We are getting a new master

[epi-do]

My dojang recently had a change of ownership. In the process, we lost our master, and will be getting a new one. Apparently, he is from Hawaii and will be flying in in a couple weeks to take a look at the school, meet with the new leadership, evaluate classes, etc. He currently has two schools in Hawaii, and here is his website. The school's leadership appears to be pretty excited about meeting with him and finding out what sort of changes he has in mind.

After looking at his website, I am going to wait and see what direction the school takes. I know there are growing pains associated with changes and I really don't want to jump to any conclusions. That being said, I really am not that excited about potentially having a camo belt in my future. I know there are much more important things about a school than what colors of belts they choose to use in their ranking system, but camo just seems so... well... cheesey.

I am sure there are others that have been through similar changes in their dojangs, so what words of advice, besides trying my best to keep an open mind, can you offer?

 

[Twin Fist]

it's ATA, get out now and find some REAL tae kwon do

sorry to sound rude, but its the truth

 

[Flying Crane]

I hope things work out well for you, and this change proves to be for the best.

That being said, I always find it a bit strange when a school is sold and the students are sort of sold right along with it. I guess it's selling a book of business, which is what the students are for the teacher.

Personally, I think that when a teacher stops teaching for whatever reason, at least if I was one of the students, I wouldn't just go along with a new teacher who bought the business. That might work for a grocery store changing ownership or something, but I see some problems with a martial arts teacher.

For me, I'd quit training and look for a new teacher of my own choice. That could possibly be the new teacher coming in, or it might be someone else entirely. But I would not just go along and be part of the package business that this guy just bought. I make my own decisions about who I train with. I'm not part of someone's book of business.

 

[Flying Crane]

I just perused the website, and have another comment or two.

First, it does indeed look like there is a camoflage belt in your future, if you choose to stay with the school.

Second, this is an openly Christian school, and it looks to me like he uses the school as a vehicle for teaching and spreading his religion. If you are in agreement with this and you don't mind being evangelized to, then that's OK. If you aren't interested in that kind of thing in your martial arts training, then it's time for you to leave.

At least he is open and honest about it on his website. It would be much worse if he made no mention of it and then started working in bible teachings on the sly or something.

For me, I have no room in my martial training for such things. My spiritual and religious life are my own business, and I would never train with someone who attempted to evangelize me thru martial training.

 

[epi-do]

Second, this is an openly Christian school, and it looks to me like he uses the school as a vehicle for teaching and spreading his religion.

This is one of my biggest concerns. The previous owner/master was a very religious man, and was very willing to talk about his beliefs with you if YOU chose to open the dialog. However, he never used class time to evangelize.

While this isn't the time/place for me to discuss my beliefs, let's just say I have some things to work through, and the last thing I want is to feel as if someone is pushing their beliefs onto me.

 

[d1jinx]

Be open, check it out. DONT SIGN ANYTHING. and shop around. There may be the right school for you next dorr or 20 minutes away. But you dont know if you dont look.

 

[epi-do]

it's ATA, get out now and find some REAL tae kwon do

sorry to sound rude, but its the truth

You don't sound rude, just to the point. :wink2: I asked for advice/opinions, so all are welcome to comment. And, anyway, I wouldn't expect your opinion to ever be sugar-coated. That just wouldn't be you.

 

[Rich Parsons]

My dojang recently had a change of ownership. In the process, we lost our master, and will be getting a new one. Apparently, he is from Hawaii and will be flying in in a couple weeks to take a look at the school, meet with the new leadership, evaluate classes, etc. He currently has two schools in Hawaii, and here is his website. The school's leadership appears to be pretty excited about meeting with him and finding out what sort of changes he has in mind.

After looking at his website, I am going to wait and see what direction the school takes. I know there are growing pains associated with changes and I really don't want to jump to any conclusions. That being said, I really am not that excited about potentially having a camo belt in my future. I know there are much more important things about a school than what colors of belts they choose to use in their ranking system, but camo just seems so... well... cheesey.

I am sure there are others that have been through similar changes in their dojangs, so what words of advice, besides trying my best to keep an open mind, can you offer?

I checked out the web site as well.

It states he teaches single and double stick, but I see nothing about where he trained. Ask him for who and then come back here or to the sister site of FMATALK.com and ask who the person is, if that part of the training is important to you.

I hope things work out well for you, and this change proves to be for the best.

