Well its been a while sincesomthing like that happened part #2

[Raynac]

Haha glad it was you and not me, I think It would have been even more intimidating if he sunk down the 9 inches required to be nose to nose with me.

lol he likely wouldn't pick on me though, ive been told by many people i look like a 12-14 year old (much to my dismay... although i can get cheaper movie tickets) and he seems like he was trying to look tough. people trying to look tough dont beat up 12-14 years olds, its just not cool.

Well i would like to retract this statment, last night I was at a pub with some friends and I was standing talking to one of them when i sensed something was wrong like i was in danger (My teacher calls this sensing intention) so i took a step forward and turned around just in time for some drunk to smash a chair he was holding into the the chair that i had just been leaning against.

now if you were to give me that scenario and ask me how i would react to it i would probley say that i would move as far away from the chair wielding maniac and maybe find something to use in defense of myself.

well none of us know how we are going to react to a situation until we are placed in it. as the chair smashed against each other I didn't even flinch, i didn't even feel the slightest bit of fear. I just stared the guy straight in the eye and gave my head a quick incline as to say "you want to try that again because im not scared of you" and the smile left his face he put down the chair and walked away. 1 minute later he was intercepted by security and escorted off the premisis. (lucky for him because 3 of my friends from across the room, not small guys had seen this and they were pissed that they couldn't tear this guy a new hole because the security had already gotten to him. I was just happy i didn't get hit with a chair.)

i figure my look must have played a factor in this event, because ive been told many times that right before i enter a sparring match (back when i was in karate) or even somtimes when we are practing ukes that once my mindset in the mood for the fight, my entire face and personality changes. i had one person ask to stop the match before it started stating "Will your face is scary... you look like you want to kill me"

if anyone knows me they will know that is the last thing i would ever want to do. and that im a pretty happy go lucky guy whos happy in most every situation whiether i should be or not.

I figured this note was along the same type of story as xue sheng's so i stole the title.

 

[bowser666]

Hey if it works for you then use it ! Suprisingly alot of us have the " warrior instinct" , some would call it courage perhaps. The trick is to keep a cool head, and not get rattled and to let adrenaline take control. That can only come with experience and time. Glad to hear that you didnt get hurt.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Good job at not just attacking the guy, which is probably what I would do.

 

[Raynac]

Good job at not just attacking the guy, which is probably what I would do.

haha well that chair contained alot of metal and he backed up a couple feet to ready his chair for the new hit. had he come at me again I would have definatly attacked him. I was almost sure he was going to come at me again. I was suprised and relieved when he backed down because ready for him or not one wrong move and ive got metal chair legs crashing into me.

 

[theletch1]

haha well that chair contained alot of metal and he backed up a couple feet to ready his chair for the new hit. had he come at me again I would have definatly attacked him. I was almost sure he was going to come at me again. I was suprised and relieved when he backed down because ready for him or not one wrong move and ive got metal chair legs crashing into me.

Honesty. I'm glad to see that you admit to being relieved at not having to actually engage in personal combat. Too often folks allow their egos to get in the way of self defense. That was a win in your combat column as far as I'm concerned. Good to hear that you came out of it alright.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

It takes more courage to show no fear and not fight then it is to fight in fear. Glad to know you are ok glad to know you have friends you can count on as well.

 

[grydth]

First, I am happy that both Xue and you were not injured in either of these encounters.

I don't think anyone can really predict ahead of time how they will react to a violent attack; you can only train hard and trust yourself. Both of you do, and the results speak for themselves. You passed the oldest traditional martial arts test... you survived.

There is something to be said for showing a determination to fight back... if one looks like they can fight, the chances are higher that they will not have to.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

now if you were to give me that scenario and ask me how i would react to it i would probley say that i would move as far away from the chair wielding maniac and maybe find something to use in defense of myself.

I think that would be a very good idea.

I figured this note was along the same type of story as xue sheng's so i stole the title.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the drinking age in Canada was 19?

Congrats and all on the chair-sensing maneuver (I need to ask my sensei when he will be teaching me that), but I'm still a little unsure why your primary instinct (to leave the area) was wrong?

Suppose he had not reacted as well as he did to your stare-down? Then it would have been on, I suppose. And if you had simply left the area?

Again, forgive me in advance, I mean no disrespect and I certainly wasn't there, so I have no idea what would or would not have worked. Glad you didn't get hit by a chair.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There is something to be said for showing a determination to fight back... if one looks like they can fight, the chances are higher that they will not have to.

Gosh, you know, I have had to break up far more than my share of bar fights, and all of them happened because neither person would back down. The ones where one person backed down I have no idea about, because there wasn't a fight and I didn't have to go there to break it up.

I think stare-downs in a barroom are stupendously dangerous. Alcohol, testosterone, and makeshift weapons galore. Recipe for bodybags.

 

[seasoned]

Nice reaction to a very scary situation. Your demeanor and the way you handled yourself, defused a potentially dangerous encounter. Keeping a cool head in self defense is as important as the techniques themselves. Nice job.

