OP
OP
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Apathy is as apathy does.
UK Warned: CIA Will Access All Government Data
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granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
the Bonds of this world peeking at each other's undies...meh, whatever.
Chances are it affects me as much as a sack of rice tipping over in China.
The subject they should spy on they don't anyhow, like wtf is going on with gas prices...2 cents down 20 cents up....and it ain't China's fault.
things I try to get upset about are things that will affect us in the long run, at the base level
And if you thought world politics ever gave a crap about the base, you are delusional. Or that the bottom line for the base is ever affected...on a grand scale...unless of course your house sits attop an oilfield...
here is something that should get your dander up, and you can actually influence it:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/nationa...n-carriages-from-urban-roads.premium-1.501656
radical animal rights activists chisseling away on our options.
naturally they found a nag for the picture, but when people live in poverty, horses are too. (I am sure ther is a political angle there as well, but th list of supporters for the ban is a who-is-who of PETA, HSUS and the rest of the militant vegans...yes, they are after that steak on your grill, and they will get you, Pretty, and your little doggy, too!)
so the CIA playing cloak and dagger with the MI5 or 6, and the Mossad, KGB heirs, the Germans and French...pft....it's no accident they call the place 'the cloud'
The way that horses are treated in the Middle East is appalling, tbh the Israelis would be correct to ban those horses working. These aren't the tourist carriages of America I'm afraid. It's also not true that the people who use these horses are living in poverty, care of animals is something they simply don't bother with. It isn't radical organisations that are pushing to ban this it's ordinary people and for good reason. Just because PETA has petitioned the Israeli government doesn't make them wrong in this case.
http://www.pegasus-israel.org/72414/About
http://www.pegasus-israel.org/72414/About
OP
OP
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
I think this goes a little bit beyond the standard "Cloak & Dagger" affair, but apparently others do not.
Just remember, regardless of what belief system you subscribe to; you reap what you sow. Be it through action or inaction.
I suppose if you guys are okay with it over there it's no skin off my hump. LOL
Just remember, regardless of what belief system you subscribe to; you reap what you sow. Be it through action or inaction.
I suppose if you guys are okay with it over there it's no skin off my hump. LOL
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
no, radicals shall never have a say so in the legal process.
yes, the treatment sucks. much of the reason behind it is the people do not know better.
but educating people is expensive and time consuming.
And PETA does not want that anyhow.
I am all for better treatment for the animals, but not when the people do not live any better.
it's not for the welfare of the animals.
Once they are banned from working, what value will they have to the owners?
Where will they go?
Or rather how will they be killed.
There are groups of dedicated horse people on the ground working for the improvement of the lives of the animals, by teaching the people who own them how it is done and how it impacts their own lives in a positive manner.
you never put the fox in charge of the hen house!
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Spy on PETA and HSUS, because they are really out to get you.
Well, what did you expect on here? A rant and name calling as per all the other threads on here that go on about political subjects? Us huffing and puffing about how it's not good enough etc? This is t'internet, it's of little importance in the scale of things, Why should we get angry on here just because you think we should? Are you waiting for us to breakdown and cry or something? We aren't here for you to yank our chains for your enjoyment. You don't like the posts, it makes no difference to us.
It was Israelis not radical outsiders who campaigned against the use of horses in this manner. Israelis don't take kindly to outsiders telling them waht to do so while PETA may have contacted the Israelis, the decision wouldn't have been made with their imput. that horses will be looked after at sanctuaries like Pegasus as they are now, education and welfare have been ongoing for many years. The Arabs use horses and donkeys because they are cheap and easily to obtain, it's not in their interest to actually treat them well. My mother was very concerned when she was there for these animals.
http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2012/1/23/a-donkey-and-horse-safe-haven-in-israel.html
http://www.zoenature.org/2012/06/donkey-rescuer-at-queens-garden-party/
http://dawn.com/2011/02/22/israelis-and-palestinians-rescue-needy-donkeys/
http://m.clevelandjewishnews.com/mobile/news/local/article_644ab8d0-9f63-11e1-9cef-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.thebrooke.org/our-work/?a=46976
these are the people the Israeli govenment will have listend to.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
THE CHAI advisory board is full with NYC city folk and PETA personal...
not to mention 'Vegetarians' and Vegans'
Opportunistic parasites they are they just achieved a victory.
it's not good for the people, nor the animals, but PETA does not care.
it' not like 'government' thinks it all the way through either. California just put a law into effect that makes animal control not only enforcer but also judge. really messed up piece of work when you look at it with critical eyes.
http://www.gambiahorseanddonkey.org.uk/
this is how you deal with working horses in a certain cultural and socio-economic context.
