What Considered "legitimate"

[Aegis]

Originally posted by Aegis
Why should it insult you? If you only have a blue belt in TKD, why would you expect to be announced as anything but a blue belt? I've studied Judo and Jujutsu for a combined total of over 10 years, but I would expect to be announced as a brown in Jujutsu (I'm a brown in judo and a green in jujutsu), as I haven't taken the appropriate gradings in jujutsu to allow me to be announced as a brown. Hell, I wouldn't even expect another jujutsu orginisation to recognise my grade. It doesn't bother me: if I have to start over I will, and with any luck I'll be able to fast-track through the grades, as I will be looking for a style similar to my own if I can't find a branch of my current style near wherever I end up....

Should be "but I would NOT expect to be announced as a brown in Jujutsu"

If a mod sees this, could they edit my last post and delete this one?

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
Lets put this in another perspective. Every art out htere today started with someone doing something a little different than someone else. A student breaks from his instructor or the instructor dies and the student carries on the teaching adding to them in time.
I dont care what art you study it started with someone who did his/her own thing . So if we go by that logic NO ONE IS LEGIT if we listen to some arguments.
Now do I consider some people phoney YES
Do I consider some who have started there own art legit YES
Peter Urban
Ed Parker
Nick Cerio
Kali Griffin
Professor Emperado
these and many more,
Think about it

You are so right!:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

For TKD, the authority is Kukkiwon. Have a rank somewhere else, and it's pretty much considered garbage by 99% of the schools out there.

You don't need to belong to an organization to receive a Kukkiwon-issued rank, there's no problem. Kukkiwon is more WTF, yes, but ITF and many ATA and KTA members get their rank from Kukkiwon. Kukkiwon sets the standards for testing, while the branch organizations and/or the instructor can add requirements or raise the bar or do whatever he wants as long as it does not contradict the set requirements by Kukkiwon. Of course, people lower the bar to give 8 year olds a 3rd dan black belt and such and Kukkiwon will never hear of it 9000 miles away, but by they probably won't progress that much more since high ranks are looked upon with closer scrutiny, and the certificates get more and more complex.

 

[A.R.K.]

The only time an orginisation should "recognise" a rank is if it's in the style covered by that orginisation AND if they have tested the candidate themselves to that grade.

That pretty much wipes out most major organizations like Kukkiwon. Speaking of Kukkwon...

For TKD, the authority is Kukkiwon.

Perhaps....But you don't need to be a member to be a legitimate practitioner/Instructor. Oh, if you want their recognition, yes. If you want to compete in their venue, yes. But not in REAL life such as in a dark parking lot.

Look at it this way, Fred is a Kukkiwon certified Master [4th or above]. Barney is his student and gets promoted to 1st by the authority of Fred [who does have the authority]. Barney doesn't want to join Kukkiwon. Perhaps he doesn't have the extra money, perhaps he doesn't see the point, perhaps he's seen to much of the TKD/Kukkiwon BS to want to be a part of it...whatever. Is Barney not a legitimate 1st Dan?

He was taught by a Kukkiwon master....

He did earn the promotion by Kukkiwon established minimum guidelines......

What if he wants to join the ATF. ITF, WIF, AAU or whatever instead?

Just thought I'd throw that out there

:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

Of course, people lower the bar to give 8 year olds a 3rd dan black belt and such and Kukkiwon will never hear of it 9000 miles away, but by they probably won't progress that much more since high ranks are looked upon with closer scrutiny, and the certificates get more and more complex.

And if Kukkiwon is THE TKD authority...how could they allow 8 yr old 3rd degree black belts? Or Korean born grandmasters of 7-8th Dan....in their early 30's? They do have a age restriction....but don't seem to follow it all that closely at times.

And then there is the whole Dan jumping thing...for the right $$$ but thats another story.


Disco, legitimate ultimately means being able to use what you know in real life and go home safe, end of story. Paper, titles and organizations won't be there to step in harm's way for you.

Peace.

:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
And if Kukkiwon is THE TKD authority...how could they allow 8 yr old 3rd degree black belts? Or Korean born grandmasters of 7-8th Dan....in their early 30's? They do have a age restriction....but don't seem to follow it all that closely at times.

And then there is the whole Dan jumping thing...for the right $$$ but thats another story.


Disco, legitimate ultimately means being able to use what you know in real life and go home safe, end of story. Paper, titles and organizations won't be there to step in harm's way for you.

Peace.

:asian:

Have you cared to read anything I have posted? I have posted NUMEROUS times, that dan ranks aren't monitored until the higher ranks in the US.

Korean born 7th and 8th dan in their 30s? From Kukkiwon?

And I'd rather have 7th or 8th dan people in their 30s even if it were from Kukkiwon than from a knock-off organization or a 10th dan in his 30s.

 

[Bujingodai]

This is a funny topic. I left an org some years ago, a legit one. I moved way too far away to continue the path I was going. I met a man that did a different style, a non legit one. He has taught me much over the years. I have also spent in excess of $5G in so many years travelling to different training camps etc.

Now with all this being said I had ended up with some training partners, it grew into more. Utterly an accident that happened but do I consider what I do and what I get taught illegit. Nope, could care less as I am happy.

But I did re enter the org I left as well. I do still train in it under a different teacher, and have since obtained Yudansha in it. It shouldn't matter to me as I also enjoy and love the style I do, but it does.

Those with the most ## write the rules. I would also argue that even the legit orgs that I speak of, have enough of thier own issues that they should concentrate on them, not the independents that just want to train:soapbox:

 

[A.R.K.]

And I'd rather have 7th or 8th dan people in their 30s even if it were from Kukkiwon than from a knock-off organization or a 10th dan in his 30s.

I'd rather have the one that actually knows what he's doing in a real fight.

MA, I'm looking for your input to the question I posted just above....