Video of aikido techniques against full resistance

[HighKick]

It's rarely to see a "floating" throw work on the mat.

Without help from a very compliant partner, I agree.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Still on topic, here's someone winning a BJJ match with an aikido sankyo. We could argue that he only won because his opponent didn't know how to position himself to defend the lock, but the same could be said for the videos of aikido people losing to a single leg takedown so fine in my book

That arm twist was gentle. I've done similar techniques and when it's done at a faster speed and more aggressively it will "throw" the opponent. For me it was more of "pull my opponent into the ground." Here's what worked for me. The twist + forward + downward pull. Once I come out of the twist, I want to pull the arm in front of my opponent and at a downward angle. This keeps him from being able to step forward and from twisting out of it.

Kung Fu Wangs clip is a good example, but instead of the pull to the side, remain in front and then drag him into the ground. The pull is as if you are trying to pull the shoulder out of the socket. This is so your enemy cannot fight back. The risk of this is that some where in that process your sparring partner may become seriously injured. It just depends on how well that arm locks out. You'll know when you have it just right because of the tension of the arm as it cannot twist further vs then tension in the arm from someone trying to fight against the technique.

I probably wouldn't use it this way in sports. The day I used it was because someone grabbed me from behind and I unintentionally went into self defense mode . I don't use it sparring, since it can cause some damage to the ligaments to someone who may not be flexible.

 

[O'Malley]

That arm twist was gentle. I've done similar techniques and when it's done at a faster speed and more aggressively it will "throw" the opponent. For me it was more of "pull my opponent into the ground." Here's what worked for me. The twist + forward + downward pull. Once I come out of the twist, I want to pull the arm in front of my opponent and at a downward angle. This keeps him from being able to step forward and from twisting out of it.

Kung Fu Wangs clip is a good example, but instead of the pull to the side, remain in front and then drag him into the ground. The pull is as if you are trying to pull the shoulder out of the socket. This is so your enemy cannot fight back. The risk of this is that some where in that process your sparring partner may become seriously injured. It just depends on how well that arm locks out. You'll know when you have it just right because of the tension of the arm as it cannot twist further vs then tension in the arm from someone trying to fight against the technique.

I probably wouldn't use it this way in sports. The day I used it was because someone grabbed me from behind and I unintentionally went into self defense mode . I don't use it sparring, since it can cause some damage to the ligaments to someone who may not be flexible.

Sounds like the classic version:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sounds like the classic version:

When applying a shoulder lock, it's better to have the elbow control hand with tiger mouth facing toward your opponent instead of facing toward to yourself. This way, your elbow control arm will have at least 2 more-inch extra extension.

 

[wab25]

When applying a shoulder lock, it's better to have the elbow control hand with tiger mouth facing toward your opponent instead of facing toward to yourself. This way, your elbow control arm will have at least 2 more-inch extra extension.

The two are completely different. The Aikido version is done from a very different position.... he is upright, not bent over..... his body is behind the elbow.... his side is pushing his opponent off balance, so that he needs hi s other hand....he is not reaching for his opponent.... From the position the Aikido guy is in, he would not be able to turn his tiger mouth the other way. If more "control" is needed, he only needs to use the blade of his hand and forearm to cut through the elbow.... its very effective and very damaging to the elbow.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The two are completely different. The Aikido version is done from a very different position.... he is upright, not bent over..... his body is behind the elbow.... his side is pushing his opponent off balance, so that he needs hi s other hand....he is not reaching for his opponent.... From the position the Aikido guy is in, he would not be able to turn his tiger mouth the other way. If more "control" is needed, he only needs to use the blade of his hand and forearm to cut through the elbow.... its very effective and very damaging to the elbow.

Not sue the purpose of Aikido joint locking is. IMO, the purpose is to control your opponent on the ground while remain standing.

In this picture, it's clear to see that his left hand tiger mouth is facing toward his opponent.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Another shoulder lock example.

 

[drop bear]

Still on topic, here's someone winning a BJJ match with an aikido sankyo. We could argue that he only won because his opponent didn't know how to position himself to defend the lock, but the same could be said for the videos of aikido people losing to a single leg takedown so fine in my book

I try to hit wrist locks and bit in BJJ. I arm wrench from a failed shoulder throw.

