What can the police do to get respect back?

[jetboatdeath]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-12-mom-on-trial_N.htm

Look at the comments posted at the bottom......

What can the police do to get their respect back?
I remember as a kid waving at the police they would always wave back, now if you wave you are more than likely to get pulled over.
I can not remember the last time I saw a patrol car in the neighborhood. But I can tell you were all the speed traps are from work too home.
Yes they have a tough job, but wouldn’t it be a little easier if they would take some time to reconnect with the community they serve?

 

[Drac]

Leaving you kids locked in a car for ANY lenght of time IS child endangerment...I have written citations for such an infraction but NEVER arrested...

 

[jetboatdeath]

That was not the question that debate is in another thread.

But what I can take from your reply is….
Don’t listen to the complaint and don’t answer questions posed to you.
Not sure if that is going help much.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I agree with Drac concerning the child it can be seen as child endangerment because the parent left the child alone which means and it has happen where thieves have stolen cars and the child were in the back seat.
As for the question how can the Police earn respect back. I think times have changed and a few "dirty" cops and the media has really hurt the image of what a police officer is and does. For me Police in general will always have my respect for putting their lives on the line even if a couple of rotten eggs are in the basket.

 

[jks9199]

That was not the question that debate is in another thread.

But what I can take from your reply is….
Don’t listen to the complaint and don’t answer questions posed to you.
Not sure if that is going help much.

Well, it seems to me that you're asking the wrong people.

The cops are doing their jobs. Unfortunately, society over the last couple of decades has become ever-decreasingly tolerant of actually being told that they have to obey the same laws and play by the same rules that they want to impose on someone else. I always get a kick out of the results of targeted speed enforcement as a response to community complaints. Somehow, it always seems like we write more tickets to the folks who live there and complained than people passing through... :shrug:

I'm fortunate. I work in a jurisdiction where we enjoy a generally good relationship with the community. But they still don't like it when we're telling them to quiet their party down, or giving them a ticket -- or, even worse, arresting them for something. I had someone tell me that they would no longer donate to the Police Association after I gave them a ticket... H'mm... why were they donating in the first place? It wasn't (apparently) to support the activities of the association, which include sponsoring community youth sports teams and lots of other stuff. As has been said before -- if I wanted to be liked, I'd have been a fireman (aka foundation saver).

Maybe the question shouldn't be "how can the police regain respect" but "why doesn't the public expect themselves to respect the laws?"

 

[jetboatdeath]

I see your points, I have never complained (to the officer) if I got busted for speeding. But the attitude some of the police have (speaking only for the ones that I have dealt with) seem to be well mean.
Two examples of recent pull over’s I have had.
#1
A friend of mine and I were going to get snacks from a gas station.
I got pulled over because my sticker expired (I have no issue for being pulled over)
The officer explained to me why I was pulled over I said “I know I just have not had time to get it replaced”
He said “That’s no excuse”
I said “I know”
About this time another police car pulls up.
The officer then asked me to step out of the car and he proceeded to frisk me.
Why? After he was done he called in my info and started talking to the other officer.
“Any luck tonight?” he says
“Nope I can’t seem to get any one for any thing tonight” says the other.

#2

Got pulled over for a crack in my wind shield.
So I pull over and stop.
Officer on the bull horn “I said pull over”
I looked back to see what he meant as my tires were on the curb.
He gets out slams his door comes up to my truck yelling “WHAT THE HELL PART OF PULL OVER DON”T YOU UNDERSTAND”
My three year old daughter is in tears now.
He tells me I was pulled over for having a cracked windshield but he is also ticketing me for not having a seat belt on.
I look down and see that I do have one on and did when I was driving.
So I said “But Officer I was and still am wearing a seat belt”
He replies “Who the hell are they going to believe me or you”
I went home and called the Chief he looked at the tape and called me back.
He made this officer say he was “sorry I was having a bad day”
I asked him to drop the ticket he said he can’t.
I fought it in court. But only after I asked for the tape for evidence, boy did they drop that case like it was on fire.
What happened to the pleasant officer in that case …? Nothing …… well he had to say he was sorry…


Now am I a hardened criminal that needed this abuse, two traffic offences in 15 years is all that’s on my record.
Why am I expected to show respect to someone who shows me none?
Yes respect the laws I instill this in my children. But it sure was hard to explain to my daughter that a man she was taught to respect was not as she put it a jerk.
It seems that if you are breaking a law sometimes it is hard for the officer to distinguish the difference between a speeding violation and a cross state car chase.
These stories are not made up they can be confirmed by another member on this site.
Just like a story here in Illinois, police in police cars are turning up on speeding cameras. It was proven and verified by the city that the officers were not in the line of duty. they were just speeding and they were ticketed. The debate? The officers say that they will pay them because the city owns the police cars. So an officer breaks the law and is not respecting the law but we should?
These are not single cases, like I said look at the posts on the link 4 pages of people saying the same thing.

