US admits salvaging sunken Soviet submarine

[Big Don]

US admits salvaging sunken Soviet submarine

The American government has finally revealed details of a secret mission to raise a sunken Soviet submarine.


Telegraph.co.uk Excerpt:

By Tom Leonard in New York
Published: 4:40PM GMT 14 Feb 2010


The admission ends more than 30 years of silence over one of the most elaborate and expensive projects of the Cold War.
The CIA has always refused to confirm even the barest details of Project Azorian, a daring 1974 exercise that was backed by the industrialist Howard Hughes and estimated to have cost £1 billion in today's money.

However, following an application to declassify the information under the US Freedom of Information Act, the CIA has released an internal account of the mission, albeit with some of the biggest mysteries still unanswered.
In the 50-page article published in 1985 in the agency's in-house journal, the CIA details how President Nixon went against the advice of his senior military chiefs in the hope of gaining crucial intelligence from the nuclear missiles being carried by the sub.
The Soviet Golf-II sub, the K-129, sank in 1968 in the Pacific, northwest of Hawaii, in circumstances that have never been explained.
It was carrying three ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads. According to the newly-released papers, despite the difficulties of reaching the vessel some three miles down, Richard Nixon ordered the creation of a task force to bring it to the surface.

END EXCERPT
Neat! Somehow, I bet we got our money's worth out of it...

 

[terryl965]

You know we are doing this all the time but know we are admitting it...

 

[Archangel M]

I don't see why we shouldn't be.

 

[Big Don]

I don't see why we shouldn't be.

IIRC and according to Wikipedia:
Salvage law has as a basis that a salvor should be rewarded for risking his life and property to rescue the property of another from peril.
Had Nixon sent them a bill, the Cold War might have heated up real fast.

 

[Archangel M]

A real coup would be STEALING one.

 

[Big Don]

A real coup would be STEALING one.

I read that book. I saw the movie. Alec Baldwin sucks.

 

[Deaf Smith]

And what was wrong with salvaging the sunk Ruskie sub?

Heck you guys think the Reds wouldn't have done the same if they had the technology to do it? Any one here really think governments of the world really all that peaceful (after all, name one that doesn't have a inteligence serice.)

I would be shocked if back they the CIA was willing to play nice. Can't say the same for today with 'PC" rules, but back then we stoled alot of stuff from the communist. Just as they did from us (and still do.)

 

[Archangel M]

I think the CIA should pack up shop if they DIDN'T pull of operations like that.

 

[Scott T]

Let's see...

I knew 20 years ago that Howard Hughes designed and built the salvage ship Glomar Explorer expressly for the purpose of raising the K-129. And the last I heard she's rusting away in a Hawaiian port (I'm going to check if that info is still current).

Worst kept secret. Ever.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I think this should be classified in the 'duh' category of newsworthiness.

It would have greatly surprised me if they wouldn't have done it.
At the very least, it gave them detailed information on the state of Soviet warheads and missile design, sonar capabilities, noise signatures, strategical limits (speed, time underwater, etc) and a host of other information at a time when the cold war was still going strong.

They probably do this stuff every time the opportunity presents itself. As do the Chinese (remember the spy plane that went down ) the Russians, the French, the Israelites, etc.

 

[MA-Caver]

I think this should be classified in the 'duh' category of newsworthiness.

It would have greatly surprised me if they wouldn't have done it.
At the very least, it gave them detailed information on the state of Soviet warheads and missile design, sonar capabilities, noise signatures, strategical limits (speed, time underwater, etc) and a host of other information at a time when the cold war was still going strong.

They probably do this stuff every time the opportunity presents itself. As do the Chinese (remember the spy plane that went down ) the Russians, the French, the Israelites, etc.

In the realm of knowing/not knowing this line said it best from Under Siege 2: "Yeah, I'm gonna shock the world by spreading ca-ca all over the place. Guangzhou (China) is a chemical weapons plant masquerading as a fertilizer plant. We know this. The Chinese know that we know. But we make-believe that we don't know and the Chinese make-believe that they believe that we don't know, but know that we know. Everybody knows.