That being said, I always find it a bit strange when a school is sold and the students are sort of sold right along with it. I guess it's selling a book of business, which is what the students are for the teacher.

Personally, I think that when a teacher stops teaching for whatever reason, at least if I was one of the students, I wouldn't just go along with a new teacher who bought the business. That might work for a grocery store changing ownership or something, but I see some problems with a martial arts teacher.

For me, I'd quit training and look for a new teacher of my own choice. That could possibly be the new teacher coming in, or it might be someone else entirely. But I would not just go along and be part of the package business that this guy just bought. I make my own decisions about who I train with. I'm not part of someone's book of business.

I agree the buyer is really buying the contracts or expected monthly dues.

Personally, unless in the contract that was signed, I would ask for my monies back for tuition and for organization dues and for all other reasons you have paid.

I would then say that you are willing to check them out on a trial basis before you commit for the long term.

I just perused the website, and have another comment or two.

First, it does indeed look like there is a camoflage belt in your future, if you choose to stay with the school.

Second, this is an openly Christian school, and it looks to me like he uses the school as a vehicle for teaching and spreading his religion. If you are in agreement with this and you don't mind being evangelized to, then that's OK. If you aren't interested in that kind of thing in your martial arts training, then it's time for you to leave.

At least he is open and honest about it on his website. It would be much worse if he made no mention of it and then started working in bible teachings on the sly or something.

For me, I have no room in my martial training for such things. My spiritual and religious life are my own business, and I would never train with someone who attempted to evangelize me thru martial training.

Odd colored belts for kids is one thing in a modern type program. But a traditional program should have more traditional colors in my opinion.

As to religion I agree that my belief system is mine, and if I choose to share it then fine. And if you choose to listen then more power to the both of us. But if I am in an instructor student relationship and not of the same faith system or beliefs this would make me feel like I was being rubbed wrong. Kind of like the guy who thinks he is doing well by petting the cat, but he is rubbing the fur from tail to head and everyone but the guy knows the cat is unhappy.

This is one of my biggest concerns. The previous owner/master was a very religious man, and was very willing to talk about his beliefs with you if YOU chose to open the dialog. However, he never used class time to evangelize.

While this isn't the time/place for me to discuss my beliefs, let's just say I have some things to work through, and the last thing I want is to feel as if someone is pushing their beliefs onto me.

You concerns are yours and it is not disloyal to change clubs or schools when something like this happens.

Listen to your feelings and your concerns and make your decision with your eyes open.


Good Luck

 

[stoneheart]

My dojang recently had a change of ownership. In the process, we lost our master, and will be getting a new one. Apparently, he is from Hawaii and will be flying in in a couple weeks to take a look at the school, meet with the new leadership, evaluate classes, etc. He currently has two schools in Hawaii, and here is his website. The school's leadership appears to be pretty excited about meeting with him and finding out what sort of changes he has in mind.
A

So he's from Hawaii but is buying a school in the Midwest? I can't imagine him being away to give the type of personal attention I prefer in martial arts. I dunno. I generally just tell everyone I know to stay away from these generic TKD studios...I'm sure he's a great guy and all, but I sure wouldn't train with him.

 

[msmitht]

As a Teacher of TKD and one who has been through a change of Grandmasters 3 times at the same location (One died, one sold the school and one moved back to Korea) I have some advise for you....RUN.
First thing : The ATA is the worst type of TKD out there. They are not recognized outside their own schools or outside the US. You would be better off in a ballet class.
Second : Every Master or GM has their own way of doing things and they are ALWAYS right. All teachers who came before them were doing something wrong.
Third : They will eventually fire any and all assistant instructors from the previous owner to get rid of the "old style". The former instructors may try to open a new school but unless they have exp in business they will most likely fail.
Finally : He will probably not relocate from Hawaii...Would you? He will most likely hire a friend of his or bring an instructor from one of his established schools. In either case he will not be there very much.
Now go find a new school or, if there are no WTF/ITF schools in your area, look to a different style like Judo/Jiu-Jitsu/Boxing/Muay Thai. As long as it is a contact based art you should enjoy it.

 

[Dave Leverich]

CTA is not ATA. Although it is an organization that's principles came from ATA. As is USTA and numerous other TKD organizations in the US.

Msmitht, you seem to have a personal vendetta vs the ATA. Non-KKW schools don't recognized KKW rank, same with most orgs. You do realize that the ATA predates KKW right?

