What are you going to do, shoot me? Absolutely

[Bill Mattocks]

http://www.freep.com/article/200912...s-Detroit-man-calmly-kills-intruder-cops-say-

After 3 break-ins, Detroit man calmly shoots, kills intruder, cops say
By TAMMY STABLES BATTAGLIA
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
Tigh Croff’s home in Detroit had been broken into three times in the last week.

So when he found two men in his backyard on the block of Manistique at 12:30 a.m. Monday, the east-side resident — who is licensed to carry a gun — gave chase, Detroit police said.

One man got away. The other stopped running, turned around, put his hands up and, according to a police source, taunted the 31-year-old homeowner.

“What are you going to do?” Herbert Silas of Detroit reportedly asked, his hands still in the air. “Shoot me?”

“Absolutely,” Croff told investigators he replied before pulling the trigger, the source said. Silas was hit once in the chest, killing him.

http://www.freep.com/article/201001...er-shooting-suspect-Croff-remains-out-on-bail

Intruder shooting suspect Croff remains out on bail
Judge postpones hearing, orders Detroiter to be on tether

Kettler, in arguing that Milhouse should increase Croff’s $40,000 bond, said that as Croff chased 53-year-old Silas, he continually fired his two handguns, hitting a neighboring home. When he caught up to the unarmed suspect, he allegedly told Silas, “You’re going to die today.”

Police reportedly recovered at least seven casings and two live rounds in the block-plus between Croff’s yard and the spot on Philip Street where Silas was slain.

 

[Carol]

I can' understand his frustration, but if he's hunting the perp down, then he isn't directly acting in self-defense anymore.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Neither article said whether or not the two men were merely trespassing or if they had actually broken into Croff's house or if they had any of his property.

I'm an advocate of criminals getting what they deserve, but it's not clear whether or not that did anything other than trespass.

Even if they did break in and steal, Coff had no right to chase them down the street and shoot him in cold blood after he surrendered. That's crossing the line IMHO.

 

[Archangel M]

kettler, in arguing that milhouse should increase croff’s $40,000 bond, said that as croff chased 53-year-old silas, he continually fired his two handguns, hitting a neighboring home. When he caught up to the unarmed suspect, he allegedly told silas, “you’re going to die today.”

yikes!!!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think all of you are right about his reaction being out of line.

But consider where he lives. He's a security guard, no criminal record, a licensed carry holder. He lives in a very bad section of Detroit, which he most likely can't afford to leave (I was a security guard once a long time ago, and could barely afford an apartment with a roommate). His house got broken into three times THAT WEEK, and by the way, that's not that unusual.

There was another news story that day - Detroit reported 8 murders the week of Christmas in Detroit. And let us not forget, this is the Detroit that does NOT SEND the police when you call 911 and report you're being raped or murdered. They MIGHT show up days later, or they might never show up at all - yes, it's that bad. In one case, an 'expose' reporter for the local TV news had to call 911 three times for a dead body frozen in ice in plain public view, and finally he called a friend who worked for the Fire Department and THEY convinced the Detroit police to actually send someone. I've been hung up on by DPD 911 before - not even allowed to make a phone report of a man injured! I complained to the Mayor's office and no one ever called me back!

Live in a city like that and you might begin to feel your back is to the wall. You might begin to feel you're in a war, and nobody, not even the police, are on your side. And then have one of the bad guys taunt you after being caught in your backyard.

Yeah, I get why he did what he did. I'm sorry he did it, because he was wrong and now he's going to have to pay. A good life ruined, because he took out a bad guy the wrong way.

It's sad all around. But I feel nothing for the bad guy. Good riddance to bad baggage.

 

[Carol]

Personally I have a lot more sympathy for this guy than I do the guy in Florida that burned his Playboy model gf beyond all recognition. I can't imagine what the family must be going through as they prepare to lay her to rest. Both were homicides done in the heat of passion, but in very different situations.

I hope that this is going to be a case where the court and jury are understanding. As much as defense attorneys get maligned...there are prolly more than a few folks that are hoping he gets a good one.

 

[Cryozombie]

I think all of you are right about his reaction being out of line.

But consider where he lives. He's a security guard, no criminal record, a licensed carry holder. He lives in a very bad section of Detroit, which he most likely can't afford to leave (I was a security guard once a long time ago, and could barely afford an apartment with a roommate). His house got broken into three times THAT WEEK, and by the way, that's not that unusual.

