R
RyuShiKan
Guest
Ok Einstein, after your in depth look at the workouts on the website mentioned what are your expert recommendations for improving them?
Ok Einstein, after your in depth look at the workouts on the website mentioned what are your expert recommendations for improving them?
Kalicombat
Green Belt
Kirk,
The "one set workout" is based on HIT training or High Intensity Training. IT was popularized by two pro bodybuilders whom peaked in the late 70's and early 80's. Sad to say, they were the Mentzer brothers, Mike Mentzer being the most notable and most successful as far as bodybuilding goes. They both died, in their late 40's within the last year or so. A result of the enormous amounts of anabolic steroids they partook of in their carrers.
HIT training was also popularized by Nautilus. The Nautilus principal was one set per excercise, between 8 and 12 reps, 4 seconds on the lowering of the weight, and 2 seconds on the actual lifting of the weights. This technique was thought to stimulate more muscle growth and is also known as negative accentuated training. In terms of strength training, the technique is flawed becuase one does not care how much weight they can lower. Only how much they can press or lift. HIT and negative accentuated training also puts undo stress on the joints. I experimented with it for three months, and while I lost no size at all, and my chest seemed thicker, I did lose 20 pounds on my max bench press.
There are no short cuts as far as gaining strength and power. Also there are no generic rep set schemes. If lifting for muscle size, the reps should be between 6 and 10 for no more then 6 sets per body part.... or 2 excercises , 3 sets each. If lifting for strength, reps should be between 3 and 5 for up to 9 sets per body part. ALso, strength training should be done with heavier wieghts, with longer rest periods between sets. Training to failure is a definite NO-NO as far as strength training goes. As far as lifting for weight loss or cutting up as it is commonly known, go all out with up to 20 reps per set, 3 or 4 sets per excercise.
Always use good form in a controled manner to eliminate any chance of injury.
In closing, remember all of the Nautilus Fitness centers that were everywhere in the 80's? Why do you think they are no longer around in such volume? Because their principals didnt work, their machines only targeted a very specific muscle, use of their machines does not allow for stabilizer muscles to be worked, and the range of motion that one goes through is radically reduced on any machine, not only Nautilus. Use free weights, do compound movements like the bench press, squat, and deadlift, powercleans, dips, and stay away form things that include cables or machines.
Just my $0.02,
Gary Catherman
The "one set workout" is based on HIT training or High Intensity Training. IT was popularized by two pro bodybuilders whom peaked in the late 70's and early 80's. Sad to say, they were the Mentzer brothers, Mike Mentzer being the most notable and most successful as far as bodybuilding goes. They both died, in their late 40's within the last year or so. A result of the enormous amounts of anabolic steroids they partook of in their carrers.
HIT training was also popularized by Nautilus. The Nautilus principal was one set per excercise, between 8 and 12 reps, 4 seconds on the lowering of the weight, and 2 seconds on the actual lifting of the weights. This technique was thought to stimulate more muscle growth and is also known as negative accentuated training. In terms of strength training, the technique is flawed becuase one does not care how much weight they can lower. Only how much they can press or lift. HIT and negative accentuated training also puts undo stress on the joints. I experimented with it for three months, and while I lost no size at all, and my chest seemed thicker, I did lose 20 pounds on my max bench press.
There are no short cuts as far as gaining strength and power. Also there are no generic rep set schemes. If lifting for muscle size, the reps should be between 6 and 10 for no more then 6 sets per body part.... or 2 excercises , 3 sets each. If lifting for strength, reps should be between 3 and 5 for up to 9 sets per body part. ALso, strength training should be done with heavier wieghts, with longer rest periods between sets. Training to failure is a definite NO-NO as far as strength training goes. As far as lifting for weight loss or cutting up as it is commonly known, go all out with up to 20 reps per set, 3 or 4 sets per excercise.
Always use good form in a controled manner to eliminate any chance of injury.
