karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
In my TSD school, I changed when I got there, or I had just the dobahk pants on and a t-shirt. I changed after class.
My TKD school, we are NOT allowed to be in the dojang with half a uniform. You have to come to class dressed or change in front of others in a large dressing room ..... NOT! The men and women are seperated of course, but I will change in front of no one except my man hehehehehe
I change before I go. If I have to go to the store (usually after class), I throw a long shirt over my uniform, and/or take my belt off. If someone says something about the uniform, I just tell them that I'm a beginner (the reason for taking my belt off).
But then again, some people ask me questions about TKD wanting to try it because of my uniform
My TKD school, we are NOT allowed to be in the dojang with half a uniform. You have to come to class dressed or change in front of others in a large dressing room ..... NOT! The men and women are seperated of course, but I will change in front of no one except my man hehehehehe
I change before I go. If I have to go to the store (usually after class), I throw a long shirt over my uniform, and/or take my belt off. If someone says something about the uniform, I just tell them that I'm a beginner (the reason for taking my belt off).
But then again, some people ask me questions about TKD wanting to try it because of my uniform
V
vincefuess
Guest
I typically change into and out of my uniform at school. One time I didn't, though- and my wife called me on my cell phone to stop at Wal-Mart on the way home. It was WAY cold, and I was sweaty, so there was no way I was gonna walk across the parking lot into the store in my pants and soaking wet tanktop- so I had to pretty much wear my full uniform (sans belt) into Wal-Mart. I got alot of looks, and was I was very self-conscious, but no one said anything. I doubt I would do it again unless it was an emergency though.
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
Hey what about BDU's Gou? I think the russians prefer the blue ones. Must remind them of the icy siberia waters.
:asian:
G
GouRonin
Guest
Those Russians are crazy. I tell them that all the time. Ha ha ha!But seriously. Some do wear the military clothing. Not me. When others are listening to barking of a lot of dogs, I just worry about the growling of one.
W
WaterCircleHarmony
Guest
Wearing dobok pants is really cool to me. i think it actually looks good! not that i'm vain or any thing. (they just feel so comfortable.)
L
LanceWildcat1
Guest
We wear our uniforms, without belts, to class, mainly do to the fact that we have only one small bathroom to change in! We don't wear our belts outside class, however.
Lance Hyatt
S
SolidTiger
Guest
I don't know it really depends.....
Thank You
SolidTiger
"Martial arts don't have to be practice in secrete anymore,this is
not ancient Japan"
Thank You
SolidTiger
"Martial arts don't have to be practice in secrete anymore,this is
not ancient Japan"
OP
OP
Shinzu
Guest
either way i only wear my uniform during class. after class i change back into regular clothes.
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
First, and this might be viewed as just being picky, but the commonly used term "gi" is wholly inappropriate... It is my feeling that if you are going to use a language other than your native tongue, or even if you are going to simply incorporate a few words from another language into your own, you should use them properly...
If you are referring to the uniform that is commonly worn for Japanese/Okinawan martial arts in Japanese, then the proper term is "undogi" or simply "dogi" (pronounced "oon-dough-gee" or "dough-gee").
Of course, there is always that option to not use a language you don't speak at all, much less properly, when describing things, whatever your reason...
Second, at least in Japan, it is a no-no to wear your uniform, whatever component part you want to speak about, in public. You bring it with you to class, change, attend class, change, and go home.
As far as the previously mentioned "custom" of wearing the belt around your neck instead of around your waist, that does not mitigate the fact that you are still wearing the uniform. I have lived in Japan for only 3 1/2 years (much shorter than many others that I know), but I have yet to see a gaggle of folks wandering through the train station en route to their dojo costumed in their training attire...
As for Chinese style "uniforms," it is important to remember that the baggy pants and button up jacket are nothing more than stylized copies of commonly worn street clothes. It isn't necessarily against "custom" to wear such a get up in public, though you may well get more than a few stares...
As for being unable to enter a training hall without a proper uniform? Not sure I agree or disagree with that, given that if the changing rooms are in the back of the training hall, you would have to enter the training hall to access the changing rooms... Kind of makes having them in the first place a little pointless. I can understand not allowing people to attend class unless they are in the proper training attire (whatever that may be), but being unable to physically be in the training hall without a uniform of some sort seems a bit harsh...
