Want your opinion please.

[Darksoul]

What is IKEA saying about the gothic / Dark Subculture Community?

http://links.ikea-usa.com/servlet/MailView?ms=OTAzNDc4S0&r=MjU3NzcyMDg4MgS2&j=Mjk2NTQzNjcS1&mt=1

This is not a joke. It is an ad linked to the IKEA website and has been sent out in emails to those people subscribed to their mailers.

At first, this looks like a funny college / back to school ad, but when you look at one of the captions you will see this:
Brightens up your grad’s dorm. Unlike a creepy gothic roommate, who can be a bad influence.”

What does this mean and what is IKEA trying to say here?

There is no reason to make the comment “who can be a bad influence.” How is this helping to sell pillows?

The Gothic / Dark Alternative Subculture gets enough bad press and now having a company like this make a statement such as this one further propagates the misconceptions of the "gothic" culture.

If you are offended by this ad, I urge you to contact IKEA and express your feelings about this. I will be sending them something from Bats Day in the Fun Park. If this is their belief, then I will not purchase anything from IKEA ever again. Please keep in mind; this is a huge corporation, which has an enormous customer base.

Please let IKEA know about your feelings.
Noah Korda
Creator / Organizer
Bats Day in the Fun Park
www.batsday.net


[email protected]

1-800-434-4532,
or write us at:
IKEA North America Services, LLC
Attention: Privacy Notice
420 Alan Wood Rd
Conshohocken, PA 19428

USA press contact
Mona Astra Liss
+1-610-8340180-5852


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My response:

Your recent add campaign is deplorable. I have been working my butt off to change misconceptions about goths and how dare you post an ad campaign feeding into that stereotype. I am 40, a mom, and 100% goth. I am not creepy nor weird and I spread happiness to everyone that crosses my path. I am also the founder and CEO of Goth Help Us which is an organization comprised of goths worldwide that do volunteer work. I want whoever came up with that ad fired on the spot for spreading a false blanket of lies across a subculture that none of you apparently know nothing about.

Furthermore, many of our volunteers are NOT goth and I will personally spread the word about your ad and company and ask all of our members and their friends and family to boycott your products until that ad is removed.

Sincerely,
Rebecca Hohm
Goth Help Us International
www.gothhelpus.org

 

[wade]

Well, being a biker and being put in the same situation. I can see your point. It sucks being stereotyped, doesn't it? I agree, I won't be going there again either.

 

[CoryKS]

On the other hand, stereotypes work both ways. A lot of goths milk the whole "ooh, spooky" effect of their appearance in order to intimidate others. Getting upset about people responding to that is silly. It's like wearing tight-fighting clothes and complaining that guys are looking at your ***.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/13393/edition_id/259/format

This may explain a lot and also why I don't buy Ikea!

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm guessing that Goth's over the Atlantic are different than Goth's over here? That questions triggered by Cory's comment about 'creepy intimidation', by the way.

Over here, Goths are not considered that way. The cultural setting is far more in tune with poetic romantacism than aggressive punk-style posing (a la a certain talentless Mr. Manson (pauses to spit, excuse me)).

It's a fashion that looks great on the ladies and even if some of the chaps can go a bit too far with the pseudo-Lord Byron/Shelley flamboyance it sure beats the Chav 'look' :lol:.

Anyhow, it is a badly phrased advert, no doubt about that - I can see that any sub-cultural group would be offended if such a 'tag-line' was targeted at them.

 

[CoryKS]

I'm guessing that Goth's over the Atlantic are different than Goth's over here? That questions triggered by Cory's comment about 'creepy intimidation', by the way.

It depends. It's a wide cultural swath. A lot of my peer group falls into that category, though I don't consider myself of it because I don't wear the clothes or show any outward traits. Some are more like the Manson twits. I guess my point is that somebody out there is fitting the stereotype that IKEA is using, and if it isn't you then assume the ad isn't targeting you. I don't spend my time writing nastygrams to Best Buy for their ridiculous Geek Squad campaign.

