Want to Lift Weights

[arnisador]

Hmmm...nothing focusing on the chest and back or traps?

Might want to vary the abs routine a bit too to work out different sections of the abs.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

First off, all will find a lot of good information on the site linked by Eternal Beginner. The dudes name is Paul Chek and he knows his junk for the most part.
Secondly, Mr. Farnsworth, kudos on keeping a log (esp. via the net). One of the easiest things one can do to ensure success with training.

I noticed one of your "interests" to be "body building" and I think this likely explains your style of training (lifting). But, have you ever experimented with a more holistic approach to training the body? As a complex system, the body is best trained that way. This is dually true considering you are likely lifting to improve you abilities as a martial artist (as well as other reasons) and considering to nature of your style (TKD, Kenpo). Rather than trying to "isolate" certain muscles or muscle groups, training movements and movement patterns (similar to training forms).

These same thoughts apply to Lisa as you post revealed a similar method.

You approach isn't wrong, but I beleive there are methods with which you could achieve greater gain and success in, not only the short term but the long term as well.

 

[jfarnsworth]

I noticed one of your "interests" to be "body building" and I think this likely explains your style of training (lifting).

I have molded my workout sessions from the professionals via flex magazine, flexonline forum, muscle and fitness, tv programs and various other web sites I found along the way. The exercises I preform I've used during trial and error of what I think works best for me.

But, have you ever experimented with a more holistic approach to training the body?

I have no idea what you mean. Sorry but it's over my head.

considering you are likely lifting to improve you abilities as a martial artist (as well as other reasons) and considering to nature of your style (TKD, Kenpo).

That's mostly it. I like to challenge myself as hard as possible in whatever physical activity at hand. I would also like to still look at least half ways descent. Well descent for me anyway.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

Fair enough, J. Nothing wrong with wanting to look good.

I'm talking about directing your training to a more athletic means. As you style involves (though I don't know much of kenpo - mostly striking and kicking it seems, correct?) explosive, highly athletic meneuvers one can train with certain methods to assist the bodies ability in the performance of these skills. [Am I long winded or what? Sheesh!]
So, instead of doing, say, leg extensions/curls or even leg presses, one might do cleans, high pulls or squats. This is what I mean by "holistic." Your training the body as a system because thats what it is and thats how you use it. There are also"power" based movements that will develop your bodies power which is the nature of you kicking and the like in TKD.
Doing what your doing is obviously working out for you but have you ever thought of incorporating bigger, multi-joint movements into your program? I believe (know) you will benefit greatly from them. They take time to learn to correctly perform them (most do not...lazy) but it is well worth it.

 

[rutherford]

HI! I'll be you're devil's advocate for this thread. I'm actually hoping to get certified in Scott Sonnon's Circular Strength Training program within the next couple years, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Building strength is great, but I think you really need to consider what kind of strength you want to build. Think about it. There's lots of different kind of strength, with lots of different goals for each. Bodybuilders primarily want to look good. I've done this path, to the point where I looked great and felt AMAZING. My muscles were well defined and BIGger than anything I'd dreamed of before getting started on the circuit.

But it all seemed like mashed potatoes when I tried to use that strength. Sure, I could bench press almost twice my body weight with ease and great form, but what good was it really doing me in complex motions and actual performance??

My friend, Tom Dorney - who competed in international wushu championships, was a much smaller guy and yet he could Flagpole absolutely anywhere. Anyplace he could put his hands, he could make his body perpendicular to the ground and hold that pose for as long as you cared to watch. The full body stability was simply breathtaking, especially if you actually tried the excercise yourself.

That's gymnastic strength. Powerlifting is another kind of strength. Kettlebells gives you another. Clubbells yet another.

I'll be happy when I can move like a yoga guru and hit like a cannon. You might have different goals.

IMNSHO, Bodybuilding and most weight lifting will leave your joints brittle and your strength limited to specific ranges of motion. But, one thing you'll always find is that looking good is mostly based on your diet.

In any case, choose a path and stick with it until you're reached a mastery level. Dabbling here and there just confuses your body and makes it work towards goals which are often conflicting.


