, I have been reading many articles lately that this epidemic seems to be country-wide.

I think the main problem here is, I just set my expectations too high when I started this......I thought it was something that it was not and now I don't know how to fill the hole in my life that it is creating because I put so much into it.
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So "politics" means you're not allowed to test/promote in the school that you left (and therefore, haven't been training in)?
Generally speaking "more about money than skill" is used to gripe about schools that allow promotions to people who don't train and don't have skills. But in your case, it means NOT allowing you to test? I'm confused.
Go train, if that's what you want. Or go tie some flies. Or weave a basket.
 
seasoned said:
IMHO, martial arts is a life time passion, that at most times, needs our full attention. Sure you can and should have fun with it, but, if at any time it starts to become work, the rewards begin to diminish.
Step back, reevaluate your commitment, and return, only, with the enthusiasm you had when you first set foot in the dojo.
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I stand by my earlier post, only with a slight twist. At a time of your choice, go back and train. Let all the trash alone and train for you and if the techniques and system are worth it, the promotions will come.
Down the road when you get some time under your belt, take what you have learned and go out and be the instructor to your students, that you could not find.

Follow the dream.............
 
Dirty Dog said:
So "politics" means you're not allowed to test/promote in the school that you left (and therefore, haven't been training in)?
Generally speaking "more about money than skill" is used to gripe about schools that allow promotions to people who don't train and don't have skills. But in your case, it means NOT allowing you to test? I'm confused.
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The best all around skilled black belt (in my brother and my humble opinion anyway) was not permitted to test for his 2nd dan because he didn't attend my school's "summer camp" this past summer. The reason why is that he went on vacation with his family. When he first inquired, they informed him that if they gave them the money for the summer camp that he did not provide because he did not attend, they would test him. They do the same thing to students and tournaments.

And the students that get to 1st gup and cannot even perform something as simple as a center chop block (I SWEAR ON MY DAUGHTER) are promoted because they pay the money when asked.
 
kempodisciple said:
Quick search on dojolocator brings up this http://www.dojolocator.com/Pennsylvania/Philadelphia/
Obviously I have no way to vouch for any of the schools, and they may all be crap, but just showing there's a bit more variety then you seem to think, if you know how to look for it.
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I know what it looks like, but a lot of those school are really, really far from me. They may look close on that map, but I am not about driving 45 minutes or so every night after work one way to go to a school. Maybe after my kids are older and my job allows me to leave earlier, but not now.

But yes, I did research, or visited nearly all of the schools from the results of the dojo locator search engine and unfortunately, there's a lot of the same thing out there. I used dojo locator as my prime research tool.

EDIT: And A LOT of those schools on that map are closed. You'd be surprised how many of them no longer exist.
 
Kaygee said:
Because the politics are leaving me behind while others progress.
Is this about progressing rank or in knowledge and skill?


It has become more about money than skill. It has become more about favoritism than technique.
Click to expand...
The schools want you to pay to train and to test for rank? Others are getting more attention than you?

The entire vision that I had of a martial art, is all but a fool's errand at this point. I cannot find a school that doesn't care more about money than it does their students. I cannot find a school where the instructor really, genuinely cares about the progression of their students, not only in the art they are teaching, but in life as well.

Apparently, I have been reading many articles lately that this epidemic seems to be country-wide.

I think the main problem here is, I just set my expectations too high when I started this......I thought it was something that it was not and now I don't know how to fill the hole in my life that it is creating because I put so much into it.
Click to expand...

The Martial Art schools are many things and not all are the same nor are the people who attend them. All have different expectations, desires, needs.
What were you expecting and why. What is your short term and long term goals for training in the martial arts?
Click to expand...
 
Danny T said:
The schools want you to pay to train and to test for rank? Others are getting more attention than you?
Click to expand...
Yes and yes! And it is not that others are getting more "attention" than I, it just seems that some get a "free pass" and others do not.


Danny T said:
The Martial Art schools are many things and not all are the same nor are the people who attend them. All have different expectations, desires, needs.
What were you expecting and why. What is your short term and long term goals for training in the martial arts?
Click to expand...
I don't know how to answer this. I typed about 16 different explanations and the erased them because none of them seem to come out right on a forum, so unfortunately, I do not have the ability to explain it.
 
Let me try to put this into perspective for you. This is a review from, what I can only believe, was one of our many former students. I have taken out any names that associate the students, instructors or schools and put them in brackets with generic descriptions, to protect them. Again, these are not my words at all, they are from one of the websites where you can "add your review" to the school. And I can tell by the way the person talks about the school, they went there for a while.