Other than all that, yes, it's going to be a big shift and I would be leary of how exactly things are going to change.

 

[clfsean]

I checked out the site... bugger it.

It sounds (from the website) like a church in a dobak. You want to go to church, go to church. You want to train, go to a dojang.

ATA is a money-maker first, anything else is after. Simple & true. I don't see much difference in this guy, except he comes across as teaching from the pulpit as much as the floor.

It may be ok for a young kid or family that's not looking for the martial in martial art, but for somebody who is serious about MA, it's not the place to be.

 

[NPTKD]

WOW... I have one of these schools just opened in my area( Florida). They guy who opened it is only a first degree. They do teach KKW but they are under a different assocation. here is the link.www.FamilyBlackBeltAcademy.org. Maybe its just me but I find the whole religion and TKD thing a turn off. I really don't see how the two mix. I would think that you would alienate about half of the people interested in your school. Strange!

 

[terryl965]

caution is the best acton, stay and see and make up your own mind.

 

[Twin Fist]

two words

camoflauge belt

that says it all

 

[troubleenuf]

We had a guy open Christian TKD school in town last year. Students must pray before each class, learn a bible verse for each belt level, ect.... This guy has a cross on his gym, has a cross on the turtle neck he has under his uniform, and is about as religious as I am. He uses it as a "hook" to get in with the churches and other religious organizations. He even advertises that they teach christianity not Buddhism like other schools. Dont even know of another school that teaches any religion in the area at all let alone Buddhism.

WOW... I have one of these schools just opened in my area( Florida). They guy who opened it is only a first degree. They do teach KKW but they are under a different assocation. here is the link.www.FamilyBlackBeltAcademy.org. Maybe its just me but I find the whole religion and TKD thing a turn off. I really don't see how the two mix. I would think that you would alienate about half of the people interested in your school. Strange!

 

[ATC]

We had a guy open Christian TKD school in town last year. Students must pray before each class, learn a bible verse for each belt level, ect.... This guy has a cross on his gym, has a cross on the turtle neck he has under his uniform, and is about as religious as I am. He uses it as a "hook" to get in with the churches and other religious organizations. He even advertises that they teach christianity not Buddhism like other schools. Dont even know of another school that teaches any religion in the area at all let alone Buddhism.

Well first of Buddhism is not a religion but rather a set of philosophies and most MA schools do not teach Buddhism at all. Yes all TKD schools teach a set of philosophies such as the tenants of TKD but this in itself is not Buddhism.

Not knocking the Christian TKD thing if that is what you are into, but it is not for me. Church is for practicing your religion in my opinion. TKD is an art that should be all inclusive. By default you are excluding all but a select few by combining the two and only choosing to accept only one religious belief.

 

[msmitht]

CTA is not ATA. Although it is an organization that's principles came from ATA. As is USTA and numerous other TKD organizations in the US.

Msmitht, you seem to have a personal vendetta vs the ATA. Non-KKW schools don't recognized KKW rank, same with most orgs. You do realize that the ATA predates KKW right?

Other than all that, yes, it's going to be a big shift and I would be leary of how exactly things are going to change.

It is not a vendetta, I just had a really bad exp at an ATA school (see First visit to an ATA school). I also can not stand Point sparring. If you can not knock them out then it is no more than tag. And btw, I have seen ATA world champions on youtube. They SUCK. Try and hit a real TKD black belt with a 540 or 720 kick and see what happens.

 

[Dave Leverich]

I saw the post yeah, and I concur on the babies teaching babies issue, no question about that. I'm not sure I'd try a 360 much less a 540+ in live competition heh, maybe if I have the guy loopy and falling back on his heels but I doubt it.

 

[NPTKD]

We had a guy open Christian TKD school in town last year. Students must pray before each class, learn a bible verse for each belt level, ect.... This guy has a cross on his gym, has a cross on the turtle neck he has under his uniform, and is about as religious as I am. He uses it as a "hook" to get in with the churches and other religious organizations. He even advertises that they teach christianity not Buddhism like other schools. Dont even know of another school that teaches any religion in the area at all let alone Buddhism.

I understand that everyone need a marketing angle, but come on!
I mean if your teach martial arts your angle should be about what your doing or what your students, dojang, etc... To out right use the religious angle is really in poor tast and I think most people see thru it. Religon is a very personal thing and it can make other feel on the outside. I don't..... I would never go that route!