There was another news story that day - Detroit reported 8 murders the week of Christmas in Detroit. And let us not forget, this is the Detroit that does NOT SEND the police when you call 911 and report you're being raped or murdered. They MIGHT show up days later, or they might never show up at all - yes, it's that bad. In one case, an 'expose' reporter for the local TV news had to call 911 three times for a dead body frozen in ice in plain public view, and finally he called a friend who worked for the Fire Department and THEY convinced the Detroit police to actually send someone. I've been hung up on by DPD 911 before - not even allowed to make a phone report of a man injured! I complained to the Mayor's office and no one ever called me back!

Live in a city like that and you might begin to feel your back is to the wall. You might begin to feel you're in a war, and nobody, not even the police, are on your side. And then have one of the bad guys taunt you after being caught in your backyard.

Yeah, I get why he did what he did. I'm sorry he did it, because he was wrong and now he's going to have to pay. A good life ruined, because he took out a bad guy the wrong way.

It's sad all around. But I feel nothing for the bad guy. Good riddance to bad baggage.

You know what amazes me about this Bill... if everything you claim here is true about the DPD (and I believe you)... I have to wonder: how did this guy get arrested?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You know what amazes me about this Bill... if everything you claim here is true about the DPD (and I believe you)... I have to wonder: how did this guy get arrested?

Yeah, good question and good point!

 

[Tames D]

What a ****ed up city with a ****ed up police department. Who's in charge of this ****ed up city where people get robbed constantly and then get arrested for doing what the police SHOULD be doing? Some changes need to be made in that ****ed up city. WOW!

 

[grydth]

The shooter, in my opinion, is wrong.

I just don't think the death penalty for somebody being in your back yard is appropriate. If in the house and menacing my children - bye; but here we do not have a case where anyone should be dead.

Consider: police found 7 shell casings. 1 slug was in the bad guy. Folks, ask yourselves where the other six rounds went. They could have landed in some mother's heart or some child's brain..... who really thinks running around on a city street spraying lead like this is the correct action?

 

[Archangel M]

This is a lesson in what NOT to do. The homeowner was wrong. Full stop. I have no "sympathy" for the corpse, but this guy was wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Archangel M]

What a ****ed up city with a ****ed up police department. Who's in charge of this ****ed up city where people get robbed constantly and then get arrested for doing what the police SHOULD be doing? Some changes need to be made in that ****ed up city. WOW!

The police should be running down the street firing wildly and then EXECUTING a person for trespassing in a back yard?

You would be one of the people typing wildly about rouge cops who think that they were judge jury and executioner if they DID do what this guy did.

Gimme a break.

 

[Tames D]

The police should be running down the street firing wildly and then EXECUTING a person for trespassing in a back yard?

You would be one of the people typing wildly about rouge cops who think that they were judge jury and executioner if they DID do what this guy did.

Gimme a break.

NO. Give me a break. Don't put words in my mouth. I was commenting about the lack of law and order in the city of Detroit based on what Bill said. Sounds to me like the police don't bother to even show up to a crime scene most of the time. So back off.

 

[Archangel M]

get arrested for doing what the police SHOULD be doing? Some changes need to be made in that ****ed up city. WOW!

Your message there was pretty clear. Why arrest this guy for doing "what the police should be doing"???

WTF??

 

[Tames D]

Your message there was pretty clear. Why arrest this guy for doing "what the police should be doing"???

WTF??[/quote

The police should be doing their job . It appears they are not doing it in Detroit. Why so sensitive? You a Detroit cop?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

With respect to the Detroit Police:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Politics/detroit-police-chief-warren-evans-battles-crime/story?id=8693850

Detroit Police Chief Has to Ignore Some Crimes
Chief Trying to Tame Detroit's Dangerous Streets
...
There are not enough beds in the city jails so some suspects are released, or minor offenders, like the minivan driver, often are not taken in. The in-car cameras and computers in most squad cars don't work so officers can't record traffic stops, run license plates and check for warrants. Officers, even in high crime areas, must leave their patrols to file police reports.

...

A Detroit News review of police and medical examiner records found that the Detroit Police Department systemically undercounted homicides in its 2008 annual report to the FBI. In combing through police records, the paper found that one man who died of multiple stab wounds was not listed in the city's homicide count. Another man determined by the medical examiner to have been beaten to death was classified by police as having died by accident. Even a man who was shot in the head was excluded from the tally.

...