There is a group like that working in Egypt.
PETA does not want human-animal interaction. That's the small print on their banners.
they run one (yes ONE) shelter in the US, with an adoption rate of 1%. One in one hundred. 89% of animals are euthanized, the otehr 10% of anmials are transferred to other shelters, non of them a no-kill facility. So in all likelihood those 10% were killed, too.
Animal welfare is not their agenda.
Maybe I should learn how to spy in the cloud....I am sure they are conspiring there as well.
Chai's advisory board are made up of well respected Jewish notables who aren't going to be swayed by radical posturing. To have had Isaac Bashevis Singer on your board is beyond astounding it's truly remarkable and deeply impressive. Chai works on what you would call Biblical terms so while you may have people from PETA on the board it doesn't mean to say they have more of a say than anyone else, to sit on a board, any board with Jews is a lively event and when you have Rabbis as well, I can only say that it would be very interesting.
I think you have to accept that what Israelis see and live with everyday means that their decision to ban these carts is a wise one, I know my mother would have been pleased.
I think you have to accept that what Israelis see and live with everyday means that their decision to ban these carts is a wise one, I know my mother would have been pleased.
OP
OP
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
No, they're out to get your pets.
Well sometimes you do wonder why people are allowed to keep animals.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/31/animalwelfare.animalbehaviour
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
I will read the article later...
however raising the bar to unatainable levels is not helping.
I have been beating my head against the wall for a while now. The writing is on the wall.
Yes, some people should not have a pet rock, but a growing number of people are facing problems with zealous enforcers now that clearly overstep their bounds.
And said groups do try to sneak legislation through the essemblies that make it impossible to keep animals.
Hopping in as tore right quick and leaving your dog tied to the bike rack? Not a good idea.
not having shelter up for your horses 24/7? Oh, you are going in front of the judge. Innocuous wording gets the good people all the time.
Bad people? Well, they didn't care to begin with....Oh, ad HSUS has been shooting down animal protection legislation, just because they didn't think it up.
PETA bucking for limitless police powers to confiscate animals....
Trust me...they are a louse you don't want in your pelt, ever.
The law will get the horses off the streets alright...turned lose in the desert or simply killed - by any means possible. Might not be pretty, but those nags just became a liability for people who couldn't afford to buy a truck to begin with....bad news.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Probably the only thing we will ever disagree on.
But PETA connections are always tainted and never respectable.
Somebody made the connection of the recent influx of horse meat into the mainstream food chain (Tesco burgers etc, latest was their lasagna ready meals with up to 100% horse...) with the recent legislation that took horses off the roads of Rumania....
I take your word for it that the Rabbis are respectable.
Color my cynical, but respectable does not mean a thing to me....it is a great cover for doing evil.
And for playing with PETA, the gentlemen need some ritual cleansing....you sleep with dogs you get fleas.
But you forgot another little smidgeon in the sordid mess: vegetarians....
yes, the lifestyle in itself is peaceful and benign....in context with the prevailing Animal Rights activists they become a prosetelyzing bunch of zealots....
I know I am starting to sound like billie and his democrat rants.....but this is too important!
(BTW, PETA has been linked to groups like ALF and ELF, by now classified pretty much as terrorists...or very kindred in spirit)
OP
OP
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
:fart:
The horse meat 'scandal' is being looked at into as a criminal case not connected to the Romanian traffic laws. Europe as you know as always eaten horse meat, the Romania says the horse meat which left them was labelled as such and was legal. Somewhere along the line the labels were 'lost' and the horse meat was sold as beef. Beef is five times the price of horse meat.
