What does Modern Arnis need?

[Tgace]

I asked the question on DocB's thread and agree with Dan A that it probably needs its own thread. As a spin off of the "what have you done to contribute..." thread,I want to ask the question.....

To the people who are leading the art, what do you think Modern Arnis "needs". Does it need more exposure, does it need standardization, does it need centralized control (hows that for a hot topic?). If you folks are going to "contribute", what do you think the direction should be?

 

[James Patrick]

I think that the best thing people could do to "contribute to the art" would be to use the art to help others.

James

 

[DrBarber]

I think that the best thing people could do to "contribute to the art" would be to use the art to help others.

James

Please give us an example or two for clarity and to aid in a discussion. I can't disagree with the concept, but the idea definately needs some fleshing out.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[James Patrick]

Please give us an example or two for clarity and to aid in a discussion. I can't disagree with the concept, but the idea definately needs some fleshing out.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Well, you know….helping others….. fulfilling the ethical needs of others through ethical means.

First off, I would say that martial arts schools simply teaching life saving information would be a good start on the road to helping others. This seems so basic, yet so many "martial arts" schools focus on a lot of things that have nothing to do with actually fighting or self-defense. There is no sense of urgency from the instructor to teach life-saving information because the instructor is often occupied with other things. Things such as paying bills, keeping the student coming back (related to paying bills), fulfilling some sort of psychological need by being the god of his own training club, or teaching the "art." The list goes on. Yet, when a student attends a martial arts school, whether it be Modern Arnis or whatever, the expectation is generally that they will learn solid self-defense skills first and foremost. This is the main "ethical need" that they need to fulfill. They could do palates or aerobics for health, a sport for coordination, join a religion or philosophy group for self-improvement, and so on. So, why choose a martial art? The only logical choice is to learn self-defense first and foremost; even if there are other ethical needs to be fulfilled as well. Yet, there seems to be a dichotomy between the needs of the student attending a martial arts class, and the needs and focus of the instructor. This dichotomy is a disservice to the unsuspecting student who is usually investing a lot and expecting to learn self-defense.

This is the common trend in martial schools in general. I haven’t seen all the Modern Arnis programs in the world, but based off reading threads here, I see Modern Arnis to be no different then any other art as it pertains to this subject.

So, what can we do to contribute to "Modern Arnis," or any other art? The best thing we could do is remove all the B.S., and find the most effective and efficient way to transfer lifesaving self-defense information to new students who are expecting to at least learn that much. This is the best way that we can help others through our art, and by helping others we are helping "the art" flourish.

Now, there are other ways to help others with our art. Charity fund raisers, kids programs, promoting the health benefits of the art, etc. These are all great things as well, but we mustn’t forget that these can be realized outside of the martial arts world. So, our first goal needs to be teaching life-saving information on self-defense. If one does just that much, then one is doing more for "the art" then they will ever know.

That’s just my take. You asked, so I gave you the long answer. I personally like my short answer better…

Yours,

James Patrick

 

[Dan Anderson]

To the people who are leading the art, what do you think Modern Arnis "needs". Does it need more exposure, does it need standardization, does it need centralized control (hows that for a hot topic?). If you folks are going to "contribute", what do you think the direction should be?

Most of all, civil communication between the members. Dr. Randi Shea of IMAF is a great example of this. Some sort of agreement regarding standards would be good. That won't happen, though, because of the differing of opinions of what is important in the art and what isn't (I am as bad as anyone on this point). Public discussions are fine. Even public disagreements are fine but dissention in the ranks or yapping about "what Remy really said or meant" is counter productive. Materials being more and more available to the public, especially those which apply to martial artists in other arts woule be good as well.

That would be a good start.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

I think what we need is more publicity, more press coverage in the martial arts magazines, more training materials as Mr. Anderson suggests, more seminars--keep it growing so it doesn't die out with those who knew the Professor personally.

 

[Tgace]

The "those who knew professor personally" point. Just a discussion point....what is the progression when the founder dies? There will be a point when there will be nobody who knew the professor left. Does the "proximity factor" then shift to the "direct students" and so on down the line?

 

[arnisador]

Well, my point is that I fear enthusiasm for the art may dwindle as those who were inspired by the Prof. himself age and die off. Are we doing enough to spread the art to the next generation of enthusiasts? I hope that when there is no one left who knew the Prof. personally that there were stil be enthusiastic practitioners of his art. That's happened for so many other arts--I want to be sure it happens for ours too!

As to the proximity factor, I suppose it's common in many arts (and other arenas, including academia) to speak of 1st generation students, 2nd generation students (i.e., students of students), and so on. But, it's not clear to me that it's such a useful distinction.

 

[Dan Anderson]

The "those who knew professor personally" point. Just a discussion point....1.what is the progression when the founder dies? There will be a point when there will be nobody who knew the professor left. 2. Does the "proximity factor" then shift to the "direct students" and so on down the line?

1. You can either look at it as then the branches take over now that the trunk has died or you can look at it like a grenade once it has been exploded.

2. One would think so.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[DrBarber]

Well, you know….helping others….. fulfilling the ethical needs of others through ethical means.