Rant off.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

IMNSHO, Bodybuilding and most weight lifting will leave your joints brittle and your strength limited to specific ranges of motion.quote]

Bull! That means your doing it wrong. If you are using these various ideas as means to better athleticism and better martial arts abilities and it hinders your abilities....you did it wrong. This gist of what your saying agrees with what I have been saying.

Good to see someone interested in Clubbell training. What's you training background otherwise?

 

[Brother John]

So in the spirit of the new year, my hubby and I have decided to start lifting weights on a regular basis and are contemplating either investing in a machine or free weights. We have a few free weights, just not enough.

Would you recommend BowFlex (I am a little leary of this one) or an actual weight machine with the pulleys or free weights? why or why not?

Much Thanks!

Freeweights!!!!!!!!!!!
Versatility and a MUCH better training effect!

Hands down.....


Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

IMNSHO, Bodybuilding and most weight lifting will leave your joints brittle and your strength limited to specific ranges of motion. But, one thing you'll always find is that looking good is mostly based on your diet.

In any case, choose a path and stick with it until you're reached a mastery level.

The 1st statement...I MUST heartily disagree. According to exercise physiology you're premise is backwards... if training is done correctly. (..and doing it correctly isn't all that complicated, I could write it out on a post-it note)

the 2nd.........heartily Agree!

Your Brother
John

 

[Odin]

Freeweights!!!!!!!!!!!
Versatility and a MUCH better training effect!

Hands down.....


Your Brother
John

I agree although machines are good for when you first start off,Alot of people (mainly male sadly to say) over estimate there strength when they get into a gym,Ive seen grown man drop dumbbells on they're foreheads and everything,I personal would use the machines for a bit before using free weights,just to get your body used to the added stress your giving it..think off it as staberlizers on your first bike.

The best on-line resource for anything to do with improving strength and bodybuilding check out www.bodybuilding.com it has absolutely everything you'll ever need to know about every muscle in your body!

 

[Shirt Ripper]

I agree although machines are good for when you first start off,Alot of people (mainly male sadly to say) over estimate there strength when they get into a gym,Ive seen grown man drop dumbbells on they're foreheads and everything,I personal would use the machines for a bit before using free weights,just to get your body used to the added stress your giving it..think off it as staberlizers on your first bike.

The best on-line resource for anything to do with improving strength and bodybuilding check out www.bodybuilding.com it has absolutely everything you'll ever need to know about every muscle in your body!

Starting off with machines so as not to "jump the gun" is one of those ideas that is good on paper but really can be just as dangerous as irresponsibly throwing weight on the bar. Your starting the muscles off with a highly controlled environment with only one possible plane of motion. Most often with incorrect mechanics as well. Then you grab a real bar and the muscle group involved is doing so much more than pushing in one direction. There is the stabilization factor, not to mention the fact that "lifting weights" stretngthens so much more than a muscle. Groups of muscles, bones, tendons, ligaments... These other structures will not have adapted to the stress you will put on it. Also, if a person is of the personality that they must feed their ego and load inappropriate weights on then they are likely to take it a step further considering all the preperatory "work" they (think they) have been doing on the machines.

Bodybuilding.com is a tremendous resource but most certainly is not "the best online resource or anything to do with improving strength and bodybuilding..." It has some tremendous materials and the like but it is not the best site out there. Also, for the most part, it is limited to bodybuilding specific ideas which, though important to some extent, should not be a staple of any martial artists supplementary training.

 

[rutherford]

What's you training background otherwise?

Amateur, up to now. I've got barely a year in as my own client in Scott's program. There's lots left to try and experience. I find it fits well with being more present and paying attention to my movements as much as possible through the entire day.

And, as for the disagreements above, well I don't really see them as disagreements. I really enjoyed your "holistic" approach and my comments don't apply much to that.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

Amateur, up to now. I've got barely a year in as my own client in Scott's program. There's lots left to try and experience. I find it fits well with being more present and paying attention to my movements as much as possible through the entire day.

And, as for the disagreements above, well I don't really see them as disagreements. I really enjoyed your "holistic" approach and my comments don't apply much to that.

As far as your thoughts in comparison to mine I was referencing the "functionality" aspect of things. Pump sets on bicep curls will do nothing for most MA types, whereas minimal well crafted work with clubbells could do wonders.