[This school] sucks. [Head instructor] is scatter brain, [Junior instructor] is an ego maniac, that is quick to ridicule and insult you, yet doesn't participate in class and can't so a simple jumping kick without complaining about his knee or back and bowing out of the exercise. They have a [person] who is a partner that contributes NOTHING, NOTHING to the school, and makes his decisions solely on saving money and has no interest in promoting the school or expanding its membership. You don't hit targets, EVER, you fight kids in an unrealistic point sparring environment, you do random things like knife defense and weapons training, then do don't them for months and forget everything you've learned. The schedule is the most limited in the area, so its easy to miss time. I'd go a whole week working late only two times, and it happened to be Monday and Thursday, and I didn't train that whole week, while I sat there Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday doing forms in my living room wishing I could go to class. They insist upon breaking fingers and hurting students holding boards, when the technology exists to protect us and I offered to DONATE that technology several times, and they just refused. They have time requirements as mentioned, and fully expect you to volunteer entire weekends once you are blackbelt to tournaments and events, and if you don't, you won't rank. The best black belt there didn't rank, because he is a [profanity use] kid that goes to school and didn't go to enough tournaments on the weekend and spend the ENTIRE day babysitting, meanwhile other black belts got 2nd dan. So it seems, technique takes a back seat, and likability and how much you support the school by paying for tournaments etc gets attention. It's just terrible all around. In my humble opinion
 
I left for similar reasons and I found that the reality is that if there are people involved there are politics. Some of what you describe is not politics but underhanded business practice. They are different things IMO. I looked for places that had no contracts, no child care like services hiding behind the mask of a martial arts class, and I researched the crap out of the teacher, their art, thier organization, and thier personal lineage. I found that the popularity (ability to make money) of Korean arts has made it easy for the not so great to thrive. I looked for less popular arts and have not had to sift through nearly as many schools before I was satisfied with a find. Really think about what you want out of an art and research what is out there. As far as what else to do, anything that keeps you fit. If you go back fat and lazy like I did things are twice as hard as when your first started. Maybe try boxing, boxing is fun and the asmosphere is very different and will keep you fit. ~Rob
 
You can't find a good dojo in a major city like Philly? There has got to be some type of traditional karate school or BJJ school near Philly. If you really want to train then pick a school and drive 45 min twice a week or once a week or once every two weeks and do more at home. Its better then nothing. I drive an hour and half each way from my house to train twice a week because I like it its worth it to me. What's your zip I'm sure we can find a good school for you to look at. A lot of dojos are not listed on that dojolocator website. There are many people here representing may organizations that may know of a small dojo affiliated with there organizations that can help you.
BUT.......
Sounds more like you want our permission for you to quit. If you don't like training or dont want to then don't do it why do you need to ask our opinions? Its nothing to be ashamed of some folks like is some love it and some don't.
 
Sorry you are having such a hard time with your martial training.
No matter what school you attend or don't attend this is true in all aspects of life.
First:
Quit worring about other's rank & skills. You are there to develop & train 'Your' skills. Fair or not; life is not fair & Rank in the martial arts has little to do with martial skill.

Second:
Stop comparing yourself to others. Compare yourself to you. You are there to develop you and become a better you not someone else!

Third:
It will cost you. Money, time, mental and physical effort, and yourself (you will become a different person if you stay)

Fouth:
Have a goal in your training and work to attain the goal. You should have a short term goal and a long term goal. Short term goals will come and go and you have several short term goals. Ie. Getting stronger, more flexiblility, better at your forms or certain techniques. Long term should be where you want to be in your martial journey 5 years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years and so on.

Without a goal you are but wandering in the mist with no direction.
What is important is the journey; the destination is but the direction to go toward. I hope I will never reach the destination and simply continue the journey.
 
Danny T said:
Sorry you are having such a hard time with your martial training.
No matter what school you attend or don't attend this is true in all aspects of life.
First:
Quit worring about other's rank & skills. You are there to develop & train 'Your' skills. Fair or not; life is not fair & Rank in the martial arts has little to do with martial skill.

Second:
Stop comparing yourself to others. Compare yourself to you. You are there to develop you and become a better you not someone else!

Third:
It will cost you. Money, time, mental and physical effort, and yourself (you will become a different person if you stay)

Fouth:
Have a goal in your training and work to attain the goal. You should have a short term goal and a long term goal. Short term goals will come and go and you have several short term goals. Ie. Getting stronger, more flexiblility, better at your forms or certain techniques. Long term should be where you want to be in your martial journey 5 years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years and so on.

