We must protect ourselves from the voter fraud problem we do not have!

[Bill Mattocks]

As to evil? There are a great many things in this world that are truly evil, voter i.d.s are not one of them.

Attempting to suppress voting is not only evil, it may be the fundamental evil for a democratic republic. It's so wrong that people who do it should arrested and tried as traitors.

If a person wants their own party to win or their own cause advanced so much that they would stoop to attempting to stop other citizens from voting by trickery and skullduggery, they are not fit to live among us.

Loving liberty requires respecting the choices others make when voting, whether one agrees with them or not. When the agenda becomes more important than liberty itself, that agenda has become corrupt and evil.

In such ways, despots are created. In such ways, freedom is curtailed. In such ways, patriots become traitors.

There are worse criminals out there. But that's a weak, weak, excuse to do the wrong thing. Yeah, there are people out there who rob banks. So it's OK for me steal a little bit since there are worse crooks? No.

 

[WC_lun]

LOL So a malfunctioning machine is the democrats plot to cheat the election. They aren't very good at gaming the system I guess...certainly not in comparrison to the GOP's attempts at suppression. Billc, you are trying to defend the undefendable. This doesn't excuse any attempts by any democrats to rig voting. Right now though, it is a concerted effort by the GOP as a whole. That the party you support is using such tactics should have you mad as hell, instead of just trying to ignore it and shifting blame to the democrats. It truly is a vile tactic and unAmerican.

 

[billc]

I realized that part of the problem is that the article cited above is from motherjones.com, that is the first problem. The more important point, taken from the actual article is that voter i.d. was already checked during the primary election, so anyone who voted then, and anyone who will vote in the general election will have to show voter i.d. anyway, but if they don't have it they can still vote...

Ron Ruman, a spokesman for the Pennsylvania's Department of State, denies that the advertisements are misleading. "In the primary all voters were asked for ID, and they will be again in November," he says, though he acknowledges that people will be allowed to cast regular ballots—ID or no ID. He explained that the department targeted urban locations to get the most bang for the buck, and because "there might be a larger number of people there who might not have a driver's license."

Sooo, this is still not voter suppression or racism. Only more democrat magic can make it so...the same magic that turned the party of racism and slavery, the democrat party, the party of minorities.

This is what voter suppression actually looks like...democrats with clubs standing outside of polling places...



Again, the real selling point to voter i.d.s...the President of the United States had to show a photo i.d. to vote.

 

[billc]

Now this is voter suppression, and once again, the democrats are doing it...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Oregon-Voters-We-Will-Know-Who-You-Voted-For

[h=2]Voters in Oregon are receiving a mailer from the AFL-CIO that could imply their votes in the upcoming election will not be secret. [/h]"Your voting history is a matter of public record," the mailer says on the cover of a trifold pamphlet, which lists the union's positions and its endorsed state and local candidates inside.
In fact, a voter's precise vote is secret, though the fact that they have returned a ballot in Oregon's mail-in elections would be a matter of public record.
The reverse cover of the pamphlet features an historic photograph of a union strike, in which the worker in front is carrying a poster that reads: "DO NOT CROSS OUR PICKET LINE."

 

[WC_lun]

Okay, so the person or persons responsible for the mailer need to be prosecuted, just like ANYONE trying to supress the vote or commit voter fraud. In this case they might even be able to get them for mail fraud. What I don't understand is how you can just ignore what your own party is doing? If Democrats do something negative, you are all about linking all kinds of crap and attacking as great as you can. When it is the party you belong to doing something negative, you play the Wizard of Oz, "Ignore the man behind the curtain! He's not suppressing the vote!" Its crap. You are an American before you are a republican or democrat...at least that is how i thought it was supposed to work.

 

[billc]

I don't ignore it and like you, if they are caught committing voter fraud or doing something wrong they need to be arrested and put in jail. I don't want anyone suppressing anyone's vote. I don't think voter i.d. laws are suppressing anyone's vote and will actually help to protect the vote from democrats who cheat, especially with all the examples I have given on this thread of actual techniques used by democrats to cheat.

 

[WC_lun]

You are willfully blind and will seemingly remain so as long as there seems to be an advantage for your "team."

 

[punisher73]

There needs to be a better system in place for removing voters from the database after they are dead. In Michigan, for example, they were contacted by the DOJ because we have 102% of our state population registered to vote, and around 15-20 counties that have more registered voters than people living there (stats may be off slightly, trying to go from memory).

I think this would be a big step in cutting any alleged fraud down without disenfranchising voters.