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a good point, my friend. Someone must fit the stereotype the advertisers are using, even if, as you say, the Goth culture is a broadchurch.

I've even been mistaken for one myself on occaision with my fine selection of frock coats of various types ... tho' I suppose the fact that my missus is a Goth aids in that misconception :lol:.

 

[CoryKS]

...the Goth culture is a broadchurch.

Yay! New vocabulary for me! Thanks!

 

[Sukerkin]

You're welcome, my friend .

I just noticed that I ran the two words together tho' (embarassed, am I ). They should more properly be used seperated by a space, in single quotes or hyphenated e.g. broad church, 'broad church' or broad-church.

"Broadchurch" all as one word is actually the name of a religious movement within the Church of England that was started by Coleridge and I'm guessing was the origin of the phrase in common useage.

 

[qi-tah]

On the other hand, stereotypes work both ways. A lot of goths milk the whole "ooh, spooky" effect of their appearance in order to intimidate others. Getting upset about people responding to that is silly. It's like wearing tight-fighting clothes and complaining that guys are looking at your ***.

Only if yr reason for wearing tight-fitting clothes is to get guys looking at yr ****. What about at the pool? Uniforms for women's sports? etc. Sometimes clothes can be more than simply about how you want others to perceive you... they might be required, or practical, or they could just be an expression of the way you feel most comfortable.

I'm also a little uncomfortable with the statement on another level too... i guess it depends on how you are looking. I understand, sometimes it's hard to know where to look. However, aggressive drooling is often considered impolite, no matter what the woman in question is wearing.

 

[CoryKS]

Sometimes clothes can be more than simply about how you want others to perceive you... they might be required, or practical...

Can you give an example of when goth fashion might be required or practical?

...or they could just be an expression of the way you feel most comfortable.

Could be. But different people are going to interpret it differently based on their own experiences. I'm told that in certain countries it's a bad thing to give the "thumbs up" sign. How I intend the gesture is different than how it is received. So when IKEA puts a throwaway line about goths in their ads, they are relying on reader experience to place the line in the proper context. Those who know goths like Darksoul might scrunch up their nose and go, "That doesn't make any sense." Others, who have encountered goths who fit the description will probably nod their heads or chuckle.

 

[DavidCC]

I think it is hilarious, and now I'm going to buy my daughter an Ikea pillow for her dorm room. And if she gets assigned a goth room-mate I will ask the school to move her.

-D

 

[qi-tah]

Could be. But different people are going to interpret it differently based on their own experiences. I'm told that in certain countries it's a bad thing to give the "thumbs up" sign. How I intend the gesture is different than how it is received. So when IKEA puts a throwaway line about goths in their ads, they are relying on reader experience to place the line in the proper context. Those who know goths like Darksoul might scrunch up their nose and go, "That doesn't make any sense." Others, who have encountered goths who fit the description will probably nod their heads or chuckle.

But then all those ppl who have no or minimal encounters with goths might see an ad like that and get the message that all goths are "bad influences", when in fact they are just ppl who put their pants (or fishnets) on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us! Not such a problem when it's one uninformed person spouting off, but when a huge multinational corporation with oodles of ad dollars joins in, the reach is much greater. And any statement intimating that all goths are "bad influences" is ill-informed and needs to be challenged, just like any stereotype (imagine the outcry if they had said "fat ppl" or "army vets" were bad influences?) Just my HO. :asian:

 

[CoryKS]

And any statement intimating that all goths are "bad influences" is ill-informed and needs to be challenged, just like any stereotype. Just my HO. :asian:

Actually, the ad says "...a creepy gothic roommate, who can be a bad influence." Not "all goths are bad influences." And one could also argue that they limited it to the subset of "creepy goths" as opposed to those goths who are bright little rays of sunshine (and for those who think I'm being sarcastic, check out the Japanese goth scene.) You can challenge any stereotype you want, but it's pointless if the stereotype fits the experience of the reader. Then it's just a matter of "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?"

