Well can it work

[terryl965]

Dancingalone brought up a good thread about size and self defense, here is my question Bruce Lee the father of modern day training was a perfect example of a small person controlling thier destiny in a given stituation. The only propblem is most people do not work on it for 12-18 hours a day, they tend to be 3 days a week at an hour of class time, so with this limitation can a small person really have the upper hand against a bigger, stronger opponet?

Here is the scnerio guy 1 is 5'5" tall wieghing in at 135 pounds, guy 2 is a 6' 8" 365 pound built to the max person. They get in a pushing match over a girl and all hell breaks out the guy 1 has taken karate for 5 year twice a week at a YMCA and believe he knows everything guy 2 is simply a brawler, no weapon just hands and feet can the smaller guy generate enough power to really hurt the bigger guy? Why could'nt the bigger guy put him down and sit on him for a good while? I know still not enough info. but what I thought would be fun is each person write what could be done and then the next person adds on to see where this confortation goes from person to person.

Let the fun begun......

 

[Manny]

Telling the story as you do, the karate (smaller) guy it's going to be very dificult to him to overcome the large guy, I think the size does matter, not always but the case you post the size matters.

The smaller guy must to be cleaver to hit the right spots like the eyes (to blind the larger guy) or the troath to then try to finish him with a knee or kick to the groing and maybe al elbow to the head when the large guy is on the floor.

A few years back doing kyorugi with a larger guy inside the dojang I realize no matter how hard I punched in the gut the larger guy he didin't felt any disconfort so I tought that to put him down I will need to use dirty blows to bring him down and then finishing him. I am 260 punds and 6 feet tall the other guy was six feet two and 330 punds.

Manny

 

[ATC]

Depending on how the smaller trained makes all the difference. If he trained hard for the limited time he trained and held back nothing and took everything that was dished out to him, then yes he can win.

Simply do this. Put a hogu on one of your 5 year students that only comes twice a week but trains pretty hard. Then punch him in the center of the hogu pretty hard.

Now take a new student that of the same size and do the same thing with the same amount of force.

Observe the results.

To do the experiment simple make the class a SD class and tell them that we are wearing hogus for protection and we are going to partner up and use full contact to make today’s training as real as possible. Demonstrate a simple block and count to a hook punch by blocking the punch and countering to the solar plexus. Use the two students to demonstrate the technique on.

You will see a difference in who can take more.

When they partner up you will also see who can dish out more as well. Who hits harder and why. You will see that the person that trained for 5 years will far out class the guy that has not.

Size is only one factor and many big people that don't train are quite soft and really can't fight nor take pain all that well. They may not be that coordinated either making them nothing more than a nice heavy bag to work out on.

 

[terryl965]

Ok we are missing the point here, we are making the scenerio as we see it going. I started it now you get to add on to each blow as it happens and lets see the outcome. Remember this is for fun and to see how each of us would view the outcome in a step by step scene.

 

[Disco]

Using your given profiles (5'5"-135lbs vs 6'8"-365lbs) is quite a massive size difference, but we'll go with that. Can the little guy do damage? Yes, but he must pick his spot(s) carefully and most likely will only have 1 shot at it. If I were the little guy, My first attempt would be a low line drive sidekick at the side of the ankle. This is the weakest part of this massive guys body and bears all of his weight. If I'm successful and the strike is on target, I'll either break the ankle or at worst, give him a sever sprain that would allow me to either escape or attempt another technique. Second choice would be a groin strike followed by another frontal sidekick to the knee. The old adage, chopping the tree down applies here. He's to big for me to attempt to go to the head/eyes, so that's out. In reality, my target areas are very limited, but nothing is ever absolute. Just as an outside reference, this big guy could just have a glass jaw, but it's doubtful that a 5'5" guy is going to be able to reach it.

 

[StudentCarl]

Assuming we're past:
1. Shut your mouth and grow up. Make sure he starts it both verbally and physically. The size disparity may support your defensive use of a weapon.
2. Unless the girl's safety is threatened, offer to buy the big guy a beer and try to talk him down. A beer is cheaper than court costs. You don't get the girl if you get locked up.

With no info on physical layout and both unarmed, I go for throw something in his face then chop down the tree (kick to ankle or knee), and look for an expedient weapon if you have time. Because of the size difference, surprise could be decisive so a pre-emptive attack is your best chance if you can distract him. Don't kick him once he's down if you can get away, or you just became the aggressor.

Footwork and quickness are necessary to keep his hands off of you if you don't drop him with the first shot (because of his reach advantage)--hope you've been sparring lately and have fast feet. If you clinch you probably lose this one big. Beer mug makes a nice persuader on anything it hits, but works best off-the-line from concealment. Break contact as soon as possible and go back to white belt for lack of self-control.

Now...getting past reality: his reach advantage is huge. Best approach is to use your mobility to get him to commit to a technique, then take out an ankle or knee with stomp. If you get that far, you should leave while you're ahead.

Carl

 

[Stac3y]

Simply do this. Put a hogu on one of your 5 year students that only comes twice a week but trains pretty hard. Then punch him in the center of the hogu pretty hard.

Now take a new student that of the same size and do the same thing with the same amount of force.

Observe the results.

