War or Just BS

[Disco]

For those that may not have seen the early morning headlines, North and South traded artillery shelling and at east 2 South Korean soldiers were killed and 16 civilians were injured. Could this be the preliminary jabs to an all out confrontation (it's happen before with a South Korean Naval ship being sunk, but the North said they had nothing to do with it), but this time it's an open and shut case of a clear attack. North says the South shot first and South says North shot first. At any rate, regardless of who did actually shoot first and why they did it, this act was an out and out disregard for the peace and security of both countries.

So what's your general consensus on this situation?.........

 

[d1jinx]

gonna be ugly either way...

 

[WC_lun]

Worrisome. With the very hard situation of most of North Korea's populace, it could be an opening move to use war to distract them from the starvation they face now. Since the only information any of them get is from the state and Kim is viewed of as more a god than a leader, I can see them believing it was South korean aggression, no matter the truth.

 

[Cirdan]

No doubt this was done so sucessor Kim Jong-un can show off. Like his pop and grandpa he is probably going for an impressive title, "the Strong Leader" maybe?
Keep in mind the war never officcialy ended and there is actually just a state of cease fire in place. This could quickly escalate and cost many many lives.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Nothing new here. Just saber-rattling.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Analysis: Attack is North Korean bid for attention
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101123/ap_on_an/as_koreas_clash_analysis

 

[miguksaram]

For those that may not have seen the early morning headlines, North and South traded artillery shelling and at east 2 South Korean soldiers were killed and 16 civilians were injured. Could this be the preliminary jabs to an all out confrontation (it's happen before with a South Korean Naval ship being sunk, but the North said they had nothing to do with it), but this time it's an open and shut case of a clear attack. North says the South shot first and South says North shot first. At any rate, regardless of who did actually shoot first and why they did it, this act was an out and out disregard for the peace and security of both countries.

So what's your general consensus on this situation?.........

The background is that S.K. was running drills near the water boarderline. They fired rounds during this drill but none of them ever reached over or went near the border. N.K. then fired several rounds of artillery onto a nearby island just 5 miles away from its shores, but over the DMZ. Killing two S.K. Marines, injurying several more as well as civilians (3 civilians were killed if I heard correctly from KBS World News).

N.K.'s justification was that they felt the drills were a threat to their security and so they fired upon S.K. in retaliation. Once again it is N.K. who is the instigator in this. China has been reported as saying they want both of them to work towards peace. This is just another way of China to say, I don't care what my dog does to you so long as you don't put him down.

N.K. has done this sort of thing in the past back in 1967 and 1984. They have shown no remorse and will most likely continue to do this. Even more so because of America's current state of affairs with military campaigns in the middle east, which depletes our resources that could otherwise be used to stage any campaign against them. Bottom line, is I expect more and more these types of attacks to continue until someone puts a foot up their *** and slaps a real punishment against them outside of "sanctions".

 

[miguksaram]

No doubt this was done so sucessor Kim Jong-un can show off. Like his pop and grandpa he is probably going for an impressive title, "the Strong Leader" maybe?
Keep in mind the war never officcialy ended and there is actually just a state of cease fire in place. This could quickly escalate and cost many many lives.

Kim, Jung-un is nothing more than a puppet for the military regime. It seems that he really does not have a true mind of his own when it comes to leadership.

 

[Cirdan]

Kim, Jung-un is nothing more than a puppet for the military regime. It seems that he really does not have a true mind of his own when it comes to leadership.

Maybe, it does not really matter. They still need to build him into a god which the people can then be forced to worship.

 

[miguksaram]

Maybe, it does not really matter. They still need to build him into a god which the people can then be forced to worship.

Which is what they are doing now. N.K. Feels a bit of security in knowing that they can pull **** like this and not really get reprimanded too badly for it. They're reply to their people is that S.K. and U.S.A. are scared of them Kim, Jung-un and recognize his greatness, which is why we don't fight back. This type of crap will slowly raise Kim to the demi-god status that they want.

 

[Miles]

It would be nice if China stopped supporting the NK regime. Perhaps then NK would jump into the 21st century , get a clue, and start acting a little more responsible.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It would be nice if China stopped supporting the NK regime. Perhaps then NK would jump into the 21st century , get a clue, and start acting a little more responsible.