PETA and the other organisations don't work much outside the US and when they do they aren't a radical organistion, perhaps we Brits aren't the radicalising type. Nothing they do here is either illegal or actually unsound. We've had a few low key raids on laboratories that use animals for testing by persons unknown but frankly thats fine with most people, animals shouldn't be used for testing. Most companies here won't test on animals as they know people won't buy their products. Veal isn't sold here anymore as people won't buy it because of the way it's produced, it wasn't banned people just didn't buy it. Framers are now trying to sell 'rose' veal which is calf meat from animals raised naturally.
We've never had any problems with vegetarians, it's not considered particularly odd in a nation of odd people, the Linda McCartney range of food sells well here and that's as much as we ever hear about veggies. perhaps Americans really do do things bigger when it comes to everything lol even animal welfare protestors! :uhyeah:
PETA and the other organisations don't work much outside the US and when they do they aren't a radical organistion, perhaps we Brits aren't the radicalising type. Nothing they do here is either illegal or actually unsound. We've had a few low key raids on laboratories that use animals for testing by persons unknown but frankly thats fine with most people, animals shouldn't be used for testing. Most companies here won't test on animals as they know people won't buy their products. Veal isn't sold here anymore as people won't buy it because of the way it's produced, it wasn't banned people just didn't buy it. Framers are now trying to sell 'rose' veal which is calf meat from animals raised naturally.
We've never had any problems with vegetarians, it's not considered particularly odd in a nation of odd people, the Linda McCartney range of food sells well here and that's as much as we ever hear about veggies. perhaps Americans really do do things bigger when it comes to everything lol even animal welfare protestors! :uhyeah:
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Tez, be warned.
The PETA folk do work all over the world. Them popping up in the Israel law should tell you they have their fingers in every pie. They are everywhere, already.
I don't really care what people eat. It's their private matter.
PETA however, and their brothers in suits, the HSUS - Humane Society of the United States - are all about veganism and that nobody is to use animals - not even as companions. They said it in the past, they jetset around the world to 'consult'
The radical actions are always 'just the actions a o a few' blah blah blah, not connected...yada yada...PETA has been linked with ALF and LF terrorists, paying their legal fees...I am guessing Europeans do not allow much of their radical speech as we do in the states.
The Rumanian laws had nothing to do with the criminal activities putting horse as beef in the meals, true, but a lot of horses got suddenly unemployed and useless, probably making horse pretty cheap, thus tempting to substitute with.
But that is pretty much the point. No animals to worry about.
To these groups it is preferable for the animals to be dead that 'enslaved'
These guys are NOT animal welfare, they are animal rights all the way. The are working more or less quietly behind the scenes to stop animal use, not abuse.
They do work against legislation if they did not have a hand in it, too.
We have a Romanian au pair who trains with us, she says they have always eaten horse and their traffic laws haven't made any difference. Horses are cheap in Romania and not looked after well as they are easy to get hold of. perhaps being dead is better than being so mistreated you would wish you were dead, life shouldn't be at any cost. It's still a very backwards country, they way they treat handicapped and disabled children is very worrying, they have a long way to get to the 21st century.
PETA here is quite low key, it campaigns on things we do actually worry about such as the badger cull here and bear baiting in Turkey, we don't have veggies or vegans rampaging around either, they don't break any laws nor do they have a hand in making any new ones. I'm not sticking up for them but in Europe they are low key and legal, they have a low profile. If they were allied to terrorists or looked to being that way, we would know. In the UK it has 5000 supporters.
I've read some of the pros and against on the internet they are all American and sound, both sides, like the arguments in the gun and abortions issues, strident, hysterical and name calling. makes my head ache!
I'm sure you are right about the American PETA but until they do similiar things here we can't say much against them as there is little to say against them!
PETA here is quite low key, it campaigns on things we do actually worry about such as the badger cull here and bear baiting in Turkey, we don't have veggies or vegans rampaging around either, they don't break any laws nor do they have a hand in making any new ones. I'm not sticking up for them but in Europe they are low key and legal, they have a low profile. If they were allied to terrorists or looked to being that way, we would know. In the UK it has 5000 supporters.
I've read some of the pros and against on the internet they are all American and sound, both sides, like the arguments in the gun and abortions issues, strident, hysterical and name calling. makes my head ache!
I'm sure you are right about the American PETA but until they do similiar things here we can't say much against them as there is little to say against them!
OP
OP
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
:s459:-sigh...
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