I totally disagree with that... I suppose it comes from being in the military, but we have certain rules that apply to what is worn and when. It is inappropriate to wear certain types of clothing at certain times or places - you don't wear your physical fitness uniform to the dining facility, you don't wear spandex clothing that is overly revealing anywhere other than the gym, etc. A boy scout uniform, in my opinion, should be worn only for the boy scout function, but if you had to go to the local convenient store on the way, no worries... A dogi, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. It may be a uniform, but it has a different symbolism that I think is more akin to an altarboy's robes than a boy scout uniform.
I would have to agree with Fly when he says:
Gambarimasu.
:samurai: :samurai:
If you are referring to the uniform that is commonly worn for Japanese/Okinawan martial arts in Japanese, then the proper term is "undogi" or simply "dogi" (pronounced "oon-dough-gee" or "dough-gee").
Of course, there is always that option to not use a language you don't speak at all, much less properly, when describing things, whatever your reason...
Second, at least in Japan, it is a no-no to wear your uniform, whatever component part you want to speak about, in public. You bring it with you to class, change, attend class, change, and go home.
As far as the previously mentioned "custom" of wearing the belt around your neck instead of around your waist, that does not mitigate the fact that you are still wearing the uniform. I have lived in Japan for only 3 1/2 years (much shorter than many others that I know), but I have yet to see a gaggle of folks wandering through the train station en route to their dojo costumed in their training attire...
As for Chinese style "uniforms," it is important to remember that the baggy pants and button up jacket are nothing more than stylized copies of commonly worn street clothes. It isn't necessarily against "custom" to wear such a get up in public, though you may well get more than a few stares...
As for being unable to enter a training hall without a proper uniform? Not sure I agree or disagree with that, given that if the changing rooms are in the back of the training hall, you would have to enter the training hall to access the changing rooms... Kind of makes having them in the first place a little pointless. I can understand not allowing people to attend class unless they are in the proper training attire (whatever that may be), but being unable to physically be in the training hall without a uniform of some sort seems a bit harsh...
I totally disagree with that... I suppose it comes from being in the military, but we have certain rules that apply to what is worn and when. It is inappropriate to wear certain types of clothing at certain times or places - you don't wear your physical fitness uniform to the dining facility, you don't wear spandex clothing that is overly revealing anywhere other than the gym, etc. A boy scout uniform, in my opinion, should be worn only for the boy scout function, but if you had to go to the local convenient store on the way, no worries... A dogi, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. It may be a uniform, but it has a different symbolism that I think is more akin to an altarboy's robes than a boy scout uniform.
I would have to agree with Fly when he says:
Gambarimasu.
:samurai: :samurai:
I
islandtime
Guest
.......................................................................................
I agre with most everyone about not wearing belts except in class. I keep mine in my bag or around my neck untill I get to class After class the belt and top are removed .. My daughter wears her total uniform including belt to class and has t shirt and pants on for the trip home..
The people that go into WallMart with kids in tow in full uniform do not have a clue that they are disrespecting the art and usualy the kids don't have a say so.. If the kids are well behaved it is a credit if not they are just being kids.
Gene Gabel :asian:
I
islandtime
Guest
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Well, given that I am from the USA, I am more than familiar with the common usage American martial arts folk give for certain terms, and more than familiar (being from the Midwest) with the American attitude toward foreigners that don't speak English, or speak it improperly. I grew up hearing neighbors, relatives, etc., commenting on how immigrants were such a pain because they didn't speak English, or that what English they spoke was spoken so poorly that they still couldn't be understood properly.
Having been in the Army for a few years, and having served overseas more than once, I am also familiar with the military social microcosm, and the way military personnel and their dependent family members get uptight when overseas and confronted with foreign languages they are not willing to attempt to learn.
So I am sorry that you feel I am being too picky. Perhaps for some I am. I expect my fellow Americans to speak English better than they do, since it is their mother tongue, but that is asking too much some times. I suppose it is asking even more for them to show a little respect to a foreign language and simply attempt to use what few words they may know properly and in correct context.
If I were to return to the US and speak "Japanglish" (as many of my friends here in Japan do, having mixed a good degree of both languages together), I would no doubt be greeted with contempt and anger for failing to speak proper English on American soil. I am doing nothing different in my concern for proper use of foreign terms, but with American "self expression" concerns being so foremost in some people's minds, they feel they can dispense with consideration and do as they like...
Not really an issue of "respect," so much so as one of simple consideration. If I went around deliberately using English words incorrectly, it would begin to rankle with most people rather quickly. If I said that I was just "expressing myself" in a manner that suited my mood, I would still be told to speak correctly. Am I really asking anything so much different?