In closing, remember all of the Nautilus Fitness centers that were everywhere in the 80's? Why do you think they are no longer around in such volume? Because their principals didnt work, their machines only targeted a very specific muscle, use of their machines does not allow for stabilizer muscles to be worked, and the range of motion that one goes through is radically reduced on any machine, not only Nautilus. Use free weights, do compound movements like the bench press, squat, and deadlift, powercleans, dips, and stay away form things that include cables or machines.
Just my $0.02,
Gary Catherman
E
Elfan
Guest
What is "HIT":
http://www.sover.net/~timw/faq07.htm
Note that HIT is a very vauge and inclusive term, sort of like "Kenpo."
Nautilus:
Natuilus Bulletin 1: http://www.medxonline.com/Exsci/bulletin1.html
Natuilus Bulletin 2: http://www.medxonline.com/Exsci/bulletin2.html
Both by Arthur Jones, a quick google search will reveal a basic biography.
On HIT and famouse men in thongs:
I woudn't judge HIT or *any* exercise methoidology based on how genetic freaks on steroids preform but
Sergio Olivia andCasey Viator are at least as well known as the Mentzer brothers and both are well known for their involvement with Jones (ie the famouse "Colorodo Experiment.") Like I said though the number of profesional bodybuilders using a program isn't something it should be judged by.
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For general training recomendation I would recomend the Hardgainer Bodybuilding & Weightlifting FAQ
http://www.sover.net/~timw/faq07.htm
Note that HIT is a very vauge and inclusive term, sort of like "Kenpo."
Nautilus:
Natuilus Bulletin 1: http://www.medxonline.com/Exsci/bulletin1.html
Natuilus Bulletin 2: http://www.medxonline.com/Exsci/bulletin2.html
Both by Arthur Jones, a quick google search will reveal a basic biography.
On HIT and famouse men in thongs:
I woudn't judge HIT or *any* exercise methoidology based on how genetic freaks on steroids preform but
Sergio Olivia andCasey Viator are at least as well known as the Mentzer brothers and both are well known for their involvement with Jones (ie the famouse "Colorodo Experiment.") Like I said though the number of profesional bodybuilders using a program isn't something it should be judged by.
------
For general training recomendation I would recomend the Hardgainer Bodybuilding & Weightlifting FAQ
Kalicombat
Green Belt
Elfan,
The Colorado Experiment was a sham. First, Casey Viator made such incredible gains from the amount of anabolic steroids he was on, not due to the amazing methodology of Arthur Jones. The recorded gains themselves are suspect. If the gains that he proclaims were authentic, then why wouldnt Viator stay in Colorado for 6 more months? At those gains, he would have gained over 360 more pounds of muscle. LOL, NOT POSSIBLE.
Also, You are talking about bodybuilders, not a good example of strength athletes. They are in the game for aesthetics, balanced physiques, held up to a standard that has changed over the years as often as most of the bodybuilders change their steroid stacks. My post was in response to Kirks question on strength training. My experience is in powerlifting and extreme weightloss, not bodybuilding. Powerlifters are by no means virgins when it comes to anabolic steroid abuse, but, their goals are far different then a bodybuilder. Look at any top strength athlete in the world, they would never think of following a one set scheme for training, nor would they advocate the super slow methodology of Arthur Jones. Speed is a crucial factor in achieving a 1 rep max. HIT training is not the end-all, be-all of training. If it were, every football team, powerlfiting team and olympic weightlifter in the world would employ such principles. They dont. Intense training is always a must, but those 30 minute, non stop workouts, are not optimal for strength gains. They do work for cutting fat, and even pumping the muscles, which by the way, "getting the pump" is counter productive to strength gains. I dont have the time to research a bunch of studies to post on here, I have to lift weights tonight. I'll just say that Ive been there, and am doing that. Email me if youd like to find out more on my qualifications as far as exercise and fitness goes.