 

[jetboatdeath]

Sorry not just in Illinois...

ROCKVILLE, Md. — No matter what the cameras say, some drivers are refusing to pay dozens of $40 speeding fines.

Who? Police officers.

In the last eight months of 2007, Montgomery County's new speed cameras recorded 224 cases in which police vehicles were recorded traveling more than 10 mph over the speed limit, according to department records.

Supervisors dismissed 76 of those citations after determining the officers were responding to calls or had valid reasons to break the speed limit.

But that left 148 who didn't have that excuse, and about two-thirds of those citations haven't been paid, said police Lt. Paul Starks.

The police union says officers shouldn't pay because the citations are issued to the owner of a vehicle, in this case the county, and not to the driver.

Police Chief Thomas Manger doesn't buy that argument.

``We are not above the law,'' Manger said. ``It is imperative that the police department hold itself to the same standards that we're holding the public to.''

Manger said officers who continue to ignore citations might be disciplined.

So only 2/3 of the officers say they are above the law......
Again I ask what can they do? You said ask John Q why he doesn't respect the law i say ask these officers why they don't.

 

[Sukerkin]

As a trans-Atlantic observer, I can say that I sympathise greatly with some of the posts above from those who have suffered undeserved indignities at the hands of those who supposedly are there to enforce the law for the benefit of all.

American police have a terrible public image even in other countries e.g. here in Britain, abuse of authority by mirror-shaded-hicktown-sheriffs is considered to be a commonplace

However, against that has to be balanced that we've had two of our fellow forumites, who also happen to be police officers, give their usual intelligent and balanced points of view of what the 'other side' of the equation looks like. I have a good deal of respect for Drac and jks and have to assume that as 'insiders' they know what they're talking about - after all neither of them are rookies, they've 'been around' and seen a lot.

So which point-of-view is the accurate one?

From so many thousands of miles away, seeing things only through the distorted lens of the media, I can't say with any accuracy.

I'm sure that tales of police mis-application of their role could abound - after all, bad news drives out good very readily. Such stories erode the respect for the police, it is true and it is not unjustified that they be told; for accountability is the flip-side of the coin. However, people should be more aware of the fact that nearly all police activities and their effectiveness are unreported and unwitnessed. How many crimes are prevented by the mere presence of the police? We don't know. That doesn't mean that the officers should not receive due respect for fulfilling one of their primary roles - deterrence.

Being English, I have no axe to grind one way or the other in this so my curiosity is genuine when I re-iterate the OP - what can police do to improve the deserved respect that they seldom receive?

 

[grydth]

What could the cop who tried to frame you and harassed you with your child present do to get respect back? Probably nothing. An officer who would do that does not belong on the street, should not have a uniform and a gun, and should not be paid by the public. Any department who allows an officer on the street when they know he's making up phony citations has a major problem, and at greater than street level.

But, what can the police in general do to regain my respect? That answer, too, is nothing - - - but it is because they have not lost it. Not doubting your word about these individuals for a second, but the misdeeds of a couple officers do not discredit the tens of thousands of brave LEOs out there. I just do not subscribe to that way of thinking.

We had a thread about a Marine allegedly tossing a puppy off a cliff, and some would blame the entire Corps. Um, no. Another thread starter opined that one wacky court suit being commenced made all courts look "pathetic".......sure, right. Can't we condemn the bad apples, which exist in all trades, without going after the huge majority of decent folks in all trades?

 

[jetboatdeath]

Again i show police respect always have, always will, and I teach my children the same.
But when the officer shows no respect for the law or the offender why should they expect it back?*
I respect ALL officers for the job they do there is a reason I don't do it.
I also respect ALL garbage men another job I would not do. But I have also had conversations with the garbage man and asked him not to toss my cans in the street after he is done. It has never happened again.
Respect goes both ways. Are police help to a higher standard than garbage men... YES. Can one officer spoil the rep of all, I don't think so but when stories like this pop all over the nation they can.
I have been pulled over by officers who were nice people I would invite to my house for a beer. But I am sorry to say it is not the norm.
To the two officers.. have you ever sped in your police car or personal car? I am sure you have.Have you ever got out of it because being an officer? I am sure you have.
Why should you not have gotten a ticket when in the same case I would have?