 

[grydth]

Gosh, you know, I have had to break up far more than my share of bar fights, and all of them happened because neither person would back down. The ones where one person backed down I have no idea about, because there wasn't a fight and I didn't have to go there to break it up.

I think stare-downs in a barroom are stupendously dangerous. Alcohol, testosterone, and makeshift weapons galore. Recipe for bodybags.

Bill, 99% + of bar fights are both needless and "stupendously dangerous".

The OP did not mention that this started via a trash talk exchange or a stare down. He was attacked by surprise from behind, so the only question was how to react to that. He made it clear that a resumption would be met with force. The assailant backed off and Ray was unhurt. Results kinda speak for themselves, don't they?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

He made it clear that a resumption would be met with force. The assailant backed off and Ray was unhurt.

Ray was not in charge of how the chair-slinger would respond. He could only control his own actions, not those of a (assuming) drunken idiot chair thrower.

In my experience, a person drunk enough to throw a chair in a bar is not reasoning properly. Expecting him to react intelligently to a stare-down seems a bit of a reach.

Results kinda speak for themselves, don't they?

Anecdotal evidence speaks for that situation, not for general results. I asked what would have happened if Mister Chair Tosser had decided not to back down. I guess a fight, yes? Walking away from Mister Chair Thrower - likely to cause a fight? It seems to me that the risk factor favors walking away. That Ray rolled the dice and his maneuver worked is a very good thing - I think also very lucky.

 

[Archangel M]

Why are you attracting this type of "attention"?

 

[grydth]

I think you are way too harsh on Ray.

If you think turning your back on somebody - an individual who already has attacked you without warning from behind - is sound strategy.... fine. I agree with what the OP did. That's what Forums are about.

Nobody has a technique that can control what the other guy will do. But showing him that coming at you again will get him a violent response can back somebody down.... it did here and I have seen it work before. "Anecdotal" ? Yeah, but so are yours. Let's air out what we think and let folks pick.... always hoping that it stays words and they never have it happen.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think you are way too harsh on Ray.

I'm not sure how I was 'harsh' on him. I said that I wasn't there, so I can't judge, I complimented him on avoiding being injured, and I apologized in advance for stating my opinion.

If you think turning your back on somebody - an individual who already has attacked you without warning from behind - is sound strategy.... fine. I agree with what the OP did. That's what Forums are about.

I didn't say anything about turning my back on someone who is drunk and tossing chairs around. I said "leave the area," which Ray also said he would have considered prior to his MA training.

Nobody has a technique that can control what the other guy will do. But showing him that coming at you again will get him a violent response can back somebody down.... it did here and I have seen it work before.

I disagree. My experience comes not from martial arts training, which I have very little of, but law enforcement, which I had about a decade of. Breaking up bar fights is not as much fun as it looks on TV. And I never saw a bar fight that started because one guy left.

"Anecdotal" ? Yeah, but so are yours. Let's air out what we think and let folks pick.... always hoping that it stays words and they never have it happen.

Fair enough. Let's just take some basic observations.

The first is, you can't have a violent confrontation with someone if you are not in the area.

The second is, almost all barroom fights are consensual, meaning both parties are ready and willing to throw down.

The third is, bars are full of drunk people, and drunk people are known to not have good judgment while intoxicated. They call them 'barroom brawls' for a reason.

So here I am in a bar with a bunch of drunks, and one of them tosses a chair my way, which I manage to avoid. I can a) leave the area and attempt to avoid his ire, or b) give him the bad stare and hope he gets the message that I am Not To Be Messed With.

Given that the bad stare will work - as we see here - the question, then is this - will walking away work? And if both will work, then which is least likely to result in violence?

I suspect that one of the reasons people have trouble seeing 'walking away' as a viable option is because they are young and their friends are there and they have to display their manliness or lose status amongst their peers.

I suggest that the one that has the least chance of violence is the better choice.

 

[Archangel M]

10-4

 

[Raynac]

ugh I always have to edit my large post so much

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the drinking age in Canada was 19?

Congrats and all on the chair-sensing maneuver (I need to ask my sensei when he will be teaching me that), but I'm still a little unsure why your primary instinct (to leave the area) was wrong?

well to clear up somethings yes indeed the drinking age in most parts of canada is 19, I was at a universcity run function so i was allowed in but was not allowed to get alcohol. not that i would want it anyways, ive tried it before and all it does is make me feel sad, life is much funner minus alcohol.

and I should have been clearer on the leaving the area, my instict was move out of the space i was occuping not leave the area in general

I'm not sure how I was 'harsh' on him. I said that I wasn't there, so I can't judge, I complimented him on avoiding being injured, and I apologized in advance for stating my opinion.

I didn't say anything about turning my back on someone who is drunk and tossing chairs around. I said "leave the area," which Ray also said he would have considered prior to his MA training.