When I asked of you background I was thinking formal education, competitive experience, training experience. Just curious as to the experience of the "training minded" folks in here.

 

[rutherford]

Ahh. Sure. Quick history, most has been elaborated on in earlier posts . . . somewhere around here.

I'm a computer geek with a BS in such, for educational level. Started lifting weights at 14, mostly to Get Big. Like most kids, I did a ton of benching and way too few squats or other dynamic movements. Never any kind of powerlifting.

By high school I was competing in wrestling and working out with them. Wasn't a very competitive division, but I picked up some stuff. Did a bit of amatuer boxing, but never developed the cardio to be serious about it.

Went on to YSU and was taking classes and private lessons with the football team's strength coach. That was when Tressel was head coach, and I always said I thought he went to Columbus just so I could keep seeing his games.

I was training in JKD at the time.

And then I took some years off to have kids, drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and sit on the couch. About exactly a year ago I had a major wakeup call. It was a short time before I registered here.

I looked into Pavel's stuff because that's what a lot of my Bujinkan training group uses to build strength. But I was also looking into Systema at the same time, and it was a quick hop to Scott's camp. I'm still doing more of his bodyweight series than clubbell training, but there's nothing quite like swinging a club and I'm working more of it into my training schedule.

I also dabble in a bit of Silat, especially Karambit work. And you probably remember I'm thinking about trying out some Aikido.

Unlike my advice above, it probably looks like I'm spreading myself too thinly. But I actually do have a bit of a method to my madness, and I feel Aikido is probably going to be the biggest diversion from that overall path. We'll see.

I feel better now than I did when I was 18, and I'm 10 pounds lighter. We'll see how it turns out, and then maybe I'll experiment on other people.

%-}

 

[Shirt Ripper]

About exactly a year ago I had a major wakeup call. It was a short time before I registered here.

Good decision. Cigarettes are bad. Thanks for the rundown.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

Would love your input, so here goes.

I am trying to make it a well rounded routine with my arms, legs and abs.

LEGS:
Dumbell squats = 3 sets of 10
Dumbell lunges = 3 sets of 10, each leg
Reverse lunges = 3 sets of 10, each leg (alternate days between reverse and lunges)
Calf raises = 50 each leg
(I am only holding 5 pounds in each hand)

Also tried the butt exercise that sarah mentioned up thread, the burn was incredible!

ARMS and SHOULDERS:
Bicep curls = 3 sets of 10
Dumbell shoulder press = 3 sets of 10
Concentration curl = 3 sets of 10
Dumbell tricep extension = 3 sets of 10
Kickback = 3 sets of 10

Weights I am holding vary depending on the exercise.

ABS:
Raised leg crunches usually about 50 holding for 4 seconds.

The first set is easy, the second harder and the third a killer. Perhaps I am doing too much at once or maybe not enough? Haven't technically done "exercise" like these in quite some time. Input is welcome

Pretty sure I forgot to look through this after you posted it. MMA, right?
The last set being the hardest isn't a bad thing, it's a pretty solid basic set-up.

It might get redundant now, but I will recommend training with the focus on movements rather than body parts/regions. So, "Overhead Pressing" as opposed to "shoulders." This is because the overhead press is a tremendous movements for athletes because it involves so much of the upper body (from the hips and up!).

Decent basic set-up on the first section. Every try step-ups (on a relatively high box)?

Grab a broom handle and try overhead squatting. All athletes should do them in my opinion.

It's okay and preferred to train the upper body in the same basic manner as the lower.

How often are you training in MMA specific stuff? How often are you lifting?

 

[evenflow1121]

Well I guess I am a little late on this post but what the hell.

I would always take up free weights than a universal machine given the options. Free weights can also tone if used properly, machines however tend to be too limited.

My workout consists of mostly free weights. While I did have a machine at home, I feel joining a gym is probably a better option. The gym that I go to has everything I need, in fact it has 3 floors and in the long run it was cheaper than exercise equipment. IN any event my workout consist of 5 days a week routines. I run two miles every day, on Mondays I do arms, Tuesday back and shoulders, Wednesday I do abs, Thursday is chest, and Friday is another ab day. My reps for weightlifting consist of 4 sets for every exercise of 20, 15, 12, and 7 reps. Adding more weight each time I go up a set. I hope this helps you. Of course I do use machines for certain areas but they are very limited. If I did not have the option of joining a gym however, I would go with free weights hands down.