*(that can go either way who was the sherif down south who after the offender shot 3 officers and a police dog was himself shot 68 times, the media asked the sherif why the offended was shot 68 times he replied "Because thats all the rounds we had" the officers showed this scum bag ALL the respect he deserved)

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Respect goes both ways. Are police help to a higher standard than garbage men... YES. Can one officer spoil the rep of all, I don't think so but when stories like this pop all over the nation they can.

I was just on a panel of law enforcement officers speaking with a Journalism student, and this subject was discussed.

Part of the problem is that, as even she says, "if it bleeds, it leads." News stories of "bad" cops always come up because they make headlines. How often do you hear the everyday stories of cops doing a good job. Almost never. So what is the common perception that develops: that all cops are bad, or are waiting for their opportunity to be bad.

American police have a terrible public image even in other countries e.g. here in Britain, abuse of authority by mirror-shaded-hicktown-sheriffs is considered to be a commonplace

I'm curious. Where do you guys get you image of American Police?

 

[Sukerkin]

Hi Kempo

I didn't make clear I think that what I was intimating was that such a view of the American police was a stereotypical one that, in large part arises, from fictional or near fictional tales retold and retold via the media and the Net (hence my use of the phrase "mirror-shaded-hicktown-sheriffs" to indicate a cliche).

 

[Archangel M]

Another sob story from an unknown person who didnt like getting a ticket or pulled over. Now its an issue of how do "cops" get their respect back.

Even if this STORY was verifiable the question should be how do "your cops" get their respect back. Something people have to realize is that all cops are not created equal. Just like your small town in the sticks is different from a major metro area so are the cops. You are going to get WIDE variations in LE agencies. From the 2 cops and the Chief in some hick burg. To highly trained and respectful oranizations in others (which you will NEVER see on the news). To outright corruption agency wide, that draw FBI attention.

 

[Drac]

But what I can take from your reply is….
Don’t listen to the complaint and don’t answer questions posed to you.

I listen to the ALL the complaints and reply the best that I can..The LAW is the LAW...

Not sure if that is going help much

Sure it will..People will STOP leaving their kids in their cars....There was a recent car theft here ..The owner stepped only 10 steps away from his vehicle to drop of DVD's in the return slot..The perps ran up slim-jimmed the door and were gone in about 10-15 seconds...The car was found in the inner-city..Can you imagine IF there would have been a child in the car????

 

[punisher73]

You can't change the public's image of what we do. There are those who will hate us no matter what. There are those who will love us no matter what. There are those that will judge their whole opinion of LEO's based on their one or two experiences good or bad. There are those that will base their opinion of THAT officer based on their own experience.

None of that will change, no matter how many news stories there are or how much money we spend on a PR campaign.

I tell the guys I used to train, "You carry the sins of every officer on your badge". You will be judged by what other officers do, whether you like it or not.

You CAN change one person at a time though. I have had many people tell me after dealing with them. I used to think all cops were jerks, but you're different. And I've had others even when being polite and professional tell me what a jerk I am and how they thought police were different.

At the end of the day you go home to your loved ones and know that you did the best you could do and let a Higher Authority hold you accountable and judge you for how you treated the people under your watch and care.

 

[Sukerkin]

At the end of the day you go home to your loved ones and know that you did the best you could do and let a Higher Authority hold you accountable and judge you for how you treated the people under your watch and care.

A very good post Punisher but I thought that your last there was a prime example of the kind of attitude that will naturally generate respect in and of itself.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Sorry not just in Illinois...

ROCKVILLE, Md. — No matter what the cameras say, some drivers are refusing to pay dozens of $40 speeding fines.

Who? Police officers.

In the last eight months of 2007, Montgomery County's new speed cameras recorded 224 cases in which police vehicles were recorded traveling more than 10 mph over the speed limit, according to department records.

Supervisors dismissed 76 of those citations after determining the officers were responding to calls or had valid reasons to break the speed limit.

But that left 148 who didn't have that excuse, and about two-thirds of those citations haven't been paid, said police Lt. Paul Starks.

The police union says officers shouldn't pay because the citations are issued to the owner of a vehicle, in this case the county, and not to the driver.

Police Chief Thomas Manger doesn't buy that argument.

``We are not above the law,'' Manger said. ``It is imperative that the police department hold itself to the same standards that we're holding the public to.''

Manger said officers who continue to ignore citations might be disciplined.

So only 2/3 of the officers say they are above the law......
Again I ask what can they do? You said ask John Q why he doesn't respect the law i say ask these officers why they don't.

I understand that there are times the police speed.

I understand there are times they use their lights to get through an intersection and then turn them off.