 

[Kacey]

Do I think that Ikea's choice of comparison is insulting? Yes - as is any statement that is based on a negative stereotype.

Did it serve its purpose? Yes - to the extent that you, and other (rightfully) annoyed persons like yourself are spreading this advertisement much more widely than the distribution Ikea paid for, providing a great deal of customer recognition at no additional cost to the company. This type of recognition is generally not available any other way.

Do I think it is a good way to get such recognition? No, I really don't - but the only real way to convince Ikea, and other companies (and the advertising agencies that create their campaigns - which must be approved by the company they are advertising) to change their ways is to affect their pocketbooks. Unless you represent a large bloc of potential buyers, or can present a realistic and expensive lawsuit based on this campaign, Ikea is unlikely to really care what you think - money talks, and Ikea must think that goths don't represent or influence a large buying bloc, or they wouldn't have approved such a campaign.

If you want to affect such practices, then instead of posting the advertising where it gets a wider reading (thereby providing free advertising to Ikea) you should contact the media that prints the ads, and send them a copy of your letter - and get anyone else who is similarly annoyed to do the same (in their own words) - because your chances are better at changing the minds at the paper (or wherever you saw the ad) than you are of changing Ikea's mind.

 

[jks9199]

It depends. It's a wide cultural swath. A lot of my peer group falls into that category, though I don't consider myself of it because I don't wear the clothes or show any outward traits. Some are more like the Manson twits. I guess my point is that somebody out there is fitting the stereotype that IKEA is using, and if it isn't you then assume the ad isn't targeting you. I don't spend my time writing nastygrams to Best Buy for their ridiculous Geek Squad campaign.

There is generally a reason behind a stereotype... It's very rare that a single person can be the stereotype of an entire group, with the exception cult leaders. At the same time, you have to be careful to take each individual on their own merit.

Sorry -- but the "weird Goth roommate who wants to be a vampire/Satanist/etc" exists because there are so many of the out there being weird. Just like the stereotypes of neo-pagans are based on the relatively small subset who are a little too enamored of dancing naked in the moonlight and casting spells... Or the stereotype that cops are *******s who spend their entire day eating donuts, planting evidence, and beating confessions out of people...

 

[Carol]

I suspect Ikea knows exactly what they are doing.

A little bit of mild controversy and *poof* it becomes a viral advertisement, reaching an audience far greater than it's original mailings.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I really don't have a problem with the add. The add helps Goths feel misunderstood. You lose your relavance if you lose that fear the public has for you. Just be glad you have an opposition.
Sean

 

[Sukerkin]

A though provoking insight, Carol.

The big "But" (if you'll forgive the phrase ) is that the advertsing might reach a wider audience but if that audience reacts negatively then it's something of a home goal (English-speak for 'shooting yourself in the foot').

In my case, I have an aversion to Ikea anyway because, with some exceptions, their stuff is so overpriced that I can make it cheaper myself.

So, because I wasn't a potential customer anyway, they haven't lost me by being insulting to the fashion culture that my missus thinks is glamourous (and she is right ).

Other peoples positions on this may vary.

Any road up (to go all Yorkshire for a minute) Ikea's due for a backlash soon - like all very successful home furnishers they've been all the rage for a bit but soon they'll be passe.

 

[Obliquity]

Rather than enter into a dialogue, all you have done is give them another bad example. You did nearly nothing to actually educate them about gothic culture, but rather, exhibited the equivelent of a temper tantrum.

The very fact that you have to work so hard to overcome misconceptions should be evidence to you that there are image problems with goths -- image problems that have been earned.

It's not a misconception. Young kids wearing black and painting their faces has absolutely nothing to do with your idealized fascination with real gothic culture. They do it because they think it is cool and/or they are looking for something to fill a void in their lives. I would venture to say that it is roll playing in an effort to find something that is missing.

Filling it with blackness. Great idea.

You, on the other hand, as an adult female, may have a more clear understanding about the origins of gothic history. My question is, why do you even care what others think?