Without a goal you are but wandering in the mist with no direction.
What is important is the journey; the destination is but the direction to go toward. I hope I will never reach the destination and simply continue the journey.
Click to expand...

I really thank you for this post. It was one of the best responses that I have ever received.
I hear (err, actually read) what you are saying, but if I am going to pride myself on being a great martial-artist, but the actual goal that I set for myself is nothing but a watered down bench mark that, in reality, is actually just a dollar amount goal for the school, then I fear that it is far too difficult to keep that as a goal for myself.

If that makes any sense.
 
Kaygee said:
Sorry, but I don't want, nor need anyone's permission to quit. I'm a big boy! ;)
Click to expand...
Then why do you keep posting on here, asking if you should? Not meaning to be offensive or anything, personally I like you, but you seem to be very stubborn about this, refusing to give up on a school you hate, and just constantly complaining that you hate it/want to quit. I'm honestly not sure what advice we can give you that wouldn't be an echo of all our past forums.
As for the new advice that may be old advice I just dont remember, and almost definite an echo of others sentiments, who says you have to go every day?

Personally I think its better to go 2-3 times a week and train on your own the other days to let the lessons seep in without being overwhelmed. As for dojolocator, you can enter your exact address, and there is probably some sort of MA school within a 15-30 minute drive of either your house or your work. (I checked by your school and youre right there isnt much within 10 miles of the school outside of karate/mma/tkd/tsd, but you still have your house and your work area to look from.)

If you cant find one on dojolocator, ask coworkers, friends, acquaintances, even people you would never think do MA. They may go to a school, or know a friend who does, that just doesn't advertise very well (there are a LOT of those). Just because you can't find something online, don't give up looking. But if you don't want to look, then don't, just don't complain there are no schools near you, cause I can almost guarantee there are, even if its just one high ranking belt giving some friends private lessons.

Who cares how the other students are doing, or if they are ranking unfairly. you should be HAPPY you're not one of those, especially considering how much you proclaim you dont like mcdojos. By not playing their game, you're earning your belts through hard work, not money, be happy!

Finally, to be perfectly honest, if the school was as bad as that review suggests it wouldn't be in business and would be in at least one lawsuit over the whole not using safe technology and breaking fingers thing. Due to that (Which I'm considering an extreme exaggeration/manipulation of events/outright lie), I'm going to make the assumption that the rest of the review is biased as well, and not an accurate description of the dojo. Here is *youre* review of the school that I found through the web:
I went around this area from school to school and could not find a school that would teach a traditional martial art, teach discipline, promote a "team" environment and actually make you work for your black belt, instead of handing it to you!....Master (name) and Master (name) are brilliant masters and I am proud to be their student!
Click to expand...
(took out the middle of it to make it a bit more private while conveying the tone of the review),which suggests you had the exact opposite attitude over the summer. are you sure the school is what changed so much, and not just your interest in MA?

EDIT: just so everyone knows, I put the above quote in all the different arrangements I could think, and sent it in on google before I posted this, and not once did i find his review, which is why I felt it wasn't inappropriate to post it here.
 
Kaygee, you have the same problem everyone here has...trying to find an acceptable balance between training and personal life/family/work. It's something you're going to have to struggle through and find yourself. Personally, I had to limit myself to one class a week for 6 years, and it was a two hour round trip. You do what you have to do.
 
if I am going to pride myself onbeing a great martial-artist
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Pride yourself on being a great martial artist?How do you define great and pride?

Great; very subjective term;

  2. Of an amount above the normal or average. (compared to whom?)
  3. A distinguished person (successful, authoritative and/or commanding. Showing dignity in manner or appearance)
  4. Excellent (Outstanding, very good)

You can be a great martial artist simply bybeing distinguished in your mannerisms toward others, your training, in yourattitude.

Pride: (be careful for what you wish for)

  2. A feeling of pleasure from one’s achievements
  3. Proud of a particular quality or skill
  4. to be arrogant, haughty, vane, conceited.
[h=3]
but the actual goalthat I set for myself is nothing but a watered down bench mark that, inreality, is actually just a dollar amount goal for the school, then I fear thatit is far too difficult to keep that as a goal for myself.
Click to expand...
[/h][h=3]Then set another goal and whenpossible move on. Until that is possible make the best of what is available.Life is not always easy nor simple. Sometimes no matter how hard you work or how much you give of yourself it just does not go the way you want. Welcome to reality. What will make the greatest difference is your day to day attitude in your journey.[/h]
 
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