I'd have to disagree with you on that one... Most of the people I have had experience with haven't the first clue of the proper use of the foreign language terms in their styles, regardless of their country of origin. As the USA is a monolingual society (even though a huge diversity in languages exists in the US, there are few people outside of ethnically dense communities that are functionally multi-lingual, as compared to other countries where multi-lingualism is a norm), there seems to be a xenophobia for most people when it comes to attempting to use another language properly - they seek excuses not to, rather than expending a little effort to.
Again, sorry that we disagree. If folks are going to presume to act as if they speak words from another language, I would think they would want to speak them properly... In Japanese, as an example, only a matter of tone separates "map" from "vagina." Might be a good idea to know the difference...
Gambarimasu.
:samurai: :samurai:
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
I was told recently that the U.S was deliberately "dumbing down" the english language so it was more phonetically correct so it was easier to learn (for people that can't learn I guess). An example is it is supposedly ok to spell night as NITE and on bank statements they spell chequing account as CHECKING account. Is this true? Anyone know for sure? Or is this just Canadian propoganda we like to spread around to make us feel superior to Americans?
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Clearly no-one here does Judo. After a practice your judogi would be so sweaty you'd be embarassed to walk out the door.
Besides the sweat, the judogi to me is so very functional, what with your opponent spending all lesson trying to rip it off your back, that it sort of loses any spirituality it may have had.
Besides the sweat, the judogi to me is so very functional, what with your opponent spending all lesson trying to rip it off your back, that it sort of loses any spirituality it may have had.
I don't have any definitive response. Frankly, I think the general population is getting dumber and a classmate told me she found some books on the topic saying the same thing. So I wouldn't be too surprised if they were planning or trying to allow misspellings. Man, I wish I had a link to that bit I've seen about changing spelling. It starts off perfectly normal then talks about making changes to the spelling, then immediately procedes to do so. By the time you get to the end, it looks nothing like normal.
It's funny, maybe you can find it or something similar on a web search. Anyway, "nite" for "night" has as far as I know always been considered improper. "Check" for "cheque" though has always been the way I've spelled it. I think that's always been accepted here. I thought "check" vs. "cheque" was just one of those American/British English differences like "color" and "colour".To get a bit more on topic, I'd agree that you should be trying to use foreign language words properly. However, there is some practicality in altering things so that everyone knows what you're talking about. It's a bit of a toss-up I guess. You want to be correct, but also be understood. So what do you do? *shrug* Just a thought.
B
Bushido
Guest
Wearing the uniform outside is childish and immature. MA is not a game.
-Bushido
-Bushido
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Not sure about books written on the subject, but it has always been my belief that in a society where teachers were paid peanuts and entertainers were paid top dollar to be superficial and false, something was amiss.
I heard of an international study done years back comparing the US, several European countries, and Japan. On the science and math scores, Japan topped out. The US was on the bottom. On the psychological portion, when asked about personal feelings, the US all responded that they felt like they were "#1." Japan was on the bottom of that part.
Go figure.
And that was all my post was about... If you are using a language, whatever language that is, you should use it properly. Period. To do otherwise simply makes you look foolish.
I understand "technical shorthand" for martial artists. What I object to is when people begin to believe that shorthand is the actual language... I encounter that in my workplace as well, when people use buzzwords or acronyms but have no clue as to the real meanings...
Sorry to have a bug up my a$$ about this, but at least I am being picky about something that will make us all better in the long run.
:asian:
Gambarimasu.
:samurai: :samurai:
cdhall
Master Black Belt
I pretty much follow the customs I was taught and I know some of them were/are wrong, but unless I want to divorce my instructor, I have to do it his way.
Some examples of how I was initially taught (and what has since been corrected):
1. The belt is not to be worn outside the studio.
2. Your belt should not touch the ground unless you are wearing it. When you put it on, you need to be sure that it does not touch the floor and it should be stored so that it does not touch the floor.
3. The Japanese/Okinawan pajamas/underwear we train in are called a "Gi." I was not told that this was an abbreviation... it is what I was told it is called, and it is what my teacher calls it. I always assumed that there were many proper terms, like our movements, depending on where you learned/got it from.
4. In my original school, we had bathrooms, but no "locker rooms" and you were Required to report to the school in uniform. You were not allowed to dress/undress there. I believe this may be a Commercial, US adaptation. Cheaper rent for studio without locker rooms for example. Actually, in my first school we shared the bathroom with a Real Estate Office, so it wasn't even ours. My next school had changing rooms and I very often changed there. We have moved now and have only a bathroom, so it is again impractical to change at the studio and I wear my gi on my drive to class.
Other considerations:
I think it is also a US commercial school custom to wear your uniform outdoors, even with your belt as it is advertising for your instructor, studio... etc. So I would not be surprised to learn that some schools encourage this.
I personally wear my uniform (maybe we also call it that, I think I picked that up somewhere, maybe because of catalogs and how uniforms are ordered?) to and from class and often go to the store and often get comments like "where do you study, can I sign up?" So it is good advertising. "What style are you..." but I live 30mins from my school so I don't have many of these people actually go, but I get lots of questions like that. My gi is Black now so it only has a few patches, no school logo/address on the back and because it is Black I think many people think I'm a Black Belt... the conversations have always been friendly and I'm careful to be Extra low-key and respectful and polite when I'm in my gi. If I have to go to the store I will often change into another shirt if I can, but I don't always. I used to have a "belt" keychain that was given to me as a "motivator" so when I have my gi on in the store, you could see my brown belt keychain in my hand and I'd try to hide this.
My gi has almost always had a pocket on the pants, and I like wearing them, they are comfortable so I kind of treat them that way. I have considered buying an extra uniform or part of one to wear as clothing. The pants. Maybe also the jacket, but moreso the pants.
So I also agree with Matt that we should use the language correctly. The problem I think is that many Martial Artists have studied multiple arts and have lineages to Okinawa, Japan, Korea and/or China, India and other places so the terms have become greatly confused. Since I'm in EPAK I use the terms Mr. Parker prescribed, but I don't think he prescribed them all. I don't know what he called the uniform... but when I took French and Spanish and Latin of course it was very important to use the language correctly. Although in some cases we only knew the proper spelling and not the pronunciation. In our case in MA, I don't think most of us know the proper spellings or even the alphabet particularly in the case of Chinese and Japanese. I know there are multiple types of each by the way.
OK. I think most of our "problems" as outlined by Mr. Stone are that commercial schools need advertising, compromise the Art to pay the rent, and have such a diverse background that they don't even know what is correct. I chimed in to relate why I do what I do. I think that was 2000 words ago
so I'll shut up now. I do want to say that I agree with Mr. Stone on many points.
:asian:
Some examples of how I was initially taught (and what has since been corrected):
1. The belt is not to be worn outside the studio.
2. Your belt should not touch the ground unless you are wearing it. When you put it on, you need to be sure that it does not touch the floor and it should be stored so that it does not touch the floor.
3. The Japanese/Okinawan pajamas/underwear we train in are called a "Gi." I was not told that this was an abbreviation... it is what I was told it is called, and it is what my teacher calls it. I always assumed that there were many proper terms, like our movements, depending on where you learned/got it from.
4. In my original school, we had bathrooms, but no "locker rooms" and you were Required to report to the school in uniform. You were not allowed to dress/undress there. I believe this may be a Commercial, US adaptation. Cheaper rent for studio without locker rooms for example. Actually, in my first school we shared the bathroom with a Real Estate Office, so it wasn't even ours. My next school had changing rooms and I very often changed there. We have moved now and have only a bathroom, so it is again impractical to change at the studio and I wear my gi on my drive to class.
Other considerations:
I think it is also a US commercial school custom to wear your uniform outdoors, even with your belt as it is advertising for your instructor, studio... etc. So I would not be surprised to learn that some schools encourage this.
I personally wear my uniform (maybe we also call it that, I think I picked that up somewhere, maybe because of catalogs and how uniforms are ordered?) to and from class and often go to the store and often get comments like "where do you study, can I sign up?" So it is good advertising. "What style are you..." but I live 30mins from my school so I don't have many of these people actually go, but I get lots of questions like that. My gi is Black now so it only has a few patches, no school logo/address on the back and because it is Black I think many people think I'm a Black Belt... the conversations have always been friendly and I'm careful to be Extra low-key and respectful and polite when I'm in my gi. If I have to go to the store I will often change into another shirt if I can, but I don't always. I used to have a "belt" keychain that was given to me as a "motivator" so when I have my gi on in the store, you could see my brown belt keychain in my hand and I'd try to hide this.
My gi has almost always had a pocket on the pants, and I like wearing them, they are comfortable so I kind of treat them that way. I have considered buying an extra uniform or part of one to wear as clothing. The pants. Maybe also the jacket, but moreso the pants.
So I also agree with Matt that we should use the language correctly. The problem I think is that many Martial Artists have studied multiple arts and have lineages to Okinawa, Japan, Korea and/or China, India and other places so the terms have become greatly confused. Since I'm in EPAK I use the terms Mr. Parker prescribed, but I don't think he prescribed them all. I don't know what he called the uniform... but when I took French and Spanish and Latin of course it was very important to use the language correctly. Although in some cases we only knew the proper spelling and not the pronunciation. In our case in MA, I don't think most of us know the proper spellings or even the alphabet particularly in the case of Chinese and Japanese. I know there are multiple types of each by the way.
OK. I think most of our "problems" as outlined by Mr. Stone are that commercial schools need advertising, compromise the Art to pay the rent, and have such a diverse background that they don't even know what is correct. I chimed in to relate why I do what I do. I think that was 2000 words ago
so I'll shut up now. I do want to say that I agree with Mr. Stone on many points.:asian:
Directly from the handouts that I give my students.
WEAR OF THE UNIFORM
I. Uniform for Practice and Special Events
a. Students
i. Mudansha (white thru brown) will wear a complete white Karate-gi (pants, jacket, obi and white t-shirt for females) for practice, testing and events (ceremonies, tournaments, etc).
1. Yudansha (Shodan or higher)
a. Testing for Promotion – White karate-gi
b. Practice or any other event – Black karate-gi
ii. Visitors, regardless of rank, may wear the uniform of their own school.
b. Instructors
i. Instructors may wear either a complete black or white karate-gi for practices.
ii. Instructors will wear a complete black karate-gi for all other special events
c. Proper wear of the Karate-gi
i. It should be clean and in good repair at the beginning of all practices
ii. The jacket sleeves may be rolled to mid forearm but must be even and below the elbow
iii. Patches
1. The school patch will be on the left, over the heart
2. The United States flag will be placed on the right shoulder
3. The okuiri patch (fist) will be on the left shoulder
4. The Mokuroku patch (style) will be on the left, under the school patch
iv. The Obi (Belt)
1. The Obi will be double wrapped and overlapped (not crossed) around the waist and tied in a square-knot near the navel.
2. The ends should be of equal length, with the promotion stripes (white thru brown) or Dan stripes (Shodan or higher) on the left.
v. When and where
1. The complete karate-gi is not to be worn outside of the Dojo or the location of special event (i.e. Walmart after class)
2. Students will either bring their karate-gi with them and change or it will be stored in a locker or other facility, if available
3. It is acceptable to wear the karate-gi pants with a t-shirt or sweatshirt without the jacket or belt when in transit from home to practice or event.
4. When running outside as part of class, it is recommended that students bring a change of clothes and shoes for running.
vi. Treatment of the Obi (belt)
1. The Obi should never be:
a. Washed
b. Wadded-up
c. Drug on the floor
General Rule – If it isn’t being worn, it should be folded up properly
WEAR OF THE UNIFORM
I. Uniform for Practice and Special Events
a. Students
i. Mudansha (white thru brown) will wear a complete white Karate-gi (pants, jacket, obi and white t-shirt for females) for practice, testing and events (ceremonies, tournaments, etc).
1. Yudansha (Shodan or higher)
a. Testing for Promotion – White karate-gi
b. Practice or any other event – Black karate-gi
ii. Visitors, regardless of rank, may wear the uniform of their own school.
b. Instructors
i. Instructors may wear either a complete black or white karate-gi for practices.
ii. Instructors will wear a complete black karate-gi for all other special events
c. Proper wear of the Karate-gi
i. It should be clean and in good repair at the beginning of all practices
ii. The jacket sleeves may be rolled to mid forearm but must be even and below the elbow
iii. Patches
1. The school patch will be on the left, over the heart
2. The United States flag will be placed on the right shoulder
3. The okuiri patch (fist) will be on the left shoulder
4. The Mokuroku patch (style) will be on the left, under the school patch
iv. The Obi (Belt)
1. The Obi will be double wrapped and overlapped (not crossed) around the waist and tied in a square-knot near the navel.
2. The ends should be of equal length, with the promotion stripes (white thru brown) or Dan stripes (Shodan or higher) on the left.
v. When and where
1. The complete karate-gi is not to be worn outside of the Dojo or the location of special event (i.e. Walmart after class)
2. Students will either bring their karate-gi with them and change or it will be stored in a locker or other facility, if available
3. It is acceptable to wear the karate-gi pants with a t-shirt or sweatshirt without the jacket or belt when in transit from home to practice or event.
4. When running outside as part of class, it is recommended that students bring a change of clothes and shoes for running.
vi. Treatment of the Obi (belt)
1. The Obi should never be:
a. Washed
b. Wadded-up
c. Drug on the floor
General Rule – If it isn’t being worn, it should be folded up properly
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