What do you think about Kajukenbo?

[masherdong]

So KJKB does not have the market on "realistic" self defense.

I am sorry, but I must beg to differ. I have seen a lot of the techniques and have seen some people use it in a "realistic" situation. One of my classmates and I were approached by some guys who wanted to start some trouble because of the color shirt he had on. Sure, we tried to talk our way out but they pushed us from behind and luckily for us, that is where a good portion of our techniques came from. We have Judo rolls 1-22. So, it was like if we were in the dojo, but this was for real.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I am sorry, but I must beg to differ. I have seen a lot of the techniques and have seen some people use it in a "realistic" situation. One of my classmates and I were approached by some guys who wanted to start some trouble because of the color shirt he had on. Sure, we tried to talk our way out but they pushed us from behind and luckily for us, that is where a good portion of our techniques came from. We have Judo rolls 1-22. So, it was like if we were in the dojo, but this was for real.

In MTKD's defense, he was trying to say KJKB is not the only realistic form of self defense out there.
Sean

 

[47MartialMan]

from past readings and discussions it is interesting though there isnt a school for it locally.

 

[MichiganTKD]

One of the problems I have with KJKB: If it is a system designed strictly for self defense, why even have uniforms and ranks? If all you care about is self defense, rank is not important and uniforms are not necessary. What is the point of having, say, a 7th Dan in a style that is strictly for self defense? Or wearing a karate gi for that matter?

 

[masherdong]

In MTKD's defense, he was trying to say KJKB is not the only realistic form of self defense out there.

Ah, ok. Misinterpreted the post. Sorry!

 

[The Kai]

One of the problems I have with KJKB: If it is a system designed strictly for self defense, why even have uniforms and ranks? If all you care about is self defense, rank is not important and uniforms are not necessary. What is the point of having, say, a 7th Dan in a style that is strictly for self defense? Or wearing a karate gi for that matter?

KaJuKenBo, similiar to all Kenpo branch, view Self defense to be the study of martial arts. Artistic elemenents, character devolpment or historical preservation are all secondary elements.

 

[MJS]

One of the problems I have with KJKB: If it is a system designed strictly for self defense, why even have uniforms and ranks? If all you care about is self defense, rank is not important and uniforms are not necessary. What is the point of having, say, a 7th Dan in a style that is strictly for self defense? Or wearing a karate gi for that matter?

How is it any less of an art just because that is the main focus? All arts are unique in their own way, shape and form. Pretty much everywhere you look, you'll find that the majority of arts all have some sort of ranking system, be it a belt, sash, or a level designating rank.

Sure their focus is on SD, but whats to say that they don't spar? There are still kata. Now the way the sparring is done may be quite different from TKD lets say, but again, it does not make it any less of an art.

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

One of the problems I have with KJKB: If it is a system designed strictly for self defense, why even have uniforms and ranks? If all you care about is self defense, rank is not important and uniforms are not necessary. What is the point of having, say, a 7th Dan in a style that is strictly for self defense? Or wearing a karate gi for that matter?

That is a good point

 

[TaiChiTJ]

I had a real interesting Kajukenbo experience. About a year ago I met a couple at a chinese martial art demonstration. They were new in town. They were looking to start up a Kajukenbo school. I didn't ask them too many questions about it because I thought I knew what Kajukenbo was.

I've got to stop assuming things! :uhyeah:

They did open a place up so I went to watch a class.
They teach an official version of Kajukenbo called NorthernTum Pai. It is a Kajukenbo version with Tai Chi Chuan as a kind of basis for everything they do!
I had no idea this existed within the Kajukenbo organization.

 

[47MartialMan]

I had always known there were four branches of it:

Kajukenbo Kenpo, Chuan Fa (which is the correct term for CMA-not Kung fu), Wun Hop Kuuen Do and Tum Pai.

I am somewhat of a martial art history/scholar nut. Upon my first interpretation of this thread, I thought it was about Jukendo...

Sometimes my dyslexia gets the best of me.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

It says alot about Grand Master Emperado. He foresaw the inevitable future development of the art and guided it in appropriate directions, all while maintaining the core teachings.

Awesome.

 

[47MartialMan]

I guess the ranking issue is for setting their standards...

 

[MichiganTKD]

How is it any less of an art just because that is the main focus? All arts are unique in their own way, shape and form. Pretty much everywhere you look, you'll find that the majority of arts all have some sort of ranking system, be it a belt, sash, or a level designating rank.

Sure their focus is on SD, but whats to say that they don't spar? There are still kata. Now the way the sparring is done may be quite different from TKD lets say, but again, it does not make it any less of an art.

Mike

But that is my point. Arts like Tae Kwon Do, Karate-do, Aikido etc. were designed as an overall program of physical, mental, and spiritual improvement. As such, each aspect of the art (forms, sparring, self defense etc.) were just that-aspects. Sparring or whatever is not the total package. And because these arts are grounded in tradition, either from the native country or imported by its influences, things like uniform, behavior, etiquette, and manners are spelled out. Remember, these are Ways of Life in how to better yourself.
KJKB is primarily for self defense, and has been for Day One. Either you or someone else said it yourself. Tradition, etiquette, manners, uniform etc. mean nothing. I also have a problem with that BTW. But if all you care about is self defense, if culture, etiquette, and tradition mean nothing, then you don't need rank or uniforms because all you are teaching is self defense techniques. Why do you think Jeet Kune Do doesn't use uniforms?
My opinion? KJKB is not appropriate for young children because they need something with more substance.

 

[MJS]

But that is my point. Arts like Tae Kwon Do, Karate-do, Aikido etc. were designed as an overall program of physical, mental, and spiritual improvement. As such, each aspect of the art (forms, sparring, self defense etc.) were just that-aspects. Sparring or whatever is not the total package. And because these arts are grounded in tradition, either from the native country or imported by its influences, things like uniform, behavior, etiquette, and manners are spelled out. Remember, these are Ways of Life in how to better yourself.
KJKB is primarily for self defense, and has been for Day One. Either you or someone else said it yourself. Tradition, etiquette, manners, uniform etc. mean nothing. I also have a problem with that BTW. But if all you care about is self defense, if culture, etiquette, and tradition mean nothing, then you don't need rank or uniforms because all you are teaching is self defense techniques. Why do you think Jeet Kune Do doesn't use uniforms?
My opinion? KJKB is not appropriate for young children because they need something with more substance.

I've seen many people, myself included, have one sided views of TKD. i've asked questions, and at times have received answers and at times I have not. I've had people say, don't judge it until you've tried it, don't judge all TKD just from a few things that you've seen. Well, this is exactly what is happening here. Now, I may be wrong, but have you looked really in depth at Kajukenbo? If you have, then I can see reason for your reply. If you have not, then this discussion is no different than the TKD discussions that have been on this forum.

One thing to keep in mind here, is that all arts have a focus. There will always be a strong focus on one main thing, and then touch on others. Look at BJJ. Its strong point is the ground obviously, but they also touch on punching and kicking. Not as much as the ground, but it is there. TKDs main focus is kicking, is it not? You really don't see much punching during sparring, but supposedly those hand strikes are there, are they not?

As for it not being suited for kids...who was talking about that? I believe the question asked was, "What do you think about Kajukenbo?" not, "What do you think about Kajukenbo for kids?" That is one of the reasons I always tell people when they're looking to join a school, to research it first, ask questions, watch classes, take a trial class, etc., so that nothing will be a surprise.

Mike

 

[MJS]

As for it not being suited for kids...who was talking about that? I believe the question asked was, "What do you think about Kajukenbo?" not, "What do you think about Kajukenbo for kids?" That is one of the reasons I always tell people when they're looking to join a school, to research it first, ask questions, watch classes, take a trial class, etc., so that nothing will be a surprise.

Mike

Sorry about that. Upon re-reading the first post, he did make an inquiry about his son. However, I would still think that elements of respect, discipline, etc., are incorporated into the classes.

Mike

 

[Touch Of Death]

But that is my point. Arts like Tae Kwon Do, Karate-do, Aikido etc. were designed as an overall program of physical, mental, and spiritual improvement. As such, each aspect of the art (forms, sparring, self defense etc.) were just that-aspects. Sparring or whatever is not the total package. And because these arts are grounded in tradition, either from the native country or imported by its influences, things like uniform, behavior, etiquette, and manners are spelled out. Remember, these are Ways of Life in how to better yourself.
KJKB is primarily for self defense, and has been for Day One. Either you or someone else said it yourself. Tradition, etiquette, manners, uniform etc. mean nothing. I also have a problem with that BTW. But if all you care about is self defense, if culture, etiquette, and tradition mean nothing, then you don't need rank or uniforms because all you are teaching is self defense techniques. Why do you think Jeet Kune Do doesn't use uniforms?
My opinion? KJKB is not appropriate for young children because they need something with more substance.

Thank you for your answer, you bring up some valid concerns. I think it is safe to say you believe TKD offers something that A system like Kenpo or KJKB does not. Perhaps you are right; we all choose different spiritual paths, and for you to truely believe in yours, it would only stand to reason you feel bad for "us". Anywhoo, the Flaw in your thinking is that KJKB should try to adhere to a Bruce Lee belief or custom. Bruce probably means about as much to them as he does to you; so, they will judge skill levels and award grade levels as usual. They get their spiritual fix by going to church and helping others learn to acheive their goals.
Sean

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Looking to get into martial arts for my son and myself.I want to take something that is very diverse.I understand what works in actual street fights and am looking for a style that incorperates striking but also doesnt forget the importance of grappling.Something that is a complete art.What martial art exists that is actually practical for street fighting/defense.Which teaches all aspects together?There are many Kajukenbo schools in my area.What are your impressions of Kajukenbo?

Sounds like you're looking for an art such as Kajukenbo...

I hope Mr. Bishop weighs in on this (the self-improvement and "art" issues MichiganTKD brings up) - as I am not a practioner of that art. However I have been impressed with what little I've seen from the art. I had to take boxing and Judo classes to supplement my Karate training because it was demonstrably incomplete as I was initially taught it. However, Kajukenbo, by definition, covers both grappling and infighting as well as traditional Karate style techniques. Sounds good to me. Would have saved me a lot of time and money to have gotten mixed training from the same location.

 

[The Kai]

Actually, I agree TKD so a perfect art to teach kids. Can't hurt each other with it and they expend thier energy!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Actually, I agree TKD so a perfect art to teach kids. Can't hurt each other with it and they expend thier energy!

HAHA HA HA! :flame:
Sean

 

[KajuMom]

KJKB is primarily for self defense, and has been for Day One. Either you or someone else said it yourself. Tradition, etiquette, manners, uniform etc. mean nothing.

Atlhough I don't have as much experience as other kajukenboists, for example Mr. Bishop, I would disagree with your claim that tradition, etiquette, manners and uniform mean nothing in kajukenbo. Simply because the art was originally developed for self defense does not mean that other aspects of the martial arts (such as those that you list here) are not part of many school's curriculum today.

Although kaju tradition may not have as long a history as other arts, at our dojo, we are expected to begin class with a traditional prayer and salute. With respect to etiquette and manners, we are required to shake hands with every person in the dojo every time we come to class. We are required to introduce ourselves to anyone we have not met. Our uniforms must be clean and worn in a specific way.

We are drilled on respect, self control, integrity, in addition to our physical training. We must keep a notebook of all our techniques that is reviewed upon testing for BB. Your blanket statement, above, does not take into account the different styles and different schools that all teach kajukenbo.

I've only been training for three years but in that time I have not only improved physically but mentally as well.

KJKB is not appropriate for young children because they need something with more substance.

I came to train in kajukenbo, with absolutely no martial arts experience ever, after my son had been taking children's classes for a year. My son's instructor instills in the younger students self confidence, teaches them how to interact respectfully with others, rewards them for good report cards brought in from school, implements consequences (taking belt away, writing "Student Creed #1" 50 times) for bad behavior. You cannot expect young children to perform the curriculum with the intensity that the adults do. Children's classes should be well rounded and I believe this is the case at the school where my son and I train. Our main instructor is not only a naturally gifted teacher, but someone who sets an example for every student every day with his skill, his great attitude, and his integrity.

You don't say what you mean by "substance," but I wouldn't have my 9-year old son training anywhere else.