Also remember Clancy based his book on things that might've happened but everyone says DIDN'T happen. This salvage probably helped spur Clancy's imagination.

What is sad in retrospect is that the Soviets have an awful track record with their submarines.

 

[Archangel M]

The Soviets have a bad track record with anything that requires high maintainance, especially with high technology requirements.

 

[theletch1]

The Soviets have a bad track record with anything that requires high maintainance, especially with high technology requirements.

The soviets were great at the low tech stuff...the AK47 and 74 for example. They were also pretty damned good at chemical weapons. Of course, when the Union collapsed all bets were off. I really haven't kept up on the new weapons systems that the Russians are using now-a-days. Putin, remember, was head of the KGB for awhile and I just don't believe a tiger changes it's stripes.

 

[Blade96]

You know thats why Putin didnt ask the americans for help right away and refused help when August 12, 2000 happened, dont you? Its cause the americans pull stunts like this.

sure Putin was a jerk for going on vacation and not giving a darn but the americans are no angels either. I studied up on the cold war - and my Russian History prof said he believes the cold war aint over. and I tend to agree. Actually there are a lot of similarities between the usa's 'war on terror' thats going on now, and the coldwar actions of previous us governments.

 

[Archangel M]

What "stunt" would that be?

You don't think THEY are/were doing the same?

 

[Bruno@MT]

+1. I would not call this a stunt. This is just making use of the opportunity handed to them. Afaik the official Soviet policy was that the state came before the individuals when it came to things like the kursk. Better that the soldiers die than op security compromised.

Don't blame the US for doing the same thing every nation on the world does when it has the chance. The Soviets did exactly the same thing whenever they had the chance. The Russian leadership was responsible for the decision to shield kursk and noone else.

Intelligence is a game of chess. The largest non-nuclear explosion in human history was caused in this game of chess. The Soviets stole technology they eventually used in gas lines. The Americans knew and let it happen but introduced a fatal design flaw that would cause the equipment to fail rather dramatically. And with that explosion, the Soviets suddenly could not trust anything they ever stole anymore.

All parties play the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[jks9199]

You know thats why Putin didnt ask the americans for help right away and refused help when August 12, 2000 happened, dont you? Its cause the americans pull stunts like this.

sure Putin was a jerk for going on vacation and not giving a darn but the americans are no angels either. I studied up on the cold war - and my Russian History prof said he believes the cold war aint over. and I tend to agree. Actually there are a lot of similarities between the usa's 'war on terror' thats going on now, and the coldwar actions of previous us governments.

What "stunt" would that be?

You don't think THEY are/were doing the same?

They did. So did other nations. It's kind of to be expected, y'know, as part of The Game of Nations. In fact, it wasn't too terribly long ago that a US aircraft was seized by China before a lot the stuff on board could be destroyed...

 

[Blade96]

You don't think THEY are/were doing the same?

I know they did. Both sides did.

its just the popular opinion that much of the west has about stuff like this: They say The sovs were the bad guys and we the good. I studied cold war in depth in history and I know both sides pulled stuff I dont agree with

But both aides acted like complete children and jerks at times. As Bruno said....i dont hate the players (well some of them i do) I hate the games.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I know they did. Both sides did.

its just the popular opinion that much of the west has about stuff like this: They say The sovs were the bad guys and we the good. I studied cold war in depth in history and I know both sides pulled stuff I dont agree with

But both aides acted like complete children and jerks at times. As Bruno said....i dont hate the players (well some of them i do) I hate the games.

I agree but it was deadly serious at that time, they were the bad guys. In hindsight much of it was blown out of proportion, but they were an enemy we had to protect ourselves from.

I was in the reserves back in the early 1980's, we were told that the Warsaw Pact countries had a 9-1 advantage with tanks, 3-1 with planes and a 5-1 advantage with men and that in a war, we would live about 1 week. Then the nukes would start dropping.

With nukes pointed at everyone, it was deadly serious.