Was this style really suppose to be a style?

[beauty_in_the_sai]

I don't think JKD was really supposed to be a style as Brucce said himself that he didn't believe in styles. I think naming it was Bruce's big flaw. He could've called it "my way or art," as he wanted everyone else to find their own way and not go with a style either. He said that to go with a style makes you mechanical, only doing what the founder thinks is right. He pry didn't realize he made it into a style till it was too late, hence the reason he closed all of his schools. Bruce did contradict himself alot, but we all do from time to time. He is my hero and role model, but if I thought just like him, I'd be "mechanical."

 

[bcbernam777]

Maybe, but I dont quite agree. Its not a style. There is no structure because nobody can teach you your own style. I personally think that JKD is personal development of other arts or techniques into something that would define as being JKD.

Its not a style. BL did not want people to call it that.

Your right it is not a style, it is a colection of concepts used by Bruce himeself and propegated to others, but the problem is that no one has the same basis of Bruce Lee no one can be Bruce lee and by very definition no onw can study Jeet Kune Do because Jeet Kune Do is personal, njo one can replicate Bruce's own personal journey. This is why bruce shut down his operations before he died, he realised that what he owned was not so much concerened with technique as it was with attitude, and understanding, he even acknowledged to Wong Shuen Lueng before he die that he did not understand the complexities ie depths of Wing chun, it was only after several meetings before his death that Bruce met With his former private instructor to research his methos an the methos of WC and found tht he lacked the depth in Wing chun (that info is available in theis months Kung Fu magazine with the interview retrospectivly covering Wong Shueng Leung). You must understand that Bruce was all attitude, and that is the essence of not only Wing chun or Jeet Kune Do but of all fighting, Attitude.

 

[jkdhit]

if you notice, some of his books arent in complete order. he contradicts old sayings with new sayings. however in one book, the tao of jeet kune do, i had noticed that there was a lot of old information from old books and the information wasn't organized properly

he simply changes some of his ways of thinking

i think the best example was when he said.. when he first started, a kick was a kick and a punch was a punch, once he had completed his training a kick was no longer a kick, and a punch was no longer a punch, then when he understood martial arts, he realized a kick is just a kick and a punch is just a punch

hope i didnt confuse you lol

 

[Hip-Hopkidoka]

if you notice, some of his books arent in complete order. he contradicts old sayings with new sayings. however in one book, the tao of jeet kune do, i had noticed that there was a lot of old information from old books and the information wasn't organized properly

he simply changes some of his ways of thinking

i think the best example was when he said.. when he first started, a kick was a kick and a punch was a punch, once he had completed his training a kick was no longer a kick, and a punch was no longer a punch, then when he understood martial arts, he realized a kick is just a kick and a punch is just a punch

hope i didnt confuse you lol

You are absolutely right in your example. Before his training he under-analyzed and thought a punch was just a punch, after his training he over-analyzed and thought a punch was no longer a punch, then after understanding it he simplified it and just analyzed. Bruce learned that a punch was just a punch, but at least he understood why it was just a punch, before then he didn't know that.

I think what Master Lee wanted us to gather from his unorganized quotes and insights, was that these were his thoughts and ideas, so they didn't really have to make sense to anyone else but himself. If one can't understand what he's saying, that's not a bad thing, it just means that they and Bruce Lee don't share the same ideology, there is nothing wrong with that. Bruce encouraged people to think differently and be their own person, that's the whole reason he created JKD, so he could set himself outside of the "classical" style of martial arts. While everyone was trying to fit into a set mold, Bruce Lee said "screw it" and made his own mold, that fit him perfectly. Now tell me that you wouldn't do the same thing?

Imagine that there was only ONE size of pants on the planet and you couldn't fit them. Now would you force yourself into the pants or would you take the time to make your own jeans that fit you perfectly? I took the same philosophies into consideration when I came up with Hip-Hopkido.

Think about it....

 

[jkdhit]

another good example

by the way, didnt he say that no one should call him master?

he said that he too is a student of martial arts and is continuously learning so he prefers not to be called one

 

[arnisador]

You are absolutely right in your example. Before his training he under-analyzed and thought a punch was just a punch, after his training he over-analyzed and thought a punch was no longer a punch, then after understanding it he simplified it and just analyzed. Bruce learned that a punch was just a punch, but at least he understood why it was just a punch, before then he didn't know that.