LOL, ATC; I read this as "5 year OLD students" and almost passed out.

 

[dortiz]

Balance... it knows no size : )

 

[Tez3]

LOL, ATC; I read this as "5 year OLD students" and almost passed out.

You mean, you don't do this with your five year old students? :uhyeah:

 

[granfire]

No items, Fox only

FINAL DESTINATION



sry could not resist...

 

[ATC]

LOL, ATC; I read this as "5 year OLD students" and almost passed out.

Ha ha ha...now that would be funny. Well maybe not. But the image of a person just walkng by and looking in to see that would be funny to watch their reaction to something like that.

 

[Manny]

We can follow the karate kid saying. If he can't breath he cant' fight, if he can't see he can't fight, if he can't walk he can't fight. Pretty simple don't you think?

Manny

 

[igillman]

The other people have already said it, go for the knees, ankles and anything else below the waist. If you end up on the ground with them then go for the eyes as it is the one part of the body you cannot strengthen. There is no point hitting this guy above the waist unless he bends over and you can beat him in the head.

When dancing around, never move straight backwards. If the guy lift his leg to kick then step towards him and push him over. Do not try anything fancy and be careful with any takedown moves as a lot of them were designed for people who are the same size.

Exit strategy, before the fight begins look for your exit and then every move you make should be designed to get to the exit. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.

 

[David43515]

I`ve been on both sides of this coin. If the guy is that much taller than you you may have a good chance to take him down with a wrist lock or an armdrag if he doesn`t know to lower his center of gravity. But you`d have to be fast because at that size he`s strong as a bull.

If I were the big guy (and here in Japan I tend to be bigger than everyone) chances are I`ll grab you and try to hold you in place before I hit you. Either that, or once I grab I`m gonna shake you around and throw you into things. So don`t let me get my hands on you. Your longest weapon is a low fast sidekick. Don`t use it to try and break my knee, that takes to much power. Use it light and fast agaainst my knees to keep me from getting close. create space. Find a weapon, any weapon. This is a situation that the law reffers to as disparity of force. It means there`s no way you are equal to me, to save yourself from serious injury or death you NEED an equalizer.

Have you ever rough-housed around with a small child, say upto 8-10 years old? You had no trouble man-handling them did you? Now imagine you`re an average -sized man and I`m that 6'8" 365 pound guy. Even if I`m a clumbsy couch potato you`re in for a hard time. If I`m a college football player or a lumberjack or anyone else who has a tough physical job and some muscle, I`m gonna toss you around like you toss around that 8 yr old kid.And odds are you can`t hurt me fast enough to stop me. This is why the old fighters only worked on mastering 2-3 techniques, so they were rock solid and worked everytime.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I`ve been on both sides of this coin. If the guy is that much taller than you you may have a good chance to take him down with a wrist lock or an armdrag if he doesn`t know to lower his center of gravity. But you`d have to be fast because at that size he`s strong as a bull.

If I were the big guy (and here in Japan I tend to be bigger than everyone) chances are I`ll grab you and try to hold you in place before I hit you. Either that, or once I grab I`m gonna shake you around and throw you into things. So don`t let me get my hands on you. Your longest weapon is a low fast sidekick. Don`t use it to try and break my knee, that takes to much power. Use it light and fast agaainst my knees to keep me from getting close. create space. Find a weapon, any weapon. This is a situation that the law reffers to as disparity of force. It means there`s no way you are equal to me, to save yourself from serious injury or death you NEED an equalizer.

Have you ever rough-housed around with a small child, say upto 8-10 years old? You had no trouble man-handling them did you? Now imagine you`re an average -sized man and I`m that 6'8" 365 pound guy. Even if I`m a clumbsy couch potato you`re in for a hard time. If I`m a college football player or a lumberjack or anyone else who has a tough physical job and some muscle, I`m gonna toss you around like you toss around that 8 yr old kid.And odds are you can`t hurt me fast enough to stop me..

I finmd your post contradictory, I think. The first part indicates a guy 5'5" 135lbs is going to do a wrist lock or arm drag on soeone 6'8" and 365lbs, and the second part seems to indicat how it's not going to work.

Did I miss something?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here is the scnerio guy 1 is 5'5" tall wieghing in at 135 pounds, guy 2 is a 6' 8" 365 pound built to the max person. They get in a pushing match over a girl and all hell breaks out the guyLet the fun begun......

1. Doesn't seem to be much of a "Match".
2. #1 has already badly screwed up if he is getting shoved more than once.
3. If the girl really likes the big slob let him have her, she's not worth it.

 

[StudentCarl]

...guy 1 is 5'5" tall wieghing in at 135 pounds, guy 2 is a 6' 8" 365 pound built to the max

...can the smaller guy generate enough power to really hurt the bigger guy?

There's a technical answer and a realistic one:

Yes, the smaller guy can really hurt the big guy: you can't condition certain targets such as eyes, throat, groin.

Realistically? The difference in attributes is too big--little guy loses 95+% of the time. If the little guy is in a pushing match with a guy that big, the little guy probably needs a treatment program for drugs, alcohol, or mental illness.

Besides, the girl isn't really interested in either one of these clowns. Neither one is at the top of the gene pool if he's involved in this conflict. She just wants guys fighting over her.