Here is an article that discusses some of the numbers and reasons.
http://watchdoglabs.org/blog/2012/1...d-500000-voters-between-2000-and-2010-census/

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There needs to be a better system in place for removing voters from the database after they are dead. In Michigan, for example, they were contacted by the DOJ because we have 102% of our state population registered to vote, and around 15-20 counties that have more registered voters than people living there (stats may be off slightly, trying to go from memory).

I think this would be a big step in cutting any alleged fraud down without disenfranchising voters.


Here is an article that discusses some of the numbers and reasons.
http://watchdoglabs.org/blog/2012/1...d-500000-voters-between-2000-and-2010-census/

Now, the question is, do more than 100% of registered voters vote?

But yes, when a person dies, their name should be removed from the voter registration rolls in an automated fashion.

But again, let's say that some naughty person is trying to steal the vote of a dead person. They must know who that dead person is. They must know where their polling place is. They must obtain a voter ID (non photo) and in Michigan a photo ID as well in the name of that dead person. Then they must go stand in line for hours or however long it takes to cast that vote. I don't see this as being a massive risk, haven't heard of it being a problem, and the photo ID that Michigan requires would not have changed that in any case; you get your non-photo voter ID by going to the SOS and registering, then it comes by mail to the registered address of the voter. So if they could and would go to all that trouble, they already have all they need to get a fake photo ID from the state also.

These are just excuses used to try to intimidate Democratic voters into not voting. Nothing more.

The billboards in PA absolutely prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. The issue isn't really even arguable anymore. No rational human being can deny what they are.

 

[punisher73]

Now, the question is, do more than 100% of registered voters vote?

But yes, when a person dies, their name should be removed from the voter registration rolls in an automated fashion.

But again, let's say that some naughty person is trying to steal the vote of a dead person. They must know who that dead person is. They must know where their polling place is. They must obtain a voter ID (non photo) and in Michigan a photo ID as well in the name of that dead person. Then they must go stand in line for hours or however long it takes to cast that vote. I don't see this as being a massive risk, haven't heard of it being a problem, and the photo ID that Michigan requires would not have changed that in any case; you get your non-photo voter ID by going to the SOS and registering, then it comes by mail to the registered address of the voter. So if they could and would go to all that trouble, they already have all they need to get a fake photo ID from the state also.

These are just excuses used to try to intimidate Democratic voters into not voting. Nothing more.

The billboards in PA absolutely prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. The issue isn't really even arguable anymore. No rational human being can deny what they are.

You are correct, I should have stated more clearly that the removal of dead people or people who are no longer in state would cut down on alleged fraud, in that it would remove that argument about dead people voting. I'm sure you have heard stories about how many "dead people" vote in Detroit. But, to my knowledge I have never actually seen facts about this or a list of dead voters. By removing them from the data base this argument can't be made anymore.

 

[punisher73]

I don't know if this has been posted yet or not, but here is a breakdown of voter id laws by state.
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx

 

[billc]

Yes, and the cheating continues...

http://www.rgj.com/article/20121101...bles-Nevada-other-swing-states?nclick_check=1

The Republican National Committee sent letters to election officials in Nevada and three other swing states on Thursday alleging “a significant number of cases” where voting machines cast ballots for President Barack Obama when the vote was intended for his Republican challenger, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

 

[billc]

This is voter intimidation, hollywood style, during another election...I hadn't even heard of this one till today...

http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/11/03/danny-devitos-union-thugs-and-tuesdays-vote/

I first experienced the rising thugocracy watching a famous Hollywood celebrity lead a rally where Republican voters were intimidated from entering the polls to vote. I was in West Palm Beach, Florida, in 2004 at the early voting site on Military Trail. There, a giant purple SEIU rally stood in front of the single entrance. Danny DeVito led the mob.
I watched Bush voter after Bush voter (known by bumperstickers) at DeVito’s rally suffer identification by a SEIU member posted in the parking lot. As each voters exited his car, the SEIU thug pointed and followed the person, announcing to the mob that he was a voter for Bush. The mob made passage difficult to impossible.

I was not alone in watching DeVito’s SEIU mob block the polls. National Review had this to say at the time:

We’re already witnessing the organized bullying of voters in the hotly contested swing state of Florida. According to a disturbing report in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel: “With early voting taking place in busy public places like City Halls and libraries, voters are voicing complaints of being blocked by political mobs, or being singled out for their political views. Others say they have been grabbed, screamed at and cursed by political partisans of all stripes.”
“Special-interest groups are trying to whip everybody into a frenzy and get everybody upset,” LePore said. “Campaigns and their observers are confronting the workers and the voters. Things have gotten nasty and ugly.” “LePore said campaign workers followed voters into polling places and handed out literature next to the voting machines. Other voters standing in line were told the machines don’t work and that they should vote absentee.”
Actors Danny DeVito and Rhea Perlman led a rally at the entrance to another polling location, prompting poll watcher Lawrence Gottfried to intervene. “I said, ‘Look Mr. DeVito, I’m a big fan of yours and Rhea’s, but you are blocking the entrance.
​

I was there. The account in National Review is accurate. Danny DeVito egged on union thugs who were preventing Republicans from entering the polls.

