ultimate black belt test

[bushidomartialarts]

hi all. so i'm thinking about tom callos' ultimate black belt test. you can check out details at www.ultimateblackbelttest.com.

i'm impressed with the notion. basically, if you already have a black belt you can apply to take part in the program. the requirements include rigorous training and physical conditioning, plus:

both performing and instigating acts of charity and kindness

spending a day blind

researching the life of a living hero

repairing a broken relationship and righting a personal wrong

spending a year with careful attention to your diet

it goes on and on.

it's really influencing what i want to do with my black belt tests here at my school. how many folks are in programs (or run programs) that aggressively pursue non-combat aspects of black belt living?

 

[CuongNhuka]

it does seem intresting, ad one of the instructers in my area did that. couldn't tell you much else though

 

[rutherford]

An old thread on this test: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20542

 

[bushidomartialarts]

thanks, ruthorford for the link.

godsdamitalltohell i was irked by the responses in the first couple pages of the thread. (i apologize if people got more informed later on, but i couldn't take it anymore).

there was a lot of negativity on that thread, posted by people who obviously had never really researched the program or spoken to tom callos. negativity irks me. blind negativity backed by ignorance is a sin.

i won't refute any particular claim made in that thread, but i'll just say anybody who's against it should contact some of the people who have gone through it. i've interviewed a few, and one attributes his survival of throat cancer to it.

anyway, the spiffy thing about tom callos is that he encourages people to hijack his ideas. he never copyrights his stuff, saying to cannibalize everything. by the time we've done so, he's on to his next thing anyway.

which brings me back to the point. our school has mid-level non combat requirements for black belt, and pretty hefty ones for the kids' program.

how many other schools are agressive about the non-combat personal development aspects as a requirement for black belt?

and for those who want to talk about what a scam it is. don't post here. mr. callos wants us to use the ideas for free. he considers it a compliment. if you want to buy the whole deal, those who actually know say it's worth every penny.

 

[rutherford]

As an aside, I always view the forum at 100 posts per page. It lets me scan past stuff faster.

I was also a bit surprised by the vehemence of the responses in the other thread and said that I did indeed like a lot of the aspects of the program.

I'm not currently a part of any Belt program. In RMAX, there is a lot of talk about the transformative aspect of the physical practice. But not a lot of the other side, except by personal example and sometime essays.

The thing I wonder about most is the testability of these issues. I think that over a years time, you could easily perform all of the items on the test and still not have ingrained any of the principles it's trying to bring out. Memorizing a speach about Mastery doesn't mean you've internalized any of it.

On the other hand, it's hard to memorize something and have NONE of it sink in. Just as it's hard to serve food at a shelter and not be affected by the experience.

Reading requirements do seem like something I've seen at a lot of schools.

 

[bydand]

I think there are lot of good ideas there. The school I go to has a bit of extra for BB. For the childrens programs, each child has to take an intention to promote paper to their teachers at school and home for the parents. It is to check to see if they are on track both in the home and in their school concerning grades, attitude, respectfulness, etc... it is to help the kids remember that they lessons they learn in the Dojo, are also life lessons. If their teacher or parents report that they are not giving their best effort, they are passed up for that session of advancements, and given a chance to get back on track.

 

[Tez3]

Looking at the old thread I can see why there was so much hostility, my first thought on reading the ultimate black belt test site was how much would this cost? I didn't necessarily see it as a scam but there is no one I know that could ever afford to do it.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Looking at the old thread I can see why there was so much hostility, my first thought on reading the ultimate black belt test site was how much would this cost? I didn't necessarily see it as a scam but there is no one I know that could ever afford to do it.

bingo on that one. price tag (including the cost of things like travel and projects) runs around 10k. if you have to ask, you can't afford it. the folks who've done it say it's worth it.

most of the clients are studio owners. lots of colleges cost more than 10k a year. still, it's a lot of money.

i'd have understood the hostility a little more if mr. callos wasn't clear about how he expects most people to cannibalize his stuff.

 

[Tez3]

It would cost me an absolute fortune to fly backwards and forwards to the States, accomodation etc. My bosses wouldn't be too happy either.

I didn't read it as him saying you could cannabalise his stuff more that you could "take" (his inverted commas) the test yourselves form the curriculum posted and you could go to other MA schools but his would be the best to go to. It is a marketing website with no mention of costs so I'm thinking people are bound to be suspicious. It may be worth it for some rich people to be able feel they are an elite but for us lesser mortals alas we are stuck with what we have. Personally I'm ok with that, I have a brilliant instructor lol!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

man, i hadn't even thought about what it must cost for people who aren't in the continental 48. ouch.

but seriously, i'm very curious how many programs are as aggressive about non-combat development in their black belts....

 

[Adept]

but seriously, i'm very curious how many programs are as aggressive about non-combat development in their black belts....

One might as well teach their students how to play guitar, service their car and build a birdhouse from scrap timber, if we are going to be teaching them non martial arts related skills.