Just my $0.02,
Gary Catherman
The Colorado Experiment was a sham. First, Casey Viator made such incredible gains from the amount of anabolic steroids he was on, not due to the amazing methodology of Arthur Jones. The recorded gains themselves are suspect. If the gains that he proclaims were authentic, then why wouldnt Viator stay in Colorado for 6 more months? At those gains, he would have gained over 360 more pounds of muscle. LOL, NOT POSSIBLE.
Also, You are talking about bodybuilders, not a good example of strength athletes. They are in the game for aesthetics, balanced physiques, held up to a standard that has changed over the years as often as most of the bodybuilders change their steroid stacks. My post was in response to Kirks question on strength training. My experience is in powerlifting and extreme weightloss, not bodybuilding. Powerlifters are by no means virgins when it comes to anabolic steroid abuse, but, their goals are far different then a bodybuilder. Look at any top strength athlete in the world, they would never think of following a one set scheme for training, nor would they advocate the super slow methodology of Arthur Jones. Speed is a crucial factor in achieving a 1 rep max. HIT training is not the end-all, be-all of training. If it were, every football team, powerlfiting team and olympic weightlifter in the world would employ such principles. They dont. Intense training is always a must, but those 30 minute, non stop workouts, are not optimal for strength gains. They do work for cutting fat, and even pumping the muscles, which by the way, "getting the pump" is counter productive to strength gains. I dont have the time to research a bunch of studies to post on here, I have to lift weights tonight. I'll just say that Ive been there, and am doing that. Email me if youd like to find out more on my qualifications as far as exercise and fitness goes.
Just my $0.02,
Gary Catherman
E
Elfan
Guest
Kalicombat,
I belive you misread the intent of my post. I was mearly trying to explain in general what the amorphous term "HIT" refers to and to point out that it is not mainly popularized by the Mentzer brothers (who I never heard much of personaly even when they were alive). I too could post a number of studies and profesional articles showing why HIT is not the best way to train, I had a list of them at one point in time.
Free weights vs. machines is a seperate discussion.
One set, three sets, both can be useful depending on indvidual needs.
I belive you misread the intent of my post. I was mearly trying to explain in general what the amorphous term "HIT" refers to and to point out that it is not mainly popularized by the Mentzer brothers (who I never heard much of personaly even when they were alive). I too could post a number of studies and profesional articles showing why HIT is not the best way to train, I had a list of them at one point in time.
Free weights vs. machines is a seperate discussion.
One set, three sets, both can be useful depending on indvidual needs.
W
Wmarden
Guest
What works is the program you are able to stick with some allowance for variation and recovery factors. Overall there are any number of programs one could do to improve specific aspects of their sport/physical activity/etc. HIT works if you do, but it is not quite the way I train. I do respect a great many HIT trainers. Just some of them(like any group it is usually the new converts) seem to think it is the only answer. Even high volume training can work if you have enough discipline and stick to it.
I borrow from those I respect and who have been successful. Look at what champions have done and borrow what you can to make your weight program your own. I had not thought of it that way, but you might consider it a JKD type approach to weight training. Two big influences on my training have been Paul Anderson(strongest man in modern times) and Louie Simmons(trainer of powerlifting champions. I have also borrowed techniques and training ideas from Ed Coan, Vince Anello, and any number of powerlifting champions.
Strength training is fairly simple. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. As for one versus multiple sets, there are too many variables to say one is better than the other. Pick some ideas and explore them.
In my training I prefer more moderate rep numbers, but perhaps more sets. For example do say 5 sets of 2 in the squat with a moderate weight. And I have done some training where I go for 10 reps in the deadlift and rack pull. Which most don't advocate.
My problem currently in training is trying to figure out how to get it all together and work on my Jujitsu skills. Plus the time I have to devote to other training in my quest to become a police officer.
The above is the long answer, below is the short answer.
"Everything works, but nothing works forever" Louie Simmons.