I disagree. My experience comes not from martial arts training, which I have very little of, but law enforcement, which I had about a decade of. Breaking up bar fights is not as much fun as it looks on TV. And I never saw a bar fight that started because one guy left.

Fair enough. Let's just take some basic observations.

The first is, you can't have a violent confrontation with someone if you are not in the area.

The second is, almost all barroom fights are consensual, meaning both parties are ready and willing to throw down.

The third is, bars are full of drunk people, and drunk people are known to not have good judgment while intoxicated. They call them 'barroom brawls' for a reason.

So here I am in a bar with a bunch of drunks, and one of them tosses a chair my way, which I manage to avoid. I can a) leave the area and attempt to avoid his ire, or b) give him the bad stare and hope he gets the message that I am Not To Be Messed With.

Given that the bad stare will work - as we see here - the question, then is this - will walking away work? And if both will work, then which is least likely to result in violence?

I suspect that one of the reasons people have trouble seeing 'walking away' as a viable option is because they are young and their friends are there and they have to display their manliness or lose status amongst their peers.

I suggest that the one that has the least chance of violence is the better choice.

all sound advice in my opnion, all though as you said you weren't there, the event was held in an indoor soccer area, so leaving the area was difficult to leave because it was so open, well it would have been easier to leave if he had been the chair tossing guy you imagined from my text but He was swinging his chair , and by the time I realised what was happening he had the chair above his head in preparation for another strike.

I agree a staredown isn't the smartest move. but at that moment (because there wasn't much time to analyze things) my observations were that I had chairs and tables obsecuring my movements. The only clear path at that moment was between me and the attacker and I didn't want to get closer to the guy with the chair, but would counter attack (defend) myself if he tried again. The staredown wasn't meant to scare him off (although thankfully it worked) it was meant to intimidate him so i had more time to firgure out what was happening. because at that moment retreat didn't seem like an option (although it was chairs and tables are easy to move)

its ok to say that I could have just walked away, but that guy looked by all accounts like he would chase me down if I did, and I can only focus on so many things at once, defence against a chair seemed to be the main priority in my mind.

and I also didn't say I would have left the area prior to my martial arts training, I said if you gave me that scenario and asked what I would do in it. I would have told you my likely action would be too move away. I have gained no extra confidence from my training that would at this point have me change my mind about how to handle a guy comming at you with a chair. If you had given me the same scenario minutes before I would give you the same anwser, I was just pointing out that people don't know how they will react to a situation, and that i certainly didn't

Once again just let me state i agree with you on most of this and that as a law enforcement officer your opnion has much weight in this situation. but when your in danger your mind doesn't always jump to the most logical conclusions

Thanks everyone for your input

 

[grydth]

Bill, I don't want to give you the impression that I disagree with you on the effectiveness of walking away in many instances. Indeed, short of staying away from known trouble spots in the first place, you are providing some of the best general advice out there. Irrespective of how good a fighter we may imagine ourselves to be.

In this specific case, though, I thinks the facts are different and the OP did the right thing. I don't see either any macho or any peer pressure affecting Ray's decision.... his call to stand appears to have been motivated solely by his read of the situation and the guy in front of him.

I agree with Ray that if somebody has already attacked you once... by surprise.... from the back....with a weapon... poised to strike again.... his reaction to stand was correct. It turns out he was right.

Let's hope we all have few such experiences in our future. I respect what Ray did.... as I do the experience you bring to the table here.

 

[Raynac]

Why are you attracting this type of "attention"?

Haha honestly I dont know, I was just leaning againt the chair, I had just finished chatting with some friends and was about to hit the dance floor. I figured they attacked because I'm small and therefore would be easy prey for someone looking to start a fight.

It was our schools largest event with 650-800 people in attendance. and a small group of people were pretty rowdy. the event got shut down an hour early due to fights, but there were so many people in such a large room the only one I was aware of was the one that almost occured between me and the guy with the chair. I didn't even hear yelling or anything from the other fights. let alone see them.

 

[jks9199]

There is absolutely a time and place to walk away from someone or a fight. There is an equally absolutely right time and place to confidently face the potential attacker. Unfortunately, it's often unclear which is the right course until the wrong one has failed. When you can walk away, and it's a valid option, it's often -- not always -- the best choice. (Perhaps Kenny Rogers said it best in The Coward of the County.)

That said, walking away is sometimes not possible, and other times not wise. In a crowded environment, you may not have the room or travel route to walk away, at least not without exposing yourself to potential attack. At a time like that, sometimes a simple display of confidence may deter a potential attacker long enough for help to arrive, or to shake their own bravado enough that they'll stop. Have you ever seen somebody doing something and asked them "what are you doing?" only to see the light go on in their head how dumb their actions were? That's sometimes enough...

The only catch to that display of confidence is that you must be ready, willing, and able to back it up. The funny thing is, as Grydth noted, the more you are ready to back it up -- the less often you have to.