There are a bunch of cool developments that just the grips provide.

But I also put them on slow. And people break out of them a lot. Which is my way of keeping training partners.

(A lot of this goes back to my security days I still try to get hand cuffing and escort positions. Do a bit of knife defence. Which I sneakily insert in to rolls and MMA spars)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sounds like the classic version:

Almost, But this is closer to the position that I use. Imagine holding a sword that you quickly slash downward and as the blade falls you begin to pull your hands backwards towards your center. This way you are are creating force from driving downward and force from pulling.

The other difference is high difference. The position that the person on the right is in, is not a good pulling structure.Re.

I treat my opponent's arm like this spear. I think I developed this method because it's the same way I have to swing my heavy staff in order to control the weight from the swing.

I think if I were to train it today with a partner. I would use a staff. I would l hold one in while my parter hold the other end. Twist under the staff and then pull the staff from my partner's grip. My partner would needd to wear gloves to keep the staff from burning his hands or he would need to hold the staff loosely right before I pull.

Elbow control is not needed since it's having your arm twisted in pull in front of your head makes it really difficult bend it and keep balance, and fight multiple directions on the arm itself. The time to fight the twist is when you see your opponent trying to go under your arm.

The escape is simple but requires good footwork. which you may not have if someone kicked you in the stomach or groin before applying it like Kung Fu wang showed.

In application letting o of the arm will allow them to have the arm to help protect them from place planting. Keeping hold of the arm means their face will eat the ground. I could be wrong on this, but I think the violence of this and the Demo of this in Aikido is what confuses the application of it in Aikido. For example, at the speed that a fight occurs. I think this "gentle" bump isn't going to be as gentle to where one hand on the ground will allow him to stop his fall. If the force is too great for that one arm to stop him from falling then the second part of the techniques will not be possible. Sometimes I think many of Aikdo techniques are multiple signle techniques that and that one shouldn't assumpe that what comes next is part of the same technique.

The person I did it to I let go and they slid all the way arcoss the foor maybe 5 feet away from where I stood. They probably stumbled for 3 and actually slid 2.

 

[drop bear]

When applying a shoulder lock, it's better to have the elbow control hand with tiger mouth facing toward your opponent instead of facing toward to yourself. This way, your elbow control arm will have at least 2 more-inch extra extension.

If you wanted to be safe. You would do that from a 2 on one Russian. Because the whole arm is basically locked in. And you use your body to apply pressure.

And there are a hundred other places to go from there

 

[JowGaWolf]

When applying a shoulder lock, it's better to have the elbow control hand with tiger mouth facing toward your opponent instead of facing toward to yourself. This way, your elbow control arm will have at least 2 more-inch extra extension.

I don't think that would work here. It's a different approach. It would be better to bump him and allow him to fall on his face and then seize his back from this position. From here's there's no need to go into extra steps just to arrive at an arm lock. My personal thoughts is that the technique ends here. Anything after this point is to answer " what if I mess up he doesn't fall flat and tries to get up."

 

[isshinryuronin]

It would be better to bump him and allow him to fall on his face and then seize his back from this position. From here's there's no need to go into extra steps just to arrive at an arm lock. My personal thoughts is that the technique ends here. Anything after this point is to answer " what if I mess up he doesn't fall flat and tries to get up."

View attachment 32959

Agree. A little forward hip motion and a sideway-down pull on his arm should land him flat, face down. Putting the left knee on the opponent's shoulder blade will keep him there for whatever you want to do with his arm. Simple and direct from the position shown.

 

[wab25]

Not sue the purpose of Aikido joint locking is. IMO, the purpose is to control your opponent on the ground while remain standing.

Why do you think that there is only one way to lock joints? There are many. Aikido does things their way, as each other art does things their own way. If you want to have your body between the other guys elbow and waist, while he is bent over, so that you can use your body to keep him off balance and remain close to him.... the Aikido way puts you in a good position to do that. In fact, his entire body is positioned to destroy that elbow.... without bending over and without over reaching.