What concerns you with training?

[Cryozombie]

I pity you because it sounds as if you're satisfied. People who are too satisfied with staying at the level they're currently at in my experience are neither pleasant to train with nor likely to gain any real proficiency.

So... you cannot imporve in your skills, if you are satisifed with your training environment?

Hows that work?

 

[Cryozombie]

U.S. BBT practicioners who would have trained in japan and would still get their *** handed to them by MMA or BJJ.

Haha. Sure. In the ring or on the mats maybe.

Thats another thing I am sick of... this MYTH that MMA and BJJ guys are somehow "magically" unbeatable.

please.

Hows that MMA guy gonna fare on the street when he "shoots" at my legs and I pepper spray his *** then stab a pen into his eye?

Or do they have a magic defense against that too?



Its one thing to be good at a fair fight, its another thing when I have my .45

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

So... you cannot imporve in your skills, if you are satisifed with your training environment?

Hows that work?

"He who stops getting better, stops being good."

As a side note, I was at a big seminar recently in which a former Bujinkan 5th dan and now a world-famous BJJ champion attended the dinner party they threw in the evening. He didn't get into a fight with anyone.

 

[Don Roley]

Here we go again.

I love the mentality that you should drop everything and go to japan.

Got a House, a Job, a Mortgage and a family? Too bad! Go to Japan!

Lessee... Here's me personally...

Do I want to pay my mortgage and have "less than Japanlike" taijutsu skills... or do I want to lose my house and live in a box with my mad "Japan like" taijutu skills.

Id certainly NEED them more with the latter being the case...

Well, this art is centered in Japan, so you should have a current conection with Japan.

If you are not going to Japan yourself, you should be training under a teacher that does when he can. Or train with instructors that do at every chance you can.

There are still a lot of mistakes floating around in the Bujinkan that should be corrected. It is only natural that since we know there were mistakes, that we get a connection to the source to try to find corrections for those mistakes over time.

But just as a general principle, we should always be seeking out better instruction and guidence. There are a lot of people who seem to think they don't have to get any more guidence, and those are the types that make me shake my head.

But in your case, I would advise you to not show up to Japan, at least at your level. You have a connection to Japan throught your teachers and you teacher's teacher. If you ever get to a point where you think that none of the America teachers are in a position to teach you a lot, then it would be time to go to Japan. If you were teaching, I would be more insistent. But really, you should be getting the basics down as best you can at the kyu level and not worry about it now.

But there should be the connection!

 

[Shinkengata]

Haha. Sure. In the ring or on the mats maybe.

Thats another thing I am sick of... this MYTH that MMA and BJJ guys are somehow "magically" unbeatable.

please.

Hows that MMA guy gonna fare on the street when he "shoots" at my legs and I pepper spray his *** then stab a pen into his eye?

Or do they have a magic defense against that too?



Its one thing to be good at a fair fight, its another thing when I have my .45

I was speaking in terms of the unarmed combat. I think it's already been well established that MMA and BJJ tend to play by the rules. My main point is that the way they train has yielded consistently higher quality practicioners than our own art, and going to Japan to train is going to do little to change that if the BBT practicioner continues to train in the half-assed ways i've been seeing for so long. I purchased MMA gloves not long ago because they're light and relatively unobstructive, yet they allow you to practice atemi on your partner with much more ferocity and realism with reduced chance of severe injury.

Nim i apologize if i came off as flaming you.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

My main point is that the way they train has yielded consistently higher quality practicioners than our own art, and going to Japan to train is going to do little to change that if the BBT practicioner continues to train in the half-assed ways i've been seeing for so long.

I agree with you that this way of training is a problem at times in the Bujinkan, that's what I sometimes like to call "Hatsumi syndrome". I think however that you're going to have to be a little more precise when you speak about "higher quality" practitioners. For starters - have you ever wondered why there are relatively few masters (Mestre Bimba of course being a notable exception) of traditional martial arts that look like big and muscular athletes even in their latter years?
The answer - they burned out on the way...

I purchased MMA gloves not long ago because they're light and relatively unobstructive, yet they allow you to practice atemi on your partner with much more ferocity and realism with reduced chance of severe injury.

It doesn't feel the same to get hit with gloves on, I think you already know that.

 

[Shinkengata]

Beats getting hit full speed with bare knuckles.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Depends on where.

 

[Cryozombie]

I was speaking in terms of the unarmed combat. I think it's already been well established that MMA and BJJ tend to play by the rules. My main point is that the way they train has yielded consistently higher quality practicioners than our own art, and going to Japan to train is going to do little to change that if the BBT practicioner continues to train in the half-assed ways i've been seeing for so long.

I guess that makes sense, I just see "fighting" from a different perspective.

I wont "fight" with rules like i am in the schoolyard.

So let me ask you this... if you are a "higher quality practicioner" because you have trained, more days a week, with more intensity... and are just better... but wind up getting killed in your first street fight against a guy who is just "not as good as you" because he had a friend and ring fighting doesnt teach a lot of situational awareness,

Are you REALLY better trained? Or just better suited to your environment?

The reason I ask, is because I dont neccessarly think you can compare the two arts... one that teaches you to take a single opponent to the ground and dominate him, vs one that teaches you to use a knife and a stick in a fight, like Escrima or Arnis, to one that teaches you to exploit an opponents weak spots like Taijutsu does. (Im stuck on this eye blinding idea because I am working on, amongst other things, ideas around using distractions to the eyes to break up my opponents timing)

They are all different methods of combat. Comparing them as to which is better is going to depend on the Arena you put them in. Who is better, a cowboy trick shooter who can shoot a moving nickel out of the air, or a Marine Sniper who can hit a target that you or I cant see by looking at it with our naked eye. Depends, are we at a wild west show, or on a bluff overlooking a battlefield?

 

[Shogun]

I used to have more concerns when I trained every week. now, I only get to train every now and then, an occasional seminar, and those lovely dvds put out by hatsumi so I can see how others move. so, not much anymore. but Bujinkan budo's "weakness" happens to be its biggest strength, the non-specific training. By not adhering to specialized fields of studies


Funny, quick, slightly on topic story:

I was discussing martial arts with an instructor of another art about how weapons and different ryuha are used today. we were discussing Kukishin ryu Biken and he asked the relevance of deep shifting stances, and the large weapons used. I asked him what he'd do if he was sweeping his patio, and some guy comes up and tries to hold him up? maybe with a machete or knife? and other similar questions. see, his chosen art form does not have much as far as "environmental training" is concerned. also, the training they do does have self defense applications, but the view is limited, and it is quite possible they may overlook an important life saving aspect.