USAT tournament questions

[WaterGal]

As some of you probably know by now, my fiance and I have a school. Neither of us ever did USAT tournaments, just local ones, but we have some students that are interested in competing more seriously next year and we want to support and help them do that.

I've done some reading and research, but I still have a couple questions I was hoping you all could help me with, since I know some of you have experience with this.

1) Sparring gear. At a color belt level, what do they need on their feet? E-socks, WTF-approved non-electronic ones, or are "regular" (non-footie) instep guards ok?

2) Poomse judging. Any good resources out there on exactly what the judges want to see? I've seen some books that say they're guides, but I want to make sure I'm looking at the right stuff.

3) Coach levels. For the cadet/junior/senior divisions at state qualifiers, do you need to be a Level 1 coach (I know that you do at nationals), or is AC ok?

I really appreciate everyone's help - you guys can be a wealth of info. Thanks!

 

[tshadowchaser]

no answer just want to say those are some great questions

 

[ATC]

Start here Become a USA Taekwondo Member

Sparring gear for color belts can vary depending. Some event have color belts use Electronic Hogus so you should get the foot socks just incase. Can be worn even with regular hogus as well. But you need to check with each event. Color belts don't need WTF approved gear but it needs to be close. Black belts must have WTF approved everything, this included uniform. You will also need to follow the belt structure of USAT and WTF also, not your school belt structure.

White - 10/9 Gup (Taequek 1)
Yellow - 8/7 Gup (Taequek 2)
Green - 6/5 Gup (Taequek 3 or 4)
Blue - 4/3 Gup (Taequek 5 or 6)
Red - 2/1 Gup (Taequek 7 or 8)
Black - 1 to 9 Dan (All Forms plus All Black Belt Forms)

Tip: I stated that the forms for the belt levels are "or" The higher form for each gup is best as will be graded higher. Where the color belt that fits the Gup you are for USAT or WTF from the above color system. If you wear the wrong belt color for your gup you may find your student mis-matched and doing the wrong form or competing higher or low then they are.

For Poomsae follow the Kukkiwon guides. Go to the Kukkiwon website and start there. However there will always be some small details that will vary but for the most part Kukkiwon is the way to go. It is best to have a high level WTF referee come in and do a seminar. Will have to pay him for this but if you charge your student for the seminar ($50) that should cover his fee. Find a local referee.

As for now an AC level credential is OK but it may change to a level 1 or 2. AC level coach do not have protest rights so I would get my level 1 for those rights.

Start with the link posted above and you should get you questions answered. Browse around the site as it is all there but you may have to dig for some of the info you want.

Hope this helps.

 

[Archtkd]

2) Poomse judging. Any good resources out there on exactly what the judges want to see? I've seen some books that say they're guides, but I want to make sure I'm looking at the right stuff.

3) Coach levels. For the cadet/junior/senior divisions at state qualifiers, do you need to be a Level 1 coach (I know that you do at nationals), or is AC ok?

I really appreciate everyone's help - you guys can be a wealth of info. Thanks!

Everything ATC told you is good, and I will add to that with a question. Are you talking about USAT-sanctioned events in your state or the bigger USAT tournaments -- Nationals, US.Open -- National Team trials, etc.

-- Most USA-sanctioned events -- even smaller ones -- use electronic hogus for sparring, especially for blackbelts -- which means your athletes will have to purchase foot protectors with sensors. The good thing is that the same footwear can be used in sparring without e-hogus. E-Hogus are usually provided at the tournaments.

-- You will need WTF approved gear, but the good thing is you have a number of brands to choose from. Your cheapest WTF approved gear is probably MTX - made by Mooto and distributed by Best Sangmoosa. Kwon USA has an excellent holiday deal now for shin and forearm protectors.

-- The USAT -- poomsae page has excellent poomsae referee rules and guidelines follow them. Also these might help you:

1. The Explanation of Official Taekwondo Poomsae – by Ik-Pil, Kang. This is an excellent book on modern Kukkiwon poomsae. It’s more detailed than the official Kukkiwon text, which I would also recommend. The author, GM Ik Pil Kang, 8th Dan, is vice chairman of the education committee of the Kukkiwon.

2. The Textbook of Taekwondo Poomsae – published by the Kukkiwon. This is a good textbook, which accompanies the official Kukkiwon poomsae DVD set. It’S very close in design and detail to GM Ik-Pil, Kang’s book.

3. What is Taekwondo Poomsae, by Kyu-Hyung Lee. This books comes with a DVD. The author Kyu-Hyung Lee, 9th dan, is one of the world's pre-eminent poomsae teacherrs. He's former Kukkiwon president, a professor at Keimyung University in Korea and was head coach of the Korean national team at the first World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships. Please do not confuse him with Kyu-Hyun L:ee another great taekwondoin and former teacher at the Kukkiwon, who also produced an earlier DVD, which can be useful for understanding some historical elements of current Kukkiwon poomsae.