I borrow from those I respect and who have been successful. Look at what champions have done and borrow what you can to make your weight program your own. I had not thought of it that way, but you might consider it a JKD type approach to weight training. Two big influences on my training have been Paul Anderson(strongest man in modern times) and Louie Simmons(trainer of powerlifting champions. I have also borrowed techniques and training ideas from Ed Coan, Vince Anello, and any number of powerlifting champions.
Strength training is fairly simple. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. As for one versus multiple sets, there are too many variables to say one is better than the other. Pick some ideas and explore them.
In my training I prefer more moderate rep numbers, but perhaps more sets. For example do say 5 sets of 2 in the squat with a moderate weight. And I have done some training where I go for 10 reps in the deadlift and rack pull. Which most don't advocate.
My problem currently in training is trying to figure out how to get it all together and work on my Jujitsu skills. Plus the time I have to devote to other training in my quest to become a police officer.
The above is the long answer, below is the short answer.
"Everything works, but nothing works forever" Louie Simmons.
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
What are you looking to develop? Strength or size?
If you are looking to maximize the investments in your workout (i.e. best benefit, least time), I have to say that Pavel's PTP workout guidelines are great...
Simplest workout plan - a deadlift (or deadlift variant), 5 sets of 3 - 5 reps; a press (or variant thereof, i.e. military press, standard bench press, etc.), 5 sets of 3 - 5 reps. Now go home.
The workout I do with my buddy from work takes us about an hour to do, three times a week. We use kettlebell as well as regular barbells (no dumbbells at all). If it was just me, it might only take me 20 - 30 minutes (we do a fair share of gawking, chatting and laughing as we lift, so we waste a little time during the workout) at the most.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
If you are looking to maximize the investments in your workout (i.e. best benefit, least time), I have to say that Pavel's PTP workout guidelines are great...
Simplest workout plan - a deadlift (or deadlift variant), 5 sets of 3 - 5 reps; a press (or variant thereof, i.e. military press, standard bench press, etc.), 5 sets of 3 - 5 reps. Now go home.
The workout I do with my buddy from work takes us about an hour to do, three times a week. We use kettlebell as well as regular barbells (no dumbbells at all). If it was just me, it might only take me 20 - 30 minutes (we do a fair share of gawking, chatting and laughing as we lift, so we waste a little time during the workout) at the most.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
M
MartialArtist
Guest
www.bodybuilding.com
Gives some indication on what your goals are. If you want mass, 3 sets of 8-12. If you want strength without gaining a lot of mass, 5-6 sets of 2-6 reps.
Size doesn't equal strength. To attain the two, you have two different training philosophies.
Gives some indication on what your goals are. If you want mass, 3 sets of 8-12. If you want strength without gaining a lot of mass, 5-6 sets of 2-6 reps.
Size doesn't equal strength. To attain the two, you have two different training philosophies.
P
progressivetactics
Guest
2 things to remember when reading those articles.
first is, who is benefiting by the article. Often, (probably not in this case) thereis a brand name involved, and it is a commercial for them. Xenadrine helped me loose 10000 pounds, blah blah blah. Even the "doctor report' adds are bogus because they are mini commericials for a certian drug. Becareful of those.
Second, Look at your magazine rack at any store. There is about 6 magazines, minimum, at every newstands about body building and health. If they all had the same story, how often can they sell copies? Every body type is different. Not everyone will react the same to 1 set theories, as others will. Some people need pain to gain....some people are genetic freaks who will gain it otherways!
I prefer the pain!!!!!!!!
:mst:
first is, who is benefiting by the article. Often, (probably not in this case) thereis a brand name involved, and it is a commercial for them. Xenadrine helped me loose 10000 pounds, blah blah blah. Even the "doctor report' adds are bogus because they are mini commericials for a certian drug. Becareful of those.
Second, Look at your magazine rack at any store. There is about 6 magazines, minimum, at every newstands about body building and health. If they all had the same story, how often can they sell copies? Every body type is different. Not everyone will react the same to 1 set theories, as others will. Some people need pain to gain....some people are genetic freaks who will gain it otherways!
I prefer the pain!!!!!!!!
:mst:
