Weaknesses of Thai-Boxing.

[Giorgio]

I think that in any martial arts style, its weaknesses are by definition dictated by the rules to which it adheres. For example, striking is not allowed in judo, and thus judo practicioners do not learn how to guard against striking. Muay thai is much more comprehensive in terms of allowable techniques, but as it does adhere to rules, it still has several important weaknesses:

-joint locking techniques, as found in jujitsu or BJJ
-groin attacks, or attacks to the eyes
-groundwork
-defense against weapons
-defense against groups

just my personal perspective

 

[onibaku]

muay thai's only weakness is the use of gloves in competitions. if you use punches in a fight, you will have cuts and bruises because you train with gloves. your fist aren't tough because you train with gloves

 

[Danny T]

From a strictly stand up point of view ( no grappling or self defense sorry ) what would you say are the weaknesses of Muay Thai from a strictly competition point of view?(full contact rules)
by this I mean in a style vs. style competition, if you were to go against a Thai boxer what would be the obvious ( or not ) weakness that you can think of?

This question also goes out to practicing thai boxers, is there anything over the years of learning have you found a weakness that you thought might need to be addressed?

If you are addressing this as a traditionally trained muay thai fighter for the ring, there are a number of areas of weakness. Of course some fighters have also understood this and have done some modifications to prevent those weakness.

The most important I feel is from stance. The stance used by most thai fighters is a much more squared up stance than western fighters utilize. This stance exposes the groin and lessens the amount of upper body rotation when punching thereby lessing the power of the rear hand punch. Also when punching the thai fighter doesn't transfer as much weight over the front foot as the western fighter. This because they use the punches to setup the use of other weapons and also their main counter against the rear kick is the front leg shield with the shin. Transfering weight onto the frt foot prevents this shield. Their elbows are feared and though it does happen fights usually do not end by knock out by elbow. Again the elbow isn't not as powerful as could be due to the lack of weight shift however the elbow create terrible cuts which can then be exploited. Many western fighters have adopted a bit more of a boxing stance and utilize more rotation of the upper body for much more powerful punches. This however slows the delivery of their rear kick which then allows for easier counters. We work 12 counters against the rear kick.

Danny T

 

[searcher]

onibaku makes a good, and often overlooked, point. Many boxers and Thai-boxers have the same problem with their hands.

The only weaknesses I can think of is a somewhat lack of variety in the number of techniques. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I have alwasy thought working a few more techniques in would be helpful. JMO.

 

[Thunder Foot]

This is a very tough one to answer! However, I beeive that you are defining Muay Thai as being in the ring, and most other Sport froms of Martial Arts are practiced. In this case, I would agree that it definitely varies from camp to camp, as previously stated. Styles vary GREATLY. The bobbing and weaving aspect, I personally don't think is a good idea because of the vulnerability to knees. Though I have seen quite a few Thai fighters utilizing the slip more often, with I think is a safe way to avoid a punch or kick, while still ina guarded stance.

Honestly, the only thing I can really think of in ring terms, would be a lack of lateral movement. Most Thai fighters fight and in/out type of game. Maybe use of angles might provide for more opportunities, but it really depends on the fight strategy. Nice thread Odin! I'm really going to have to ponder on this for awhile, hehe... might help me patch up any holes in my game. :asian:

 

[Slihn]

Having trained muay thai, there were habits I didn't particularly like that I exploited in others.

1) for some reason, many (not all) MT fighters rise up on the ball of their foot when throwing round kicks. This leave many unbalanced and open for attack if you only step into their kick.

2) The absolute exploitable weakness is the drop of the hand during round kicks. If the MT fighter is throwing a right round kick, he'll drop his right hand down behind his butt cheek. If your timing is good, you can step into the kick, effectively neutralizing its damage, and deliver a near unblockable right cross or left hook of your own.

There has alway been a big controvery about dropping your hand when throwing shin kicks . In the Traditional Style Thai Boxing they swing there arms doward to create more torque (which it does) , but thay makes it harder to counter an on coming attack.

In the Dutch Style they reach across the opposite side instead od dropping their hands to protect against the counter , for better balance , and to be able to lunch an follow up attack of their own.

 

[Slihn]

i dont think that you can ever "neutralize" a kick by stepping into it... sorry

I think what he means is that you can "jam" a kick if you step into it correctly .

 

[USP45CT]

hmm id say the only weakness i can think of is the very farthest reach of someones kick. Other arts really focus in getting complete extension on a kick and it's not as necessary in MT so i'd say that would be about it. Even then its kinda hazy.

 

[drak_ool]

1) for some reason, many (not all) MT fighters rise up on the ball of their foot when throwing round kicks. [end quote]

dude, seriously how long have you trained muay thai? you HAVE to rise on the ball of your foot to throw a kick. this is one of the basics of thai boxing.

 

[TongPo]

Every martial art has its strengths and weaknesses. It would be difficult to pin point the exact weakness of any martial art because each one will vary with different styles and techniques. Some focus more on kicking and striking, others with joint lock manipulation, throwing etc. I think the only weakness in any fighter is his own personal struggle to improve on one’s areas that are “weak”.
Instead of trying to analyze how to counter a Thai kick with a bunch of techniques you don’t know maybe analyze how the Thai fighter counters a Thai kick. Sweeping the other leg, blocking with the shin use the momentum of the kick to sweep, etc. Thai fighting greatest strength is powerful striking and the ability to absorb hard strikes. If you think that you can come in with a punch to counter a Thai kick more power to you, you’re brave. You better knock him out with that punch or you’re going to get clinched and kneed or worse.
Some of you know what you are talking about (in reference to Thai boxing) and others have not a clue and have never even been in a fighting situation. Opinions are great but acting like you are a pro in an martial art you don’t train in is just ignorant.

 

[Harley_Ninja237]

so be honest, i cannot think of any weaknesses. Maybe the only weakness is that there isnt much head movement (i.e Bobbing and weaving) in Muay Thai. Therefore, your opponent can target your head easier than other arts such as Boxing (where bobbing and weaving are very common).

I asked about bob and weave to my muay thai teacher...
bad idea,they can get you and knee you right in the face while youre moving youre head

 

[TommyMT]

Having trained muay thai, there were habits I didn't particularly like that I exploited in others.

1) for some reason, many (not all) MT fighters rise up on the ball of their foot when throwing round kicks. This leave many unbalanced and open for attack if you only step into their kick.

2) The absolute exploitable weakness is the drop of the hand during round kicks. If the MT fighter is throwing a right round kick, he'll drop his right hand down behind his butt cheek. If your timing is good, you can step into the kick, effectively neutralizing its damage, and deliver a near unblockable right cross or left hook of your own.

I havent been training very long but from what Ive been taught if you tried to step into a round kick I can just fold my leg and meet you with a knee.
Were taught to pump the hand down and back during the initial rotation of the kick and get it back up as the strike lands. I dont know if Im explaining it correctly but I think it would be very difficult to step into this very small quick window and perform a decent strike.

Also if your stepping all the way up to my thigh, you don't have much room to perform a powerful cross as you mention maybe a good uppercut, elbow , or hook,but that might be hard to land on an opponent who's body is sideways and has their head leaned back

I dont know how accurate this is, its just what comes to mind from what Ive been taught.

 

[Odin]

I asked about bob and weave to my muay thai teacher...
bad idea,they can get you and knee you right in the face while youre moving youre head

#

Depends on how you bop and weave...do so vertically, using your legs more so then leaning over.

 

[Thunder Foot]

I don't personally like Bobbing in Muay. I can get just as much evasion out of a slip, rather than a bob... and a slip is a much shorter movement.

As far as weaknesses of Muay Thai posted by Boomer...
For your 1st point, most Nuk Muays rise on the ball at the height of their kick. Stepping into the kcik wouldn't seem to allow them to reach the height, thus not rising on the ball. All that aside, I don't really see how one is THAT much off balanced compared to a flat foot, when the Nuk Muay brings the kick right back. Maybe if someone held their leg in the air for continous kicks or something, but not really in Muay's case. People have thought they were walking into my kick, and walked righinto my knee.... no more off balanced than any other situation really.

For your 2nd point... that hand position is just a personal preference. Not everyone drops their hand behind their butt as you described. And these scenarios you describe are really "he say she say" moment, because from my experience, its not so easy to simply walk into a kick if youo're fighting a good Nuk Muay. This aside as well, its going to very from person to person, I don't see this as a "Muay Thai" as a whole, weakness.