I also understand that there are some police just as in any job who abuse the capabilities of the position for their own gain. Getting home to see a GF or wife. Going to lunch. I have followed some in my area as I was having a problem years ago and was documenting issues.

Yesterday an ambulance used its lights so it could make a left had turn into a right hand turn only entrance and then turn off its lights proceed to the next exit and not turn on its lights back on and exit back onto the road. This could have been just trying to get turned around, but wiht in 300 yards was a left hand turn light. This could have been an abortive call. But as I passed by the drive he was laughing at the back up he had caused. If I was not have dead from this flew and just trying to get to the doctors, I would have tracked down the company and filed a complaint and asked them to show the aborted call.

The issue is that the few that make the press and the news ruin it for many.

 

[jetboatdeath]

I think maybe police have to much gray area. If you pull someone over for going 5 over, what are the determining factors if one guy gets a ticket or not?
I think if the law was pull over everyone speeding and ticket them all would be on a level field. It would take all questions of the stop out.
I am sure the officers have heard it all….. But if every one got the same treatment we could not gripe.
And if an officer is caught committing a crime they should be gone. There is an officer here in Chicago that was busted smoking pot; he is on PAID leave, why is he not fired. Politicians in Chicago have won elections running on the base of cleaning up police corruption. The current commissioner used that as one of his platforms. So saying that it’s only a few is not being honest.
As I have said before I don’t care if I get pulled over EVERY TIME I HAVE I HAVE BROKEN A LAW. I am not anti cop. All I am saying is there seems to be a problem and was wondering what could be done. I have given examples of officers who have broken laws and just said well so what…. I do think there needs to be more coverage for police that do great jobs. Hell I think there needs to be more coverage when I do a good job. I keep the computer operations of the hospital going day in and day out, but let one server fail and all that is forgotten and it is the entire department that gets the bad rep…. I think that is the same for every job, the difference is that the police are in the public eye and should be because we pay them.
I like cops we need cops but I think the cops should be held AT LEAST to the same standard as we are.

 

[jetboatdeath]

Another sob story from an unknown person who didnt like getting a ticket or pulled over. Now its an issue of how do "cops" get their respect back.

Even if this STORY was verifiable the question should be how do "your cops" get their respect back. Something people have to realize is that all cops are not created equal. Just like your small town in the sticks is different from a major metro area so are the cops. You are going to get WIDE variations in LE agencies. From the 2 cops and the Chief in some hick burg. To highly trained and respectful oranizations in others (which you will NEVER see on the news). To outright corruption agency wide, that draw FBI attention.

Who likes getting pulled over? Show of hands.....
So from my STORY you would have not complained and just taken this with a grain of salt? What do you do for a living? Should it be news worthy every time you do "something good"?

Archangle didn't spill his whiteout today NEWS AT 11:00..... please

 

[jks9199]

I think maybe police have to much gray area. If you pull someone over for going 5 over, what are the determining factors if one guy gets a ticket or not?
I think if the law was pull over everyone speeding and ticket them all would be on a level field. It would take all questions of the stop out.
I am sure the officers have heard it all….. But if every one got the same treatment we could not gripe.

Zero tolerance approaches aren't popular, for a good reason. A cop can listen to a person, and decide that there was a decent justification for something, or at least a reason to exercise some discretion. Otherwise, where do you draw a line? Let's consider speed cameras: no discretion, and folks just love 'em, right?

And if an officer is caught committing a crime they should be gone. There is an officer here in Chicago that was busted smoking pot; he is on PAID leave, why is he not fired. Politicians in Chicago have won elections running on the base of cleaning up police corruption. The current commissioner used that as one of his platforms. So saying that it’s only a few is not being honest.

He's probably on paid leave because he hasn't been convicted yet, and because the internal investigation is ongoing. You also may not hear the outcome of that internal investigation; it's a personell matter. Or would you like all your personell records from your job to be published in the papers?

As I have said before I don’t care if I get pulled over EVERY TIME I HAVE I HAVE BROKEN A LAW. I am not anti cop. All I am saying is there seems to be a problem and was wondering what could be done. I have given examples of officers who have broken laws and just said well so what…. I do think there needs to be more coverage for police that do great jobs. Hell I think there needs to be more coverage when I do a good job. I keep the computer operations of the hospital going day in and day out, but let one server fail and all that is forgotten and it is the entire department that gets the bad rep…. I think that is the same for every job, the difference is that the police are in the public eye and should be because we pay them.
I like cops we need cops but I think the cops should be held AT LEAST to the same standard as we are.

Cops are, in many ways, held to a higher standard than the general public. Will you lose your job over a traffic ticket? Are your family's finances subject to investigation?