First off, I would say that martial arts schools simply teaching life saving information would be a good start on the road to helping others. This seems so basic, yet so many "martial arts" schools focus on a lot of things that have nothing to do with actually fighting or self-defense. There is no sense of urgency from the instructor to teach life-saving information because the instructor is often occupied with other things. Things such as paying bills, keeping the student coming back (related to paying bills), fulfilling some sort of psychological need by being the god of his own training club, or teaching the "art." The list goes on. Yet, when a student attends a martial arts school, whether it be Modern Arnis or whatever, the expectation is generally that they will learn solid self-defense skills first and foremost. This is the main "ethical need" that they need to fulfill. They could do palates or aerobics for health, a sport for coordination, join a religion or philosophy group for self-improvement, and so on. So, why choose a martial art? The only logical choice is to learn self-defense first and foremost; even if there are other ethical needs to be fulfilled as well. Yet, there seems to be a dichotomy between the needs of the student attending a martial arts class, and the needs and focus of the instructor. This dichotomy is a disservice to the unsuspecting student who is usually investing a lot and expecting to learn self-defense.

This is the common trend in martial schools in general. I haven’t seen all the Modern Arnis programs in the world, but based off reading threads here, I see Modern Arnis to be no different then any other art as it pertains to this subject.

So, what can we do to contribute to "Modern Arnis," or any other art? The best thing we could do is remove all the B.S., and find the most effective and efficient way to transfer lifesaving self-defense information to new students who are expecting to at least learn that much. This is the best way that we can help others through our art, and by helping others we are helping "the art" flourish.

Now, there are other ways to help others with our art. Charity fund raisers, kids programs, promoting the health benefits of the art, etc. These are all great things as well, but we mustn’t forget that these can be realized outside of the martial arts world. So, our first goal needs to be teaching life-saving information on self-defense. If one does just that much, then one is doing more for "the art" then they will ever know.

That’s just my take. You asked, so I gave you the long answer. I personally like my short answer better…

Yours,

James Patrick

I'm going to leave the "ethics" contention alone; there are aa number of other concurrent issues that go along with it. All of them are beyond this thread and could be quite lengthy in terms of a discussion.

Speaking strictly for myself, I believe that mobility, footwork and bodyshifting need to be added to the training of most Modern Arnis practicitioners. If there is a single constant that I have found in my years of working within the art, it is that most most people talk about and recognize the concept of mobility however they do not actually use it in their training and instruction. Most Modern Arnis people are actually very immobile. They rely very heavily on their hands, hand speed and stick blocking skills.

In my experiences in dealing with numerous instructors, most have failed to establish a definative foundational pattern of triangulation movements as described and shown by the late Professor Presas in his books and videos. Without that foundation in place, most instructors can not and will not be able to establish the extra stepping or evasion patterns which will supplement the trianulation patterns. Talking about stepping is not enough, one actually must do it and teach it. It really does not matter if one uses 5, 7, 9, 10, 12 or 16 angles of attack, they all are neutralized by a failure to move well. Blocking skills are very important, however they are merely complimentry to movement and can never replace mobility skills.

My escrima/arnis program contains six (6) basic methods of footwork and bodyshifting. My instructional methodology is based on the assumption that arnis a bladed art. Blocks alone are not sufficent to counter and control a blade attack. Mobility is paramount and adds power to your blocks and counters. From my perspective, the primary striking tool in arnis, depending on the region and system, is the bolo, machete, barong or kris. I use the Negrito Bolo as a supplement to all of my stick instruction. The Negrito Bolo is the hidden or dominate shadow instrument and the stick is the primary training substitute item used for instruction, particularly for beginners. The Negrito Bolo was chosen because it is primary tool of the indiginous people of the Island of Negros. That is the island of Professor's birth and it is where he first began studying the art of Arnis under the tutilege of his grandfather, Leon Presas. In addition, Professor used the Negrito Bolo in his video, showing Stick Anyo Apat. I isolated and copied the blade from that video and have used wooden replicas of it since 1987 in my instructional format at Erie Community College.

If other instructors choose to use a different blade type or only use the baston, I have no arguement with them. Each person has to teach from his or her own confort level. And since Professor stressed the stick in his instructional format in the USA, there are those who would not want to use a blade orientation. One the other hand the blade orientation does force one to use good, practical and effective footwork.

Respectfully,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

This is an simple yet hard task.

The simple part is people working together for a common goal.

The hard part is people checking thier egos at the door.

:asian:

 

[Tgace]

Whats the goal?

 

[Guro Harold]

Whats the goal?

IMHO:
Simply, to continue to spread the Professor's knowledge and love of the art of Modern Arnis.

 

[Dan Anderson]

IMHO:
Simply, to continue to spread the Professor's knowledge and love of the art of Modern Arnis.

Sounds fine by me.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

IMHO:
Simply, to continue to spread the Professor's knowledge and love of the art of Modern Arnis.

This gets my vote.

 

[Tgace]

Unfortunately we all know that its really not that simple to implement dont we? Nothing ever is when humans are involved with each other.

 

[Guro Harold]

Unfortunately we all know that its really not that simple to implement dont we? Nothing ever is when humans are involved with each other.

That's the beauty of it. It can be as simple or as complex as a person chooses.

If you want to get involved in politics and concern yourself with what others are doing it can be complicated.

But if you are just talking about the Professor, his art and swinging sticks, its easy!

 

[Tgace]

But just look at the **** storm that can erupt around the issue of who is REALLY teaching The Professors Art and who isnt..for starters.

 

[Guro Harold]

There is always room for a difference of opinion.

Its really not my business if someone in another group teaches 12 stikes, 24, or one really big strike!!!

It concerns me that we talk more about things than people sharing about what they have learned from GM Presas, what new information or insight that they bring to tons of material in Modern Arnis, what has worked for them, what has been a challenge, and what are some of the viable self-defense aspects of the art.

We can discuss skill-sets, the flow, Modern Arnis carenza, hidden techniques, the progression of skill from white belt to black.

There's too much positive material to cover than to be burdened with the politics.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I guess the real question is do you want to be part or the problem or the solution? Do you post on MT to help people and share information or to cause problems and screw with people?

:asian: