What do you think about scott Adkins upward side kick?

[dvcochran]

Show me someone who does if it's part an parcel of that evolution you were referring

0:44

World champion Suska... Straight line..

This video makes my point. He has time to set and prepared for every kick into a padded TARGET. He does not have to worry about 50 other 'what ifs' that may come at him if he had an adversary. The target is not moving and poses him no danger. This take much if not all of the dynamic out of the equation.
Simply put, you are thinking too narrowly and in a very limited idea of what is 'correct'. I think you are looking at the kick from a forms/kata/poomsae perspective. Not explicitly wrong but not at all complete martial art training if that is the only way you think the kick is done or used.
Too much video training I think. You need to get into a dojang and kick but more importantly get kicked at.

 

[Acronym]

We all get that this is a different variation of a side kick. But is it something new and unique? .

Yes it is, and I offered a challenge to anyone who can post a TKD demonstration of a mid section upward side kick.

Of course they can't, but they sure take credit for the kick nonetheless.

 

[dvcochran]

Yes it is, and I offered a challenge to anyone who can post a TKD demonstration of a mid section upward side kick.

Of course they can't, but they sure take credit for the kick nonetheless.

I can guarantee if you spend as much time watching WT sparring videos as you have for the video on this thread you will see it used often. @Dirty Dog said it well, it is just a natural evolution of Consistent training. I get it may be confusing for a lower belt to watch it on video.
And we are back to you needing live training.

 

[Acronym]

I can guarantee if you spend as much time watching WT sparring videos as you have for the video on this thread you will see it used often. @Dirty Dog said it well, it is just a natural evolution of Consistent training. I get it may be confusing for a lower belt to watch it on video.
And we are back to you needing live training.

This is all immaterial anyway. The discussion was supposed to be what the pros and cons are of a curved lead side kick. So let's get back on track.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Adkins for those who don't know is from an ITF-style background (TAGB) but these days mixes things from other systems

I have never seen a side kick taught this way but he sure gets a lot of power on the holder.Why isn't this version ever taught in TKD at least as an alternative?

Could it be that it's not a practical method for average people? Does it require more raw strength?

I don't train TKD. I train Jow Ga Kung Fu and this would be the proper way to do the side kick. From a body mechanics point of view this is also healthier for hip. You can do this type of side kick all the the time and not have the same type of injuries. You rarely hear Kung fu practitioners complain about hip injuries and that's because we do kicks in a way that work naturally with the body mechanics.

The upward part of the kick isn't that important. The important part is how the leg is chambered and how the hip is turned over. Take a look at the position of the hip when he starts the kick.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes it is, and I offered a challenge to anyone who can post a TKD demonstration of a mid section upward side kick.

Of course they can't, but they sure take credit for the kick nonetheless.

Nobody needs to “take credit” for it. It’s not unusual.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is all immaterial anyway. The discussion was supposed to be what the pros and cons are of a curved lead side kick. So let's get back on track.

Really?

 

[dvcochran]

This is all immaterial anyway. The discussion was supposed to be what the pros and cons are of a curved lead side kick. So let's get back on track.

Disagree. Watch some sparring videos and you will see the pros and cons of the kick. Given you know what to look for.

 

[Ivan]

Adkins for those who don't know is from an ITF-style background (TAGB) but these days mixes things from other systems

I have never seen a side kick taught this way but he sure gets a lot of power on the holder.Why isn't this version ever taught in TKD at least as an alternative?

Could it be that it's not a practical method for average people? Does it require more raw strength?

I've watched this video before, and I think I may have even posted about it (but I could be wrong). I agree with the fact that it's a much faster, and maybe more powerful method. Regardless, I prefer to use the traditional approach because it allows for more accuracy. I believe that accuracy is preferable to speed, power and at times, even technique. You could punch someone with very little power, speed and poor technique, but if you hit the right spot, such as an injury, the liver, the throat or solar plexus, they will still be out of commission.

Nevertheless, it takes much more practice and skill to use the traditional method, in the heat of the moment. The bladed sidekick in karate was specifically meant to target the lymph nodes in that armpit by baiting a forward punch. This is a great spot to focus on, and it's also targeted in fencing. But it's much easier to take advantage of the speed and power in Atkin's method, than the accuracy in the traditional method. You don't get to slow down time when your opponent throws a punch in order for you to accurately exploit his weak spots.

In conclusion, the way I see it, Atkin's method emphasises speed and power and is much more easy to use. However, the traditional method (though harder to use) makes it easier to exploit an opponents weak spot as it's easier to execute the proper technique while maintaining balance and accuracy. The choice there is to make is what you choose to focus on and what's best for your fighting style. At least, that's the way I see it. Please take this with a grain of salt, it's my opinion and there are others here with much more experience with me who may disagree with what I have to say.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I prefer to use the traditional approach because it allows for more accuracy.

It's just a tool. As a practitioner I wouldn't get into the mindset of this one. If you are trying to hammer a nail then you take a small hammer. If you are trying to bust up a brick wall then you take a sledge hammer. In other words, if you were trying to bruise or break ribs with your kick then you would want to kick this way. If you want to keep from having hip problems from kicking later on in life then you would kick this way.

In general, high kicks above chest level are more risky which is why you'll see a number of martial arts use kicks that don't travel too far above the the chest. If you are looking for an effective side kick then you want to go with the sledge hammer. If you can break or bruise ribs then you'll be able to critically affect your opponents breathing. If your opponent breathing is restricted then everything else become easier for you to win the fight.

As far as accuracy. If the purpose of sledge hammer is to hit large targets then, it's 100% accurate. If the type of side kick is uses to break ribs, then the target is large enough hit with good accuracy. In terms of actual fighting you should use whatever technique allows you to take advantage of an opening. My guess is that ribs are often more open than the lymph nodes under someone's arm.

Just something to think about in terms of actual fighting.

In terms of training and the techniques that you like. Do what you want. In terms of fighting people rarely get what they want and often have to take what is available.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Got any WT footage of that variant being drilled? I have been in the TKD world for 6 years and it's first I've seen it.

So you're basically a newbie still. There's going to be a ton of stuff you haven't seen.

 

[Bruce7]

Adkins for those who don't know is from an ITF-style background (TAGB) but these days mixes things from other systems

I have never seen a side kick taught this way but he sure gets a lot of power on the holder.Why isn't this version ever taught in TKD at least as an alternative?

Could it be that it's not a practical method for average people? Does it require more raw strength?

The reason most TKD do not teach it is because that is a long fist back kick.

 

[Earl Weiss]

This is all immaterial anyway. The discussion was supposed to be what the pros and cons are of a curved lead side kick. So let's get back on track.

Pro - Quicker than high chamber. Great for sparring where goal is point scoring.
Con - Body positioning not great for defense or hand technique follow up. Also kicks from the ground are easier to leg check, and and lack of high chamber makes multiple kicking without setting foot down more difficult. Does not have the Chang Hon Piercing rotation to cause internal Hemorrhage. To max energy transfer you want the line of force perpendicular to the target especially on hard vs soft targets.

 

[Acronym]

So you're basically a newbie still. There's going to be a ton of stuff you haven't seen.

And I'm not dogmatic when it comes to mixing techniques. A side back kick curved yeop chagi seems a bit over cooked to me, though.

 

[punisher73]

I watched the video a couple of times and to me, he is throwing two different kicks. He is throwing a side kick and then when showing his version is showing a back kick.

When he takes that rear crossover step, look at how he is changing the position of his hips.

But, going back to the chambering idea, it is the same for a rear thrust kick of chambering the knee up (the infamous 4 part kick) and then kicking. His method is quicker on the rear kick.

Mechanically, I am not seeing how you can do his method on a side kick.

 

[Acronym]

I watched the video a couple of times and to me, he is throwing two different kicks. He is throwing a side kick and then when showing his version is showing a back kick.

When he takes that rear crossover step, look at how he is changing the position of his hips.

But, going back to the chambering idea, it is the same for a rear thrust kick of chambering the knee up (the infamous 4 part kick) and then kicking. His method is quicker on the rear kick.

Mechanically, I am not seeing how you can do his method on a side kick.

 

[Acronym]

He isn't turned away enough with his shoulders for it to be a back kick IMO

 

[Acronym]

Is it really healthy for the knee to kick upward rather than forward?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Mechanically, I am not seeing how you can do his method on a side kick.

I'm able to do side kicks the way he has shown and I can do them without the cross step. For me the difference in side vs back kicks based on how much I turn my hips over. The back kick requires a lot more "look over your shoulder" than the side kick.

The back kick will have the toe pointing downwards.

Is it really healthy for the knee to kick upward rather than forward?

When he's talking about upward he's probably taking about how he's driving the power. Where the power is being driven like a mule kick and not a jab.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He isn't turned away enough with his shoulders for it to be a back kick IMO