 

[rutherford]

So, Shirt Ripper, how often do you have people who come to you and already have a good idea what they're doing or should be doing?

Have you got a good feel for how often people start an excercise program and "do it wrong" - to use your words?

 

[Shirt Ripper]

So, Shirt Ripper, how often do you have people who come to you and already have a good idea what they're doing or should be doing?

Have you got a good feel for how often people start an excercise program and "do it wrong" - to use your words?

The big problem with whether or not people have any idea of what to do is difficult to nail down simply because most often people are tainted by the many myths, fallacies and often times, lies that exist withing the "fitness world."

It all comes down to this. I, honestly, don't care what people prefer to do or are doing in there training (as long as it is not obviously harmful) because to say that there is only one effective means of training for a desired goal is similar to saying there is only one way to spiritual enlightenment...just plain short sighted. All I try to push with people is the few basic concepts that make things much easier, safer and more effective in the long run. These basic principles should be the cornerstone of training and, as in most martial arts, must be mastered before moving on to "fancier things" or "highly advanced" methods. I am currently learning to fall in aikido and at some point we will move to more advanced ideas.
The issue stems from peoples willingness to buy what their television sells them. Gunter such-and-such says the only way to get rock hard abs is to buy his trampoline and hop around like a bunny and contract abs. Sure. People are obsessed with the "new and improved" but few realize that there isn't much new out there. The fitness industry (personal trainers), or at least the ones I am exposed to certainly are not helping matters.

A person buys a "physio-ball" and starts doing an ab program with it. They do crunches. But can they manage a decent, basic bent-leg sit-up? Often, they cannot. So, how is this person better or fitter? Now I am not taking away from the effectiveness of "instability" based training because it can be effective when ustilized correctly but shouldn't we address the bigger picture first. This is why I am constantly telling people to "train the body as a system." People avoid sit-ups because somebody they work with told them that they are bad for their back. If you hurt your back doing something you either did it wrong or have a weak back (barring the freak accident and some other stange condition).

My mind is now becoming jumbled and so is this post so I will end it with one last thought of mine:

The majority of the population has never challenged nor developed their body in its most basic naturally stressed movements. Because of this most are underdeveloped and prone to injury. Common misconceptions, held as universal truths, prevent them from breaking this barrier and becoming better.

A belt, in most cases, is an issue of liability, not safety.

I will now go breath.

 

[Lisa]

So the weight lifting hasn't been a consistent thing this past month, except for the last week. I have been doing the owie owie owie thing a lot with my quads again, however, not nearly as bad as it was. I am trying to train smarter because lifting weights and then needing four days to recover really isn't accomplishing a whole lot.

Anyways... I have been noticing with my shooting that my lower back becomes sore. I need to strengthen that part of my body and would like some specific exercises to help with that if anyone would care to share some with me. Thanks in advance.

Lisa

 

[Jonathan Randall]

So the weight lifting hasn't been a consistent thing this past month, except for the last week. I have been doing the owie owie owie thing a lot with my quads again, however, not nearly as bad as it was. I am trying to train smarter because lifting weights and then needing four days to recover really isn't accomplishing a whole lot.

Anyways... I have been noticing with my shooting that my lower back becomes sore. I need to strengthen that part of my body and would like some specific exercises to help with that if anyone would care to share some with me. Thanks in advance.

Lisa

I would seriously consider going with lighter weight and less sets and repetitions if you still need four days to recover. Work for slow and gradual gains rather than hitting it full bore. Heck, even an arms and legs toning DVD workout with light weights will give you some real endurance gains - particularly relative to those who do not train with resistance. I know that I worked up very gradually over a year's time before even purchasing heavy weights.

Regarding back exercises, I would recommend having a competent and trained specialist show you in person, if possible. Either that or a DVD where you can actually see the correct mechanics. Serious injuries - repetitive motion and outright tears can occur with incorrect technique.

Best of luck and don't hesitate to scale back. A workout with light weights two or three times a week is much preferrable, IMO, to more severe workouts that you're not able to stick with because of overstress (both life and physical) and long recovery times.