Detroit is truly ground zero for the nation's recession. The unemployment rate hovers around 30 percent. Economic despair makes police officers lives more difficult, Evans said. "When the economy is bad and crimes are being committed based on the economy, it's the perfect storm for crime."

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21761189/detail.html

Detroit Police Cruiser Stolen
Police Warn Against Impersonating Officers

POSTED: Monday, November 30, 2009
UPDATED: 2:17 pm EST November 30, 2009
DETROIT -- Detroit police said they are looking for an undercover police cruiser that was stolen early Monday morning near the intersection of Chene Court and Prince Hall Drive on the city’s east side.

Police said an officer who lives in the area parked the cruiser Sunday night but found it missing when he woke up.

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Detroit-Police-Response-Time-Criticized-/1$40447

Detroit Police Response Time Criticized

Posted: Tuesday, March 4, 2008
Updated: July 8th, 2008 05:27 PM GMT-05:00
The Detroit City Council is reviewing a homeowner's complaint about slow police response.

Leon Dixon said he and his wife had to hide from burglars in their own home after they arrived hours before police showed up.

"We heard some noise, some bumbling, like heavy footsteps or stumbling," said Dixon, adding that he and his wife had no idea the burglars were still inside.

Dixon said he and his wife locked themselves in their bedroom and called police.

The ordeal, according to Dixon, began last Tuesday afternoon when he and his wife rushed home from work after receiving a call from their alarm company.

"Police got the call at about 1:48 p.m. from my burglar alarm company," Dixon said. "What (the burglars) must have done was break the glass, reach in and pop the window latch and pull it up." The raised window triggered the alarm.

After arriving home, Dixon said he and his wife decided to go inside and survey the damage. A short time later, Dixon added, they realized they were not alone and hid in the bedroom.

"We didn't know what else to do," he said. "The first time I called police I didn't identify there was somebody here. I just called to see what was going on (with the police response). I was told 'We already have the call, somebody will be there, you have to give them time.'"

Dixon said he called a second time, explaining that the burglars were still in the home, but still got no immediate help so he called the Northwestern Police District Headquarters.

"The person who answered said, 'We are in the middle of shift change. Maybe you should call 911 again,' " Dixon explained.

Instead, Dixon called Detroit City Councilwoman Joann Watson. He said Watson finally got police to respond but that three hours had passed since the first 911 call and the burglars were long gone.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/17017130/detail.html

Garland told council he has lived in west Detroit all of his life and empathizes with police because his step father was a Detroit police officer and he has volunteered at police stations, however, he said the Detroit police response time is horrible.

He said the house down the street from him was stripped numerous times in the past two weeks and every time he called the police, it took an average of five hours for them to respond.

Councilwoman Watson told council she wants to investigate the slow response time because recently a friend's home was broken into, and while the couple was at home with the robbers in the next room, they called police, but they never showed up. They decided to ask Watson to call police about the break-in, and police arrived shortly after.

No resolution about the Detroit Police Department's slow response time was announced at Monday's meeting.

The former Mayor was convicted of a felony while in office and went to prison. Many of the city council members are under indictment or investigation by the FBI for kickback and bribery claims.

In short, Detroit has problems. No excuse for the actions the homeowner took, but I do understand the frustration people have. I suspect this kind of thing is going to happen more often.

 

[Archangel M]

That sort of response time is inexcusable. I hate to say it but a nearby "big city" PD is much the same.

 

[Carol]

That sort of response time is inexcusable. I hate to say it but a nearby "big city" PD is much the same.

I lived next to a halfway house when I was in the city. Not a very prestigious address, but there was always a LEO around when we needed one. :lol:

 

[Bruno@MT]

What a ****ed up city with a ****ed up police department. Who's in charge of this ****ed up city where people get robbed constantly and then get arrested for doing what the police SHOULD be doing? Some changes need to be made in that ****ed up city. WOW!

You are not suggesting that the police should just shoot everybody who does something wrong (allegedly), right?
The police and gov officials should do their job.

 

[Tames D]

You are not suggesting that the police should just shoot everybody who does something wrong (allegedly), right?
The police and gov officials should do their job.

No, of course I'm not suggesting that. But I do believe they should represent the taxpayers better than they are in Detroit. When police are not responding to emergency calls, I can see how people might get frustrated enough to take the law into their own hands, when ordinarily they wouldn't. Sad.

Maybe I'm just out of touch with a city like that. Maybe it's more common than I'm aware of. I'm very fortunate to have an excellent Sheriffs Department here where I live. The Deputies are top notch and good people too. Can't say enough good things about them.