I think this is a good way of looking at it. That's what I always read into the quote, which is one I really like.

 

[eyebeams]

In my experience, 90% of these threads are side discussions that don't address whether or not the Jun Fan Gung fu base (with Bai Joing, nonchambered kicks, etc.) is any good.

So, is the base any good, or not?

 

[Corporal Hicks]

You are absolutely right in your example. Before his training he under-analyzed and thought a punch was just a punch, after his training he over-analyzed and thought a punch was no longer a punch, then after understanding it he simplified it and just analyzed. Bruce learned that a punch was just a punch, but at least he understood why it was just a punch, before then he didn't know that.

I think what Master Lee wanted us to gather from his unorganized quotes and insights, was that these were his thoughts and ideas, so they didn't really have to make sense to anyone else but himself. If one can't understand what he's saying, that's not a bad thing, it just means that they and Bruce Lee don't share the same ideology, there is nothing wrong with that. Bruce encouraged people to think differently and be their own person, that's the whole reason he created JKD, so he could set himself outside of the "classical" style of martial arts. While everyone was trying to fit into a set mold, Bruce Lee said "screw it" and made his own mold, that fit him perfectly. Now tell me that you wouldn't do the same thing?

Imagine that there was only ONE size of pants on the planet and you couldn't fit them. Now would you force yourself into the pants or would you take the time to make your own jeans that fit you perfectly? I took the same philosophies into consideration when I came up with Hip-Hopkido.

Think about it....

I believe the quote about a punch being just a punch orginates from the Tao Of Gung Fu and yes is also in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. However I interpretated that particular phrase differently.
Not saying your wrong but I saw him as refering to the muscular process involved in learning technical skill.
Before you do Martial Arts, a punch is just a punch, whilst learning Martial Arts you focus on the aspect of your punch, you try and learn how to throw it, its movements the ideas behind it, then once you have understood the Martial Art the skill is so innate in your muscle memory that its as he says, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.
Not saying your wrong, can be applied well to your view to as well, thats just the way I saw it.
Kind Regards

 

[arnisador]

In my experience, 90% of these threads are side discussions that don't address whether or not the Jun Fan Gung fu base (with Bai Joing, nonchambered kicks, etc.) is any good.

So, is the base any good, or not?

That's also an interesting question, but it's definitely a different question! It might be best to start a new thread for it.

 

[Hip-Hopkidoka]

I believe the quote about a punch being just a punch orginates from the Tao Of Gung Fu and yes is also in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. However I interpretated that particular phrase differently.
Not saying your wrong but I saw him as refering to the muscular process involved in learning technical skill.
Before you do Martial Arts, a punch is just a punch, whilst learning Martial Arts you focus on the aspect of your punch, you try and learn how to throw it, its movements the ideas behind it, then once you have understood the Martial Art the skill is so innate in your muscle memory that its as he says, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.
Not saying your wrong, can be applied well to your view to as well, thats just the way I saw it.
Kind Regards

That's an excellent way of looking at it too! I believe this is what Bruce Lee wanted when he wrote his books. He realized that every person thinks differently and each has their own path. And I think that it's great that we have two different views on the topic but they are both right! JKD was created out of Bruce's desire to express himself totally and completely. He too had different views on the martial arts, but that doesn't mean that he or anyone else was wrong, he found his own path and I think that is what he was stressing the most, individuality.

 

[grappling_mandala]

JKD died with Bruce. All we have are memories.

 

[James Kovacich]

If it wasn't supposed to be a style, it is now (depending on who you talk to). :uhyeah:

 

[arnisador]

I have to agree...for better or for worse, it is now.

I think that's good. It preserves his ideads better than it dying would have, in my opinion.

 

[CrankyDragon]

His is the style without a style. JDK is still a style, but it has no boundries, if I am understanding correctly.

 

[mantis]

that's what i wonder too..
Lee learned a lot about martial arts, he perfected some of them like WC so he developed his own style, and that was his idea..
people after him used his name, and his idea to teach it AS A STYLE!
i feel JKD is just a combo of weak filipino martial arts, muay thai, and BJJ (im not saying those are weak systems, im saying JKD students do not get the chance to become strong in any of these systems)
it worked well for Lee, but according to his philosophy it shouldnt work with anyone else unless they study several systems and be perfect at them..