Use circular punch to deal with straight puch

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have always believed that to block your opponent's punch is too conservative way of thinking (such as the boxing guard). When your opponent punches you with straight punch, you throw circular punch at the same time Your circular punch can automatically knock down your opponent's straight punch. If you draw 2 circles in front of you, your opponent's straight punch cannot go in.

What's your opinion on this?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have always believed that to block your opponent's punch is too conservative way of thinking (such as the boxing guard). When your opponent punches you with straight punch, you throw circular punch at the same time Your circular punch can automatically knock down your opponent's straight punch. If you draw 2 circles in front of you, your opponent's straight punch cannot go in.

What's your opinion on this?

ha ha ha.. stealing my moves I see.. just kidding. Short answer is YES this works really well. For me, sometimes 1 circle is enough. However, the faster they the more circles I'll need, which is usually 2. I don't think I've ever used 3 circles before. It's usually 2 circles, with both hands interfering with my opponent's ability to chamber and reload the punch. My circle prevents my opponent from being able to draw their arm directly back to reload load position, so it usually takes them longer to get the arms into punching position.

The only real danger is screwing up the circle. If I do the circle incorrectly then I'll end up helping my opponent power his next punch.. Other than that it's a sound technique, which is why I'm surprised that I don't see it as often as I thought i would. Excellent for use against jabs.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My circle prevents my opponent from being able to draw their arm directly back to reload load position, so it usually takes them longer to get the arms into punching position.

Agree!

If you use circle to use your leading arm to press on your opponent's upper arm, you can disable his whole arm mobility. IMO, this is the quickest way to disable your opponent's leading arm. Just 1 hook punch above your opponent's elbow joint and you are there.

 

[geezer]

What's your opinion on this?

I do something a lot like that. I call it climbing the tree, since you hook two branches (arms) and then the trunk (neck) to get a clinch. I started showing it in Wing Chun as something for the students to defend against and to teach how to deal with a clinch, but the fact is I found it works really well for me when used at the right time.

 

[Buka]

I don't do it as a rule, but I've had it done successfully against me.

 

[Martial D]

Can work. Requires perfect timing so low %

If my arms are there, I'm clinching.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I do something a lot like that. I call it climbing the tree, since you hook two branches (arms) and then the trunk (neck) to get a clinch. I started showing it in Wing Chun as something for the students to defend against and to teach how to deal with a clinch, but the fact is I found it works really well for me when used at the right time.

If you are good at this "circular punches (double spears)", you will never have to worry about jab and cross any more.

IMO, this training can develop a very good habit,

- You always interrupt your opponent's punch away from your head.
- Your offense is also your defense.

Your circular punch can set up a perfect under hook.

It's similar to the WC chain punches, you can use it for offense too. The clip is used to record the principle. It's not sparring clip.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you are good at this "circular punches (double spears)", you will never have to worry about jab and cross any more.

IMO, this training can develop a very good habit,

- You always interrupt your opponent's punch away from your head.
- Your offense is also your defense.

Your circular punch can set up a perfect under hook.

It's similar to the WC chain punches, you can use it for offense too. The clip is used to record the principle. It's not sparring clip.

The first clip is known as "Wrap the Mummy" in Jow Ga. I could be wrong but I think once someone told me that the literal translation is "Wrap the Corpse"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The first clip is known as "Wrap the Mummy" in Jow Ga. I could be wrong but I think once someone told me that the literal translation is "Wrap the Corpse"

In SC, we call it "downward separate hands". You separate your opponent's arms away from his head/body. Of course there are 4 possibilities:

You separate your opponent's arms

1. both upward,
2. both downward,
3. left upward, right downward,
4. left downward, right upward.

Each can be used to set up different attacks.

The downward separate hands can also be used to set up for:

- bear hug,
- double legs,
- ...

 

[dvcochran]

Would this be similar to two downward outside blocks? It looks very similar. What am I missing?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Would this be similar to two downward outside blocks? It looks very similar. What am I missing?

- The downward outside block is used to block a chest punch.
- The double spears (circular punch) is used to block a face punch. It has pressing down force (like parry down).

It original comes from the SC grip fight.

 

[drop bear]

Would this be similar to two downward outside blocks? It looks very similar. What am I missing?

Ultimately everyone is missing turning off at an angle. Otherwise eventually you are going to get whacked.

 

[dvcochran]

- The downward outside block is used to block a chest punch.
- The double spears (circular punch) is used to block a face punch. It has pressing down force (like parry down).

It original comes from the SC grip fight.

I can follow that. To stay on the same topic, the double spear is similar to an Inside block or as you said a parry movement? The movement in the video is certainly more circular than an Okinawan inside or outside block. The motion of theses blocks in most Korean styles is an amalgamation; a bit more circular than an Okinawan block.
I never make a hard delineation between where the block goes. There are simply ranges within a persons natural motion. In general terms, down/low block, inside/outside/middle block, and high block.

 

[marques]

I did not get your idea.

Someone will tell straight punch is shorter, quicker.

My way is parry+hook, same motion, if it fits your question. More risky for me, but similar, would be moving aside and hook, or uppercut. Both counters, none simultaneous.

 

[dvcochran]

I did not get your idea.

Someone will tell straight punch is shorter, quicker.

My way is parry+hook, same motion, if it fits your question. More risky for me, but similar, would be moving aside and hook, or uppercut. Both counters, none simultaneous.

I am jut trying to understand the concepts in the OPs post and translate them to what/how I have learned. I am looking at it from the perspective of what the attack is targeting.

In your example of a straight punch, which I am assuming would be a middle target, the double spears mentioned by @Kung Fu Wang may not be the best choice. However, when I watch the video I can see it blocking a straight punch.
But I agree, speed would be a big factor.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ultimately everyone is missing turning off at an angle. Otherwise eventually you are going to get whacked.

The angle can be decided by your back foot. A stealing step can move yourself to be outside of your opponent's attacking path.

 

[dvcochran]

Ultimately everyone is missing turning off at an angle. Otherwise eventually you are going to get whacked.

I agree, but is that what the thread is about? I took it to be about the circular block, not the pre/post footwork.

 

[drop bear]

I agree, but is that what the thread is about? I took it to be about the circular block, not the pre/post footwork.

No successful technique just happens. There is always a sequence of events that has led up to it.

And it is that sequence where the magic of martial arts exists.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ultimately everyone is missing turning off at an angle. Otherwise eventually you are going to get whacked.

Not sure if we are missing it or if we haven't gotten to that point yet. For me there's 2 parts Circling the arms which is a technique by itself and then cutting the angle to get off center which is footwork. Part 1 circling arms + Part 2 footwork angles = Complete application. If you get Part 1 wrong then you'll get hit before you can even do Part 2. If you Get Part 1 correct but get Part 2 wrong, then you still get hit.

If you look at Wangs demo of the technique you can see the angle being taken. From an instructors perspective it's always difficult to teach both at the same time especially if the footwork is bad to begin with. The feet have to know what to do and where to go "without any instruction from the brain." technically not possible, but that's what's necessary. The "feet have to have a mind of their own". so to speak.

 

[drop bear]

Not sure if we are missing it or if we haven't gotten to that point yet. For me there's 2 parts Circling the arms which is a technique by itself and then cutting the angle to get off center which is footwork. Part 1 circling arms + Part 2 footwork angles = Complete application. If you get Part 1 wrong then you'll get hit before you can even do Part 2. If you Get Part 1 correct but get Part 2 wrong, then you still get hit.

If you look at Wangs demo of the technique you can see the angle being taken. From an instructors perspective it's always difficult to teach both at the same time especially if the footwork is bad to begin with. The feet have to know what to do and where to go "without any instruction from the brain." technically not possible, but that's what's necessary. The "feet have to have a mind of their own". so to speak.

There is no part one part two here. If you are going to try to use a circular action against straight punching you need to be off line in some manner.

Or he will get inside your arms and you're gonna have a bad time.