These things (watching your diet, repairing relationships, both performing and instigating acts of charity and kindness, spending a day blind, researching the life of a living hero, etc) are not martial skills, and should not (IMO) be considered as such.

Sure, it's good to be a good person. But that has no bearing on being a good martial artist.

 

[Kwan Jang]

I'd like to reply to Adept's comments that it really depends on how you define a martial artist. Many schools claim in their advertisements that they build character and teach life skills. Tom's program really follows this up with action. This is not as a replacement of physical training, but something to supplement it and give it (or you, the participant) more depth.

I have a bit of a different perspective from most on this topic. Tom and I are both sixth dans and some of the senior students under the same instructors, KJN Ernie Reyes, Sr. and KJN Tony Thompson (partners for over 30 years). Tom has basically taken our instructors' "mastery test" guidelines and tweaked them a bit w/ some ideas of his own. I've went through this process several times (some of those had Tom and I going through it together being pushed by KJN Ernie and KJN Tony) and each time it has been a great growth experience for me.

It's mandatory every three years, for all master-level students (testing for rank or not) to go through this process. It's a minimum of one year of training cardio, weight training, a strict nutrition program, plyometrics, plus cirriculum work. For us, this includes boxing, kickboxing (both MT and American), submission grappling, and NHB sparring and drills. Also, stick and knife work (FMA's), bo staff, and the CDT gun disarm program for weapons work. All of this is part of our documented weekly training for at least a year (usually about 2-3hrs. of cirriculum work/day and 1-2 hours of conditioning at least 4-5 days/wk). This year was a mastery year and I went for 18 months on this program. The thing that really forces you to grow is the process that you go through during this time. Many of us still stay pretty close to this approach to training all the time.

Tom's UBT program is his way of taking our test to other school owners and let them share a bit of it. Now, as I understand it, he doesn't do nearly as much insanity to his participants as KJN Ernie and KJN Tony do to us for the five days and five nights they have us out in the field, but I believe they still gain an enormous value from it.

 

[Tez3]

I can see how Kwan Jangs training would benfit people but along with a lot of other people I don't feel my charachter is so lacking that I need to be taught how to live properly. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I do have a code or ethic to live by. My martial arts training is strenuous at the best of times, I do TSD,MMA, BJJ, Aikido, Atemi Jitsu, Weapons, Judo and self defence. I'm ex forces (RAF) a mother of two and in my fifiteis. I don't want to made to feel I'm a lesser martial artist or person and I don't want to be made to feel wanting.

 

[mrhnau]

I can see how Kwan Jangs training would benfit people but along with a lot of other people I don't feel my charachter is so lacking that I need to be taught how to live properly. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I do have a code or ethic to live by. My martial arts training is strenuous at the best of times, I do TSD,MMA, BJJ, Aikido, Atemi Jitsu, Weapons, Judo and self defence. I'm ex forces (RAF) a mother of two and in my fifiteis. I don't want to made to feel I'm a lesser martial artist or person and I don't want to be made to feel wanting.

I totally understand that... however, there are alot of people that require exterior motivation. I go to the gym and see many people paying fortunes to have a trainer tell them what machines to do, what weights to lift, what kind of food to eat, etc... Do I need that myself? No, but I understand that some people need it... For those that need this kind of program and can afford it, then I have no beef with it. I don't "feel bad" or like a lesser person that I don't have one (except perhaps that I don't have the extra cash laying around like they do LOL)

These things (watching your diet, repairing relationships, both performing and instigating acts of charity and kindness, spending a day blind, researching the life of a living hero, etc) are not martial skills, and should not (IMO) be considered as such.

I'll agree with Kwan on most points here... I think it helps make you a well rounded person. Alot of non-martial skills, but I think it helps with your character. I've heard alot of martial artist say that MA helps children develop character and become better adults. Shouldn't the same thing be true for adults? Or are MA simply learning how to beat someone up? I've heard it said that the best master is one that does not need to beat someone up. Things like in this program I think help develop that skill...

Now, that being said... would I pay 10k for this program? I doubt it. I would not hire a trainer at the gym either. Thats just how I am. I can understand people who want to though. I'm sure its a life changing experience and most people would not have the discipline to do it w/out some form of structure. If you can do that, then more power to you.

 

[Tez3]

Another thing I'd be interested in knowing would be is this a male thing? To be honest it's hard enough sometimes being a woman blackbelt or just a woman in martial arts sometimes without yet more pressure. That regime isn't designed for women is it?

 

[mrhnau]

Another thing I'd be interested in knowing would be is this a male thing? To be honest it's hard enough sometimes being a woman blackbelt or just a woman in martial arts sometimes without yet more pressure. That regime isn't designed for women is it?

Check the web page. I looked at the groups. I saw about 1/5 or 1/6 being female. I wonder if that is proportinal to the amount of women in martial arts?

 

[Tez3]

Check the web page. I looked at the groups. I saw about 1/5 or 1/6 being female. I wonder if that is proportinal to the amount of women in martial arts?

In traditional martial arts I would have said that is a very low proportion of women. In MMA there are very few of us. In the UK there is probably as few as 20 of us who train MMA.