Warming up?

[2literal]

I made a couple fo posts about being an older potential beginner. I did actually sit in on a couple of classes. I watched 2 tang soo and 2 tkd.

What surprised me, is that both tkd schools emphasized stretching to warm up and also emphasized proper breathing, while punching, kicking, etc.
However, neither tsd school did any stretching and one did some warmup exercises, like push-ups, situps. Neither tsd school was teaching proper breathing.
Would you weed out a school for not doing proper warm-ups or emphasizing breathing? What is typical on either of these disciplines?

 

[skribs]

What you are describing is mostly going to be up to the school rather than the style. And what one person might consider a "proper" warmup, someone else might consider to be too much or too little.

For example, that time spent doing pushups and situps was time NOT spent on doing techniques, forms, or sparring. Something like proper breathing may be taught from the start...or may be brought up when students are out of breath and the message is directly relevant to their current situation.

Stretching before class is a controversial topic. Both Taekwondo schools I went to would always do light static stretching before class. The older folks would often feel it if they didn't stretch enough before class. However, the prevailing wisdom on the internet is that stretching before class is bad, and should only be done after class. That's what all the research says, but it doesn't match my experience.

To me, what's more important than what a school does, is why they do what they do.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Wouldn't weed out for that. Stretching beforehand is more controversial than you'd think. The breathing some schools will teach out with words, others will let you figure that out physically as you run out of breath in class/give you pointers then. Can't say specifically for TKD/TSD, but both methods are common and I wouldn't argue one is better than the other.

Also, there's an idea that you can warm up on your own beforehand, however you'd like, as that gives more time to practice and learn in class. If it's an hour long class, and you spend 15 minutes warming up, there goes 25% of your learning time.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Stretching before a workout is an old-school idea which has not held up to modern scientific research. Not only doesn't it decrease the chance of injuries, it actually slightly increases the chance for injuries.

Warm-ups should be movements which get blood flowing and (as the name indicates) actually physically warm up the muscles. That can mean something vigorous like pushups/situps/squats/etc or just light movement drills.

The best time for stretching is actually at the end of a workout while your muscles are completely warmed up.

Note - everyday stretching (or "chronic" stretching as it gets called in the literature) is actually useful for developing/maintaining flexibility and avoiding injury. It's just stretching as a warmup before class which isn't helpful.

 

[skribs]

Stretching before a workout is an old-school idea which has not held up to modern scientific research. Not only doesn't it decrease the chance of injuries, it actually slightly increases the chance for injuries.

Every single time someone has felt an injury related to the amount of stretching they did as a warmup, it's always been when they showed up late and didn't stretch, or when stretching was abbreviated that day.

I know this is not what the research shows, but it has 100% been my experience.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Every single time someone has felt an injury related to the amount of stretching they did as a warmup, it's always been when they showed up late and didn't stretch, or when stretching was abbreviated that day.

I know this is not what the research shows, but it has 100% been my experience.

If they showed up late or stretching was abbreviated, does that the they also missed the other warm ups or that the (non-stretching) warm-ups were also abbreviated?

 

[skribs]

If they showed up late or stretching was abbreviated, does that the they also missed the other warm ups or that the (non-stretching) warm-ups were also abbreviated?

Usually it was during the non-stretching warmups where they would get injured from not stretching enough.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Usually it was during the non-stretching warmups where they would get injured from not stretching enough.

What sort of warmups were those? Generally warmups should not be the sort of exercises you get injured from.

 

[skribs]

What sort of warmups were those? Generally warmups should not be the sort of exercises you get injured from.

It was Taekwondo, so mainly kicks.

 

[Alan0354]

It's very important to warmup the older you get. I even have to warm up before doing those TKD stretches.

Same as doing weights, you don't go to max the first set. You do lighter and increase to max on the 3rd set.

 

[Gyakuto]

I gave a talk on this very subject to a coaching course a few years ago. If anyone knows how I can upload powerpoint slides, I’d be happy to share them.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I gave a talk on this very subject to a coaching course a few years ago. If anyone knows how I can upload powerpoint slides, I’d be happy to share them.

There's a couple steps for it, but you'd have to convert it to a pdf, then you can use the attach files to the bottom left of the text box to attach it.

To convert a powerpoint to pdf all you have to do is open it, click file-->export, then choose create a pdf/xps document. It'll create one for you with the same name, save it wherever you want, then you can attach that pdf here.

Not sure how tech savy you are/are not, so if you need screenshots of the steps I'd be happy to create them/send to you.

 

[Gyakuto]

There's a couple steps for it, but you'd have to convert it to a pdf, then you can use the attach files to the bottom left of the text box to attach it.

To convert a powerpoint to pdf all you have to do is open it, click file-->export, then choose create a pdf/xps document. It'll create one for you with the same name, save it wherever you want, then you can attach that pdf here.

Not sure how tech savy you are/are not, so if you need screenshots of the steps I'd be happy to create them/send to you.

Ah...the PDF file of the Power Points is too large to be uploaded!

How about this?

Warming Up.ppt

Warming Up!

docs.google.com

 

[Gyakuto]

I should add I wrote this for Iaido/Kendo so have said little about static/dynamic stretching!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ah...the PDF file of the Power Points is too large to be uploaded!

How about this?

Warming Up.ppt

Warming Up!

docs.google.com

To use that, it would have to be public, or anyone who wants to access would have to request permission. I just requested permission now-if you're fine with it, I can download the slides and see if I can figure out a way to lower the filesize/post it here.

 

[Gyakuto]

Can you access it now, Monkey Turned Wolf?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Can you access it now, Monkey Turned Wolf?

Yup. And tried in incognito mode so not connected to my account and can still access. Should be available to everyone now

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Attached to this post is a pdf of the slides. For what it's worth I have opened and can confirm it is legitimate slides, not a virus or anything like that (not that I'd expect one from Gyakuto) and after a quick glance so far appear very useful and informative! Plus includes references which is always nice

Going to have to look more into the heating pad part myself, since that's part of my pre-warmup before I leave the house. If it's not useful I can start doing something more beneficial with that time.

 

[Gyakuto]

Great! Thanks for your help

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Stretching before a workout is an old-school idea which has not held up to modern scientific research.

If your workout does not involve with high kick, you can do your stretch after your workout (or you don't even need stretch). But if your workout involve with high kick, without stretching, your high kick may pull your leg muscle.

The best procedure is:

static stretch -> dynamic stretch -> high kick work out

Without static stretching, this kind of dynamic stretching (or workout) may pull your leg muscle.