And from the beginning of the article...

We can learn a lot from Democrats by what they oppose. While Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings tells us there is no vote fraud, fellow Maryland congressional candidate Wendy Rosen is committing federal felonies byvoting both in Maryland and Florida. While the NAACP is leading the charge against photo voter identification, Lessadolla Sowers from the NAACP heads off to prison for voting for dead voters. While Brian Moran, Virginia’s Democrat chair, rails against voter integrity, his nephew Pat is caught on camera plotting the use of forged documents at the polls to help President Obama.
Indeed, we learn much by what they oppose. It certainly explains their existential opposition to True the Vote’straining of the poll-watching army on Tuesday.


But this year, their hypocrisy has reached a diabolical crescendo. The Obama campaign has sought to unleash law enforcement officials across the United States against law-abiding citizens who exercised state and federal laws to clean up the voter rolls and monitor the polls.
It is bad enough when Eric Holder refuses to enforce laws to maintain the voter rolls. It is even worse when his political buddies like Obama campaign lawyer Robert Bauer try to intimidate people who clean up Holder’s mess by badgering state election officials.

 

[arnisador]

Meanwhile, in actual voter fraud news:

Investigators today arrested a Southern Nevada woman suspected of trying to vote twice this week at two different polling locations.
Roxanne Rubin was taken into custody as she arrived for work at the Riviera hotel-casino, investigators said. Rubin, 56, is a registered Republican

 

[billc]

Glad she was arrested, I hope the democrats cheating are arrested as well.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Meanwhile, in actual voter fraud news:

"When Rubin arrived at the second location, a poll worker conducted a routine database check and found Rubin had already voted."

Oh, look! I guess photo voter ID would not have stopped this abuse either, since the safeguards ALREADY IN PLACE did their job! Well, what a bummer.

Just another nail in the coffin of that tired argument that we need photo voter ID to prevent voter fraud; a solution we don't need for a problem we don't have.

 

[billc]

Yes, union thuggery and voter fraud, two complementary topics...and then add in illegal immigration for extra spice...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Them-With-Deportation-For-Not-Going-To-Polls

Two immigrants who are not citizens -- and thus not eligible to vote -- have accused a Nevada Culinary Union of registering them to vote and then threatening them with deportation if they did not go to the polls. Even worse, the immigrants say there are more like them who are illicitly registered and may be casting ballots in one of the most critical swing states in the 2012 election due to Nevada's lax voter identification laws that do not require voters to provide photo IDs or prove citizenship.

Glenn Cook, of the Las Vegas Review Journal, met with two immigrants who said Culinary Local 226 signed them up to vote. The immigrants told Cook "the Culinary official who registered them to vote didn't tell them what they were signing and didn't ask whether they were citizens" and "they trusted that the union official's request was routine, thought nothing of it and went about their work."
Once registered, these immigrants can vote because of Nevada's rather lax identification requirements.
As Cook notes:

In Nevada you never have to prove you're a citizen to register to vote or cast a ballot. Forget about showing government-issued photo identification at the polls, as several states now require. You don't have to show a photo ID at any point in the process. The immigrants I met could vote Tuesday just by showing a Culinary health insurance card and a power bill.
​

Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax told Cook all voters would need are documents proving identity and residence.
"Just like every other voter in Nevada, they will not be asked to prove citizenship," Lomax said.
Cook notes the Union officials visited one immigrant and made threats of deportation and said the immigration was in "so much trouble" for not having voted.

But, as Cook notes, even though one of the immigrants had filled out the paper work to be removed from the voter rolls, as of Friday, the immigrant's form was not among the registration cancellation forms the Clark County election office have received during the last month.
Cook notes that in Nevada, more identification is required for cashing a check than voting, and that needs to change to prevent such non-citizens from potentially tampering with close elections.
"We should ask every voter, upon registration, to prove citizenship, but we don't," Cook writes. "Instead, we have an honor system that's exceedingly easy to cheat and gives political parties and politically active groups a powerful incentive to break the law without much risk of being caught."

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This popped up in my facebook feed. No idea on the accuracy. Doesn't matter though, Romney owns the machine that's counting his votes right?

 

[arnisador]

Let's get some fact-checking going on this.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

On which part? Democrats voting multiple times, and after they've died, or Romney having some ownership and control over the polling machines that'll be counting the votes?

Does it matter? Obama won the election, by 3%.