Very cool Hapkido video!!

[skribs]

Yes sir! Another thing that is sometimes hard to learn. One of the reasons I felt so uncoordinated when I first began studying Hapkido.

For that reason, when I started teaching, footwork was one of the things I emphasized and ensured I taught with any new technique I taught.

That's the first thing we teach as well, and yet even though people can master the footwork when they don't have ahold of someone, as soon as they grab someone's arm they shuffle step around them like they're trying to generate static electricity.

 

[thanson02]

Also this link may help, but we will still not know the whole truth.

The History of Hapkido - Scott Shaw

The formatting on that website is horrible.

As for the whole truth, it is a shame that much of it is a "he said, she said" situation. I did hear through the grapevine that there is someone who was involved with the official documents of many of the early Hapkido and Hapkido connected schools, but they are not giving up the info for whatever reason.

Best we can do with what we have is look at the different accounts, go with the similarities between the accounts, and assume the rest is just personal perspective.

 

[Gweilo]

Yes sir! Another thing that is sometimes hard to learn. One of the reasons I felt so uncoordinated when I first began studying Hapkido.

For that reason, when I started teaching, footwork was one of the things I emphasized and ensured I taught with any new technique I taught.

That brings back some memories, hours and hours of standing in T stance, sweeping the legs round, forward, back, turn, back, turn, forward, I still move this way, which gets me a ticking off in my current art, but I can't help it when there is a lock on its there, I do sometimes refer to T stance as an old friend.

 

[Gweilo]

The formatting on that website is horrible.

As for the whole truth, it is a shame that much of it is a "he said, she said" situation. I did hear through the grapevine that there is someone who was involved with the official documents of many of the early Hapkido and Hapkido connected schools, but they are not giving up the info for whatever reason.

Best we can do with what we have is look at the different accounts, go with the similarities between the accounts, and assume the rest is just personal perspective.

I too remember a rumour like this back in 2000 and something, not sure if it the same rumour, but this person will not release this information, as it discredits their version of the Hapkido story, but as you say, he says she says, the person in the rumour I heard, is a Korean bloke that now resides in the USA, and their version was of the art was called Sin moo.

 

[thanson02]

I too remember a rumour like this back in 2000 and something, not sure if it the same rumour, but this person will not release this information, as it discredits their version of the Hapkido story, but as you say, he says she says, the person in the rumour I heard, is a Korean bloke that now resides in the USA, and their version was of the art was called Sin moo.

It might be the same rumor. What I heard was that it was to respect the different schools and masters perspectives on what happened and prevent inter-school fighting. Not sure if I put much stock in it though. From what I have seen, if the old masters don't like it, they will call it all lies and double down on their views of the history.

I was under the impression that Sin Moo Hapkido was founded in the 1980s by Ji Han-Jae?

 

[Gweilo]

I don't think the idea to stop inter school fighting or arguing worked, if it did, I would still be training in Hapkido, Sin moo may have been established in the 1980's, but I recall an interview he did around the time of the death of Bruce Lee, with regards to the film game of death, and about Korean arts, and he refered to his art as Sin moo back in the 70's, I will see if I can find the interview, either way his contribution to Hapkido is undeniable.

 

[Gweilo]

Here is an interesting read attached, I always believe there are 3 sides to a story, A B, and the truth is somewhere between.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's the first thing we teach as well, and yet even though people can master the footwork when they don't have ahold of someone, as soon as they grab someone's arm they shuffle step around them like they're trying to generate static electricity.

Yeah, that's not uncommon. I've seen someone master a sequence of steps (there's one I use as part of the warm-up), then get to the technique that uses it, and ENTIRELY change the sequence of steps because they've touched a person. It takes them a while to connect the dots and get the body movement to do the work.

I had a student say one time, "It looks so easy when you do it." My reply: "That's because I'm doing it right."

 

[Gweilo]

There are some interesting reads here as well.

Complete history and chronology of Hapkido

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here is an interesting read attached, I always believe there are 3 sides to a story, A B, and the truth is somewhere between.

I can't open that PDF for some reason.

 

[Gweilo]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw065PG96RL4DG6xNPAL5cU2

See if that helps

 

[Gerry Seymour]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw065PG96RL4DG6xNPAL5cU2

See if that helps

Much better, thanks.

 

[Bruce7]

IMO Hapkido must be a very important MA.
Back when I was young, when the WTF had just formed.
We talk about how cool it would be to go to Korea and get the training at the source.
I was told a student ask Jack Hwang if he got to Korea what taekwondo teacher should he study under.
He told the student if he got to Korea to study Hapkido.

 

[Gweilo]

I was lucky enough to get invited to train Hapkido for 6 months in Korea, it was f***ING hard going, many a time I would ask myself why am I here, the Do jag I attended, was 8 hours a day (with a couple of breaks) hard training, one day we trained only breakfalls that was it, another day we practiced shoulder rolls, straw mats, left shoulder right shoulder, run around the mat, then again, for 8 hours, the only other time I puked as much was my first sea fishing adventure, but I can still shoulder role now, those 6 months improved my Hapkido 10 fold, and ingrained a belief of yes you can, and let me tell you, I had passed my 2nd Dan just before I got the invite, once there, I felt like a white belt for the 1st 3 months, if you get the opportunity to train an art in its native country, my advice would be, if you are serious about your art, grab it with both hands, but buy f**k will you have to work for it.

 

[oftheherd1]

It's pretty well established (and pretty obvious, IMO) that it's largely derived from Daito-ryu (perhaps via Ueshiba's Aikido?).

That seems very likely. My GM told me that all the old GM acknowledged that the art came from a Korean who came back to Korea after WWII. I don't recall that he ever gave the name of the Japanese art and frankly, I wasn't all that interested. I just wanted to learn as much of what he knew as I could.

Some will say it is unlikely that he would have "lost" all his possessions on a train. Those were hard times in Korea and that is as likely as anything else. Whatever, it is clear that Choi was an excellent practitioner of a grappling martial art. That is not contestable. Choi has stated where it came from as well, and there is no record that it was handed down from the Shilla dynasty. Sorry for any disappointment that might cause.

Any desire to boost Korean egos is misplaced in my opinion. Ego boost should only come from ones demonstrated learning and abilities in the art practiced, not where it came from.

 

[Gweilo]

I agree, Choi would not have been given any status, 1 because he would have been classed as a servant, 2nd he was not Japanese, and the only evidence is say so. The most interesting part was Morihei Ueshiba's acknowledgement to Saito Sense about Choi assisting at a seminar. Assiting in what way we are unsure of, but it is clear Choi was proficient at the techniques. After Takada ended his life via a hunger strike, it is unlikely Morihei would have associated himself with Choi, seeing as Choi stated in his 1980's interview, he returned to Korea, because he did not feel his Korean heritage would have been tolerated.

Apologies in this post I quoted Saito, when I should have stated Kissomaru.

 

[Buka]

Here, I'll give you guys the official history of American Karate......

A bunch of guys got together and figured out a way to fight and exercise and taught it to other people.

Throughout the years various people improved on it and others added a liberal amount of bullship to it.

Some opened halls where it was sold to others.......and where the term Caveat Emptor raised it's old Latin head for the umpteenth time.

Of course, that's only American Karate. I'm sure it's a different story for all the other arts.
They probably didn't use the word umpteenth.

 

[oftheherd1]

Here, I'll give you guys the official history of American Karate......

A bunch of guys got together and figured out a way to fight and exercise and taught it to other people.

Throughout the years various people improved on it and others added a liberal amount of bullship to it.

Some opened halls where it was sold to others.......and where the term Caveat Emptor raised it's old Latin head for the umpteenth time.

Of course, that's only American Karate. I'm sure it's a different story for all the other arts.
They probably didn't use the word umpteenth.

I expected better of you Buka. I see no mention of practitioners secretly conspiring to show nebulous information from the American Karate old timers, proving how it came from those highly trained and elite amphibious soldiers serving under no less that George Washington himself.

 

[oftheherd1]

I was lucky enough to get invited to train Hapkido for 6 months in Korea, it was f***ING hard going, many a time I would ask myself why am I here, the Do jag I attended, was 8 hours a day (with a couple of breaks) hard training, one day we trained only breakfalls that was it, another day we practiced shoulder rolls, straw mats, left shoulder right shoulder, run around the mat, then again, for 8 hours, the only other time I puked as much was my first sea fishing adventure, but I can still shoulder role now, those 6 months improved my Hapkido 10 fold, and ingrained a belief of yes you can, and let me tell you, I had passed my 2nd Dan just before I got the invite, once there, I felt like a white belt for the 1st 3 months, if you get the opportunity to train an art in its native country, my advice would be, if you are serious about your art, grab it with both hands, but buy f**k will you have to work for it.

Sounds like an interesting experience. I would caution anyone contemplating such an adventure to check the reputation of such a school. Unfortunately, as with all martial arts, not every teacher who wishes to start a new kwan, wishes to advance the art as much as some other motive.

 

[Buka]

I expected better of you Buka. I see no mention of practitioners secretly conspiring to show nebulous information from the American Karate old timers, proving how it came from those highly trained and elite amphibious soldiers serving under no less that George Washington himself.

I hang my head in shame, how could I have forgotten him?