China has little control over them these days and the two countries really do not get along all that well. I have heard this from many of the Chinese people I know for years and now there are these stories too

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101130/ap_on_re_as/as_china_nkorea_wikileaks_13

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20101130/wl_time/08599203368700

China tends to look at them as a disobiediatn teenager

But then they did not condem the act either so..... Korea keeps sabre rattling

 

[miguksaram]

China has little control over them these days and the two countries really do not get along all that well. I have heard this from many of the Chinese people I know for years and now there are these stories too

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101130/ap_on_re_as/as_china_nkorea_wikileaks_13

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20101130/wl_time/08599203368700

China tends to look at them as a disobiediatn teenager

But then they did not condem the act either so..... Korea keeps sabre rattling

Yes, more and more it is becoming apparent that China does not really have the control that most of us thought. However, they will not allow US or any other nation to step over the DMZ with out a fight. At least that is their stance now.

To boot, NK has changed the rules of engagment. It used to be that if they felt "threatened" or if SK was to fire with a specific weapon they were supposed to retaliate with the same type of weapon. However, they attacked a totally different location with totally different arms. This has changed everything and is also changing the way SK may retaliate...if they retaliate.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes, more and more it is becoming apparent that China does not really have the control that most of us thought. However, they will not allow US or any other nation to step over the DMZ with out a fight. At least that is their stance now.

True and although I do believe they should take a stance on this against NK they did say something rather interesting about the combines US/SK naval war games when they were asked by the US why they were so upset. The basic response was; Ok then we can have naval war games off of Cuba and you wouldn't mind. Sadly our history with China is not good and it goes waaaaaay back to before the boxer rebellion. There is a very old saying there "nothing good ever came from the west"

Basically they don't trust us and we don't trust them and in the meantime NK blows stuff up and tried to start WW III

I am of the belief, and I realize this is pure fantasy, that if we pulled out of the region all together and were of no concern to the PRC they would handle North Korea... but that ain't gonna happen

 

[Gemini]

True and although I do believe they should take a stance on this against NK they did say something rather interesting about the combines US/SK naval war games when they were asked by the US why they were so upset. The basic response was; Ok then we can have naval war games off of Cuba and you wouldn't mind. Sadly our history with China is not good and it goes waaaaaay back to before the boxer rebellion. There is a very old saying there "nothing good ever came from the west"

US/SK joint excercises have been going in the region since the 50's. We are required to, and strictly adhere to, the proper notification process informing them when and where these excercises are going to happen. They're not a secret and not "out of the blue".

 

[Xue Sheng]

US/SK joint excercises have been going in the region since the 50's. We are required to, and strictly adhere to, the proper notification process informing them when and where these excercises are going to happen. They're not a secret and not "out of the blue".

Understood and not defending them, just posting what they said... you have to admit though if the tables were turned, secret or not we would not be all to happy about it either

 

[Bruno@MT]

Understood and not defending them, just posting what they said... you have to admit though if the tables were turned, secret or not we would not be all to happy about it either

True. NK and China holding military exercises in front of the US coast would not go over well either.

 

[miguksaram]

I am of the belief, and I realize this is pure fantasy, that if we pulled out of the region all together and were of no concern to the PRC they would handle North Korea... but that ain't gonna happen

I believe Nixon was going to withdraw our troops back in early 70's. It is what jump started Koreagate, where many members of congress were taking "favors" from S.K. businessmen in hopes to keep US in S.K. Ironicly it was the Democrats that got caught with their hand in the cookie jar on this one.

Since China has no real power over NK at this time, I believe pulling our troops would not be the right solution. This would basicly give NK the green light to start rolling into SK. While SK does have a military, I do not feel they would fair well by themselves against NK.

 

[miguksaram]

True. NK and China holding military exercises in front of the US coast would not go over well either.

Perhaps, but what would the world think if we just opened fire on them while they were in their own territory and say we felt threatened by their drills? The fines against us would be me much harsher and China would react much more dramatically than they are now.

Also keep in mind that we run the drills within a specified designated area within ally waters. We do not just run up North of the DMZ and just open fire. Nor do we test fire any missles that would land in their territorial area.

 

[Gemini]

True. NK and China holding military exercises in front of the US coast would not go over well either.

Agreed; but it's hardly a valid comparison. South Korea is excercising within their maritime boundaries as recognized within the UN. While those boundaries may not be recognized by NK, they are recognized by China. In other words, there's a reason for them to be there doing what they're doing. NK and China encroaching on US waters is a completely different story.