USAT vs MAC or MAC vs USAT?

[Twin Fist]

Pretty rude to alter someone's post to reflect what you think it should say. Also says a lot about you Twin Fist.

yes it does, it accuratly reflects what I think of the KKW and it's fanatical fanboys.

And if you think THATS rude, do a post search on me, trust me, i have been much, MUCH ruder than that.

Hell, for me, thats positively POLITE. But if it got your knickers in a twist, i'll apologize

 

[terryl965]

Can we get back to the topic at hand, any real thoughts about how this will effect the USAT this coming year?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Pretty rude to alter someone's post to reflect what you think it should say. Also says a lot about you Twin Fist.

Actually, ruder here is continuously reregistering for the site after being banned, what 4 times now?

 

[d1jinx]

So back to the topic....

USAT vs MAC or MAC vs USAT?

 

[d1jinx]

Terry,
after reading your post, you almost get the feel for the atmoshere. Seems like MAC is unhappy with USAT but is attempting to play nice while biting their teeth. It seems like USAT holds the power and MAC knows it. I sense alot of resentment for good reason. But at the same time, some (not all) of those in MAC are the ones who ran USTU into the ground.

 

[MJS]

Folks,

We've already had 2 posts reported in this thread. Lets not turn this into the usual pissing match please. Return to the topic at hand and keep the other stuff out of the thread.

MJS
MT Asst. Admin

 

[d1jinx]

Can we get back to the topic at hand, any real thoughts about how this will effect the USAT this coming year?

I think I see membership continuing to decline. Especially within the korean-american community. I also dont think the numbers at tournaments will be as large either.

 

[Twin Fist]

its gonna be worse than that:

the numbers will already be down becasue of the economy

THEN add in the disgust with the current situation, and BOOM

the tower falls over into a swamp.

 

[terryl965]

Terry,
after reading your post, you almost get the feel for the atmoshere. Seems like MAC is unhappy with USAT but is attempting to play nice while biting their teeth. It seems like USAT holds the power and MAC knows it. I sense alot of resentment for good reason. But at the same time, some (not all) of those in MAC are the ones who ran USTU into the ground.

Yes you are correct MAC are the ones that ran the USTU down, but when they where in charge there was a sense of fair play and great competition in all division. Last year Junior Olympics and Senior National there was alot of fighters that won a medal but lost there match because there was only two or three in those division, atleast 12 people won gold because they had nobody to fight. How can a organization that is suppose to be there for it members give away a gold medal and declare them a National Champion, why does these parents and people allow this to happen? I see everything going down the drain as it did a few years back.

 

[terryl965]

I think I see membership continuing to decline. Especially within the korean-american community. I also dont think the numbers at tournaments will be as large either.

Yes I can see that as well, for my school we only pay for a day pass for $7.00 instead of the yearly one, no reason to though away another $35.00 since we are only doing the US Open

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Yes you are correct MAC are the ones that ran the USTU down, but when they where in charge there was a sense of fair play and great competition in all division. Last year Junior Olympics and Senior National there was alot of fighters that won a medal but lost there match because there was only two or three in those division, atleast 12 people won gold because they had nobody to fight. How can a organization that is suppose to be there for it members give away a gold medal and declare them a National Champion, why does these parents and people allow this to happen? I see everything going down the drain as it did a few years back.

Although I was never big on olympic style sparring, I did compete at the Junior Olympics back in '97.. . As a second dan, there were 157 competitors just in my rank and weight division, and it is truly sad to hear that now there are so few competitors on the sport circuit. Especially since the population of sport tkd dojangs is so high in the U.S. right now.

 

[terryl965]

Although I was never big on olympic style sparring, I did compete at the Junior Olympics back in '97.. . As a second dan, there were 157 competitors just in my rank and weight division, and it is truly sad to hear that now there are so few competitors on the sport circuit. Especially since the population of sport tkd dojangs is so high in the U.S. right now.

Don't get me wrong there are still big events like with the AAU thye have alot more competitors right now and the USAT are getting the majority of there Junior team members from them, they are a true org for the grassroot people. I remember back in the nineties and how big division where, man those where the days.

 

[Archtkd]

Although I was never big on olympic style sparring, I did compete at the Junior Olympics back in '97.. . As a second dan, there were 157 competitors just in my rank and weight division, and it is truly sad to hear that now there are so few competitors on the sport circuit. Especially since the population of sport tkd dojangs is so high in the U.S. right now.

That's a serious point. The decline in competitors has shrunk dramatically under USAT and sometimes I almost think there are people who want it to be that way for their direct benefit, to the detriment of the nation. That trend was there in the waning days of USTU, but I don't think USA Taekwondo has done much to improve the situation. What that essentially means is that the nation is likely not sending its best Taekwondoists to the Olympics and other international WTF events, despite what we are always being told.

 

[mango.man]

Although I was never big on olympic style sparring, I did compete at the Junior Olympics back in '97.. . As a second dan, there were 157 competitors just in my rank and weight division, and it is truly sad to hear that now there are so few competitors on the sport circuit. Especially since the population of sport tkd dojangs is so high in the U.S. right now.

How many of those 157 REALLY belonged there? Probably 10-15 at most, which is about the size of the average 14-17 BB bracket these days. A huge majority of the others (like us in those days) were likely commanded by their Masters and Grandmasters to join the USTU and participate in the events because the Masters and Grandmasters got huge kick backs for bringing huge numbers of kids to the events.

Huge brackets do not make for good competition. A good pool of strong competitors make for good competition.

I would much rather watch a bracket of 10 really good fighters and 5 crappy fighters go at it and finish at 5PM than watch 145 crappy fighters and 12 really good fighters fight until 4AM.

(I know my message is off the official topic, but I just wanted to respond to the notion that somehow huge divisions make for a quality event.)

 

[SahBumNimRush]

How many of those 157 REALLY belonged there? Probably 10-15 at most, which is about the size of the average 14-17 BB bracket these days. A huge majority of the others (like us in those days) were likely commanded by their Masters and Grandmasters to join the USTU and participate in the events because the Masters and Grandmasters got huge kick backs for bringing huge numbers of kids to the events.

Huge brackets do not make for good competition. A good pool of strong competitors make for good competition.

I would much rather watch a bracket of 10 really good fighters and 5 crappy fighters go at it and finish at 5PM than watch 145 crappy fighters and 12 really good fighters fight until 4AM.



(I know my message is off the official topic, but I just wanted to respond to the notion that somehow huge divisions make for a quality event.)

To be honest I honestly have no idea how many of those 157 competitors "should" have been there. Honestly I do not know if I should even have been there. Olympic sparring rules are not what I am traditionally trained in, and although my kwan jang nim was vice president of the USTU, he never pushed or even spoke about any of his students participating in the junior olympics or senior nationals. But he never discouraged us either.

All I know is that I lost my last match because I lost points for "excessive contact." It was this experience that made me realize that olympic style sparring and the sparring I was accustomed to were two different animals.. . So I did not persue the olympic endeavor any further.

I'd like to make clear that I do not bash sport tkd, but it is just not what I have been trained in and was not something that I particularly enjoyed. My idol was not Herb Perez but Albert Cheeks and Mike Warren.. . Just a different cup of tea.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

To be honest I honestly have no idea how many of those 157 competitors "should" have been there. Honestly I do not know if I should even have been there. Olympic sparring rules are not what I am traditionally trained in, and although my kwan jang nim was vice president of the USTU, he never pushed or even spoke about any of his students participating in the junior olympics or senior nationals. But he never discouraged us either.

All I know is that I lost my last match because I lost points for "excessive contact." It was this experience that made me realize that olympic style sparring and the sparring I was accustomed to were two different animals.. . So I did not persue the olympic endeavor any further.

I'd like to make clear that I do not bash sport tkd, but it is just not what I have been trained in and was not something that I particularly enjoyed. My idol was not Herb Perez but Albert Cheeks and Mike Warren.. . Just a different cup of tea.

sorry to stay off topic but do they still deduct points for "excessive contact"? If so , I can only shake my head....

 

[SahBumNimRush]

sorry to stay off topic but do they still deduct points for "excessive contact"? If so , I can only shake my head....

I honestly don't know, I haven't competed in that circuit since my first experience back in '97.

 

[mango.man]

I don't know what rules were in place for 14 + Black Belts in 97, but I can assure you that these days the rules allow for full contact in those age groups.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I don't know what rules were in place for 14 + Black Belts in 97, but I can assure you that these days the rules allow for full contact in those age groups.

thats good to hear

 

[d1jinx]

How many of those 157 REALLY belonged there? Probably 10-15 at most, which is about the size of the average 14-17 BB bracket these days. A huge majority of the others (like us in those days) were likely commanded by their Masters and Grandmasters to join the USTU and participate in the events because the Masters and Grandmasters got huge kick backs for bringing huge numbers of kids to the events.

Huge brackets do not make for good competition. A good pool of strong competitors make for good competition.

I would much rather watch a bracket of 10 really good fighters and 5 crappy fighters go at it and finish at 5PM than watch 145 crappy fighters and 12 really good fighters fight until 4AM.

(I know my message is off the official topic, but I just wanted to respond to the notion that somehow huge divisions make for a quality event.)

Hey I remember those days. I was terrified when i turned 17 and could spar in the adult BB division. Requardless of if they deserved to be there, physically and mentally it took its toll on you when you had a large division. Fighting fight after fight, weather they were good or bad was rough. It was usually a toss up in the end on who would win, cause some would tire out, others would get hurt, and some got psyched out in the begining because of the numbers and froze in the first round.

It was different those days.

Now I too see people show up and get Gold , because they are the only one there. No fault of theirs, but what is that doing mentally to them? Building a false confidense? Or discouraging them from entering next time becasue they wasted their money and didnt get to fight.?