Video/DVD Resources:

1. Official Kukkiwon Poomsae, 6-DVD Set – produced by the Kukkiwon – This is the authority and reference guide for Kukkiwon poomsae. Performers in the set are all senior Kukkiwon leaders and instructors..

2. Dartfish WTF Televion -- There's tons and tons of very good video of of world class competitors on there and it's free.

Please note poomsae at many state USAT sanctioned events is still shaky -- meaning lots of judges, especially at the colored belt level are still not well versed in current Kukkiwon/WTF standards. There also seem -- although there really shouldn;t be -- a difference in judging the so called grassroots and elite athletes.

If you need further assistance feel free to PM me your e-mail contacts.

 

[WaterGal]

Thanks so much guys! I really appreciate it.

I did look at the USAT site and at (last year's) packet for our state qualifier, but I couldn't find some info - I probably need to look around on the USAT site some more, haha.

The state qualifier packet said competitors need WTF-approved gear, and that black belts use the e-scoring, but it didn't specify about foot gear for color belts. They also, IIRC, didn't specify whether color belts need WTF-approved uniforms. We give a WTF uniform after the black belt test, so it's not an issue for them, but I dunno if I need the color belts to get one.

At this point, I'm only talking about the state tournaments, or - at most - the grassroots division at Nationals. We're a pretty new school and I'm not under any illusions that someone that's been a 1st poom for 2 months and gone to 2 local tournaments before is going to get 1st at the state championship.

ATC - Thanks about the belts; tat won't be a problem for us, as we use those same colors for the higher of the two forms for each of those levels (green belt = Taegeuk 4, etc). Also about the coach level.

Archtkd - I really appreciate that list of resources, that's just what I was looking for with that. These students do the forms well, but I feel like any serious competitor is going to do them "well", that's the minimum. They have to do it better than well, to stand out. We need to know what perfect is. Every tiny minute detail.

 

[TrueJim]

...These students do the forms well, but I feel like any serious competitor is going to do them "well", that's the minimum. They have to do it better than well, to stand out. We need to know what perfect is. Every tiny minute detail.

Again, I'm no expert, but in my limited experience, "perfect" depends a lot on who the judge is. The few tournaments I've seen, I could have sworn I saw somebody do a form nearly book-perfect, and yet still some zany judge preferred somebody else's slightly-off version. My only point is, in my opinion, for forms competitions it's a good idea to prepare competitors for potential undeserved disappointment. That doesn't mean they shouldn't compete, but I think it's important to know going-in that forms competitions can be a bit of a dice roll, depending on the judge.

 

[WaterGal]

2. The Textbook of Taekwondo Poomsae – published by the Kukkiwon. This is a good textbook, which accompanies the official Kukkiwon poomsae DVD set. It’S very close in design and detail to GM Ik-Pil, Kang’s book.

I just wanted to thank you again for recommending this book. I got it and it's exactly what I was looking for. (Now, if only the English translation in it was a little better.... i.e., I'm a little stuck on "Back knee of the Apkubi is starched when punching", for Taegeuk 8.)

 

[Gnarlie]

I just wanted to thank you again for recommending this book. I got it and it's exactly what I was looking for. (Now, if only the English translation in it was a little better.... i.e., I'm a little stuck on "Back knee of the Apkubi is starched when punching", for Taegeuk 8.)

stretched.

I don't have the book, but I'm guessing this is the punch after the front leg kick. People have a tendency not stretch the back leg straight into the full Apkubi position, in the worst case leaving the heel slightly off the ground, I think because they know they are moving back on the next movement. No no no!

 

[WaterGal]

stretched.

I don't have the book, but I'm guessing this is the punch after the front leg kick. People have a tendency not stretch the back leg straight into the full Apkubi position, in the worst case leaving the heel slightly off the ground, I think because they know they are moving back on the next movement. No no no!

Good call. It's written in a box on the opposite page, but I think you're right.

There's a lot of weird/awkward translations in the book, which makes it hard to parse in parts. But the actual material is great. The arm should be at a 120 degree angle, points will be deducted if you do x instead of y, etc.

 

[Archtkd]

I just wanted to thank you again for recommending this book. I got it and it's exactly what I was looking for. (Now, if only the English translation in it was a little better.... i.e., I'm a little stuck on "Back knee of the Apkubi is starched when punching", for Taegeuk 8.)

You are very welcome. There's a nother great and free resource I forgot to mention: The WTF poomsae rules and referee handbook: (http://www.worldtaekwondofederation...etition_Rules_and_Interpretation_20131206.pdf) . Pay very close attention to